Build or buy a 1911??

[thebabybrahma]

I would like to have another 1911. Kinda thinking that it would be fun to build one with quality parts. would it be more cost effective to buy one from Les Baer,Ed Brown, etc. or build your own? Don't want a real highend show piece, just something to carry and shoot and get to say that I put it together.

[Raoul]

I've been toying with the same idea. It won't be cheap to build a nice one based on the prices I'm seeing.

[MacGyver]

It's not cheap, as you have a fair bit of tooling cost in addition to thecost of quality parts to consider. A 1911 requires a lot of hand fitting, and to do it well, takes some knowledge and the experience that comes from having screwed up a fair number of parts.

It's doable, though. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.

[Dave Shooter]

You can cheat a bit and start with a short block. One example is:

1911 AUTO PRE-FIT SLIDE/FRAME/BARREL KIT - Brownells

[LngRngShtr]

Fusion firearms also makes "short blocks" but several options..

thinking of a 6" hicap 10mm maybe someday

[nightrunner]

This is something id love to be able to do someday but i bet the learning curve on hand fitting the parts is very steep

[Loon160T]

It's not cheap, as you have a fair bit of tooling cost in addition to thecost of quality parts to consider. A 1911 requires a lot of hand fitting, and to do it well, takes some knowledge and the experience that comes from having screwed up a fair number of parts.

It's doable, though. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.

It's a worthy goal but I think it might be cost prohibitive. A pistolsmith I know has several thousand dollars tied up in equipment.

[MacGyver]

It's a worthy goal but I think it might be cost prohibitive. A pistolsmith I know has several thousand dollars tied up in equipment.

To do it right, you're definitely going to have to spend some money. And, you'd be foolish to think that you could even come close to approximating the work of someone who has had the opportunity to learn from years of experience.

That said, I'm an engineer at the genetic level. The process is often worth as much to me as the finished product.

[Ropin4gold]

I looked into building my brother and I matching 1911 Commanders on Caspian frames with consecutive serial numbers. By the time I viewed the cart on the brownells website, I could have bought (2) Baers, ED Browns, or Wilsons.......... Needless to say I didn't build.

[Guest 577Endfield]

I have build 3 Fusion 1911's with various configurations. It is not the cheap route to go. Each gun will average $1000 in parts and 40-60 hrs of fitting. Nice guns and good on the range. I could have bought Wilson Combat or Baer for less if I had not been experienced with and had a shop. Buy an entry level gun, Springfield or Kimber and enjoy. My favorite I shoot is the Kimber 22 cal 1911.

[TNWNGR]

Is it less expensive to purchase the custom pistol you want? Yes. To do thing's right take's experence which you can gain. A lot of "junker's" and older imported pistol's have been rebuilt by "home gunsmith's" for the learning experence. I don't mind doing minor upgrades or part swap's but tend to avoid any more than that.

[enfield]

I've done it, 30 years ago. It's possible to build a perfectly functional 1911 from gun show parts. I don't know that it's economical compared to buying a basic RIA 1911 (when I did it, there were no inexpensive 1911's - Colt or Detonics, that was it), but you still get the learning experience. You don't need Brown or Baer parts to build a functional pistol. There is no relationship between cost and quality. There IS a relationship between cost and brand.

[Guest NashvegasMatt]

I would like to have another 1911. Kinda thinking that it would be fun to build one with quality parts. would it be more cost effective to buy one from Les Baer,Ed Brown, etc. or build your own? Don't want a real highend show piece, just something to carry and shoot and get to say that I put it together.

i guess this question depends on how much smithing experience you have. If you can do the work, of course you'll get a deal... but if you have to take it somewhere to have the MSH, slide, and barrel fitted, say goodbye to the savings.

[leroy]

This may stir up a pretty big hornet's nest; but i just cant help myself. I'm old enough to remember the time when there was one 1911 type pistol. It was a colt. All mine, from the first norwegan, to an old military, to the latter colt series 70 pistols would shoot reliably and would meet the 4" standard (...2"' from aiming point...) at 25 yards that the military uses today. The only one of them that was ever worked on was the military, which had the frame peened (...by me....) to tighten up the slide/frame fit. It still had the old military barrel in it.

In those distant days, the way you got a "custom" gun that shot better than that 4 inch thing was to wrap your government model in several hundred bucks and send it off to a "custom gunsmith". You waited about 6 or so months and the pistol returned, tuned up and prettied up of course (....to the extent of the dollars ya sent down...) and would generally shoot into 2 inches at 25 yards. I dont know about most of you all; but i cant hold much better than 2 to 4 inches at 25 yards. I understand that some of the bullseye guys can; but i (...and i believe, lots of other dedicated shooters...) simply cant do it.

Today things are different. You can buy most any off the shelf 1911 by most any maker and get in the 2" or so range at 25 yards range pretty easy. This is due (...i think...) to the CNC machining revolution. The new 1911's are tighter and shoot better because the parts are made on better machine tooling. I think that the greatest secret that has been kept in the 1911 cottage industry is that the tooling is better, and that makes the pistols better. We can quibble about the assembly by a good gunsmith that brings you into the 2" at 50 yards range. That's a bunch better than i can hold; and i am confident that it's better than the other 95+% of pistoleros can hold as well.

My advice to anyone who would like a nice 1911 (...and who wouldnt...) is to take a good look at any of the 1911 folks (...i like STI--The Spartan...) and pick the one you like off the shelf. If you absolutely have to have a "custom" 1911; save your money up, get the pile big enough, and go buy what ya can afford. I'm like Ebenezer Schrooge at heart; i simply cannot bring myself to buy a 1911 that costs over about 600 bucks or so; but that's just me. I remember when a colt government model cost $300 and a Colt Gold Cup cost $500. The reason that a Gold Cup cost $500 was that it had target sights (...which are the best thing you can do to a 1911 in my opinion. Sights are worth the money....) and that the colt factory assemblers matched slides to frames by trying them and gettin the best fit in the pile of slides and frames they were working on at the time.

I know alot of this sounds like "custom gun" hating and bashing; but that aint what im trying to do here. I am a genuine Laze Faire Capitalist and i firmly believe that you should be free to buy what ever you want to buy at the price you are willing to pay. All im sayin is that there has been a quiet revolution in the firearms industry that has made firearms a bunch better and no one has said much about it. That revolution was the use of CNC tooling to build parts. Most off the shelf stuff is better today than lots of custom stuff was 40 or so years ago, and it requires far less "hand fitting". The guys that have built their rep on "custom" products wont volunteer this kind of stuff to you; but make no mistake, it is the heart of the new 1911 (...and AR...) revolution in quality and performance.

leroy

Edited December 27, 2011 by leroy

[enfield]

I used an off-the-shelf (or out of the bucket) barrel and GI slide and no fitting was required. I did have to hand polish one side of the hammer to relieve a slight binding condition, but that was the only hand-fitting required on my pistol. It was not a nightmare to assemble, far from it, and the only thing I needed a gunsmith for was to stake the plunger tube to the frame. I was too cheap to buy the tool for one use.

You don't have to be a gunsmith to build one, and it's possible to build one out of a bag of miscellaneous parts, assuming you can still find all of the parts.

If RIA can make a functional 1911 for $400 (or whatever they sell for), what are you getting in a $2000 Ed Brown? A name, a pretty finish, and probably a little more accuracy. I'd rather put my $2000 to other uses.

[Dave Shooter]

What do you get for those higher end guns? Top quality parts hopefully assembled with great skill to give you a reliable gun that will last a long time.

I've never owned an Ed Brown so can't speak to them personally.

But I've had a high cap 1911 (not built in the US) that I'd call "medium quality" that in the first 1000 rounds:

broke it's bushing

had the extractor lose tension

broke it's firing pin stop

slide stop pin became noticably bent

screw on the adjustable rear sight fell out

front sight became loose in it's dovetail

On the other hand I have a built to order higher end high cap 1911 that has over 40,000 rounds through it, zero parts fail (including extractor), and locks up as tight as when I got it.

Don't get me wrong, many of the "lower end" 1911s are tremendous bargains, but some manufacturers still cut corners in places that can affect reliablity.

[E4 No More]

I used an off-the-shelf (or out of the bucket) barrel and GI slide and no fitting was required. I did have to hand polish one side of the hammer to relieve a slight binding condition, but that was the only hand-fitting required on my pistol. It was not a nightmare to assemble, far from it, and the only thing I needed a gunsmith for was to stake the plunger tube to the frame. I was too cheap to buy the tool for one use.

You don't have to be a gunsmith to build one, and it's possible to build one out of a bag of miscellaneous parts, assuming you can still find all of the parts.

If RIA can make a functional 1911 for $400 (or whatever they sell for), what are you getting in a $2000 Ed Brown? A name, a pretty finish, and probably a little more accuracy. I'd rather put my $2000 to other uses.

What you get in an Ed Brown, (and other high end smiths), is higher quality parts and treatment of said parts that are professionally fitted. As Leroy said, that doesn't matter to many folks: however, to me I was paying for a weapon that I could completely rely upon to last through copious amounts of +P rounds.

As far as the OP is concerned, Ed Brown sells a Bench Manual of CD that would help you fit the parts: Ed Brown Products, 1911, parts?

[Major Kong]

I just ordered one of the 1911 kits in 10mm from Fusion Firearms. They send it with the frame, slide and barrel fitting already done and you do the rest of the build yourself. I see a couple of advantages in it.

First, I'm going to learn a little more about guns.

Second, I'm not going to waste factory parts and time and money customizing a factory gun to be the way I want it. It will be my way right off the bat.

Third, though I'm not sure yet, I think I'll be able to get a custom quality 1911 for less than a custom price.