Over penetration. Really?

[BrasilNuts]

Nope. But I'm also not going to let you shoot a BB gun off in my direction, either.

I didn't think so.

[strickj]

You know what they say about fat chicks........ they keep you warm in the winter, give you shade in the summer and its obvious they can cook.

Handgun rounds, non-expanding round nose ammo, lower extremities at unknown distance and handgun, fmj upper torso, within 15 feet. About as detailed as I can get.

Alright. I'll take your word on it.

So it can happen. Do you happen to know the distance between the to two persons?

[Jonsaiga]

Alright. I'll take your word on it.

So it can happen. Do you happen to know the distance between the to two persons?

Less than 10' in both cases.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I'd be more afraid of missing my target and hitting an innocent bystander than I would a round overpenetrating. Unless you're using armor piercing rounds, I don't believe you have much to worry about, but just to be on the safe side, I bought a 165 gr hollow point speer for my CZ, instead of a 180 gr hollow point round or FMJ, logic would suggest a lighter object can travel faster and farther, but it won't have as much oomph behind it when it impacts,....but physics (something I'm not real savvy at and not by any means good at) might suggest otherwise.

[Makiaveli]

I'd be more afraid of missing my target and hitting an innocent bystander than I would a round overpenetrating. Unless you're using armor piercing rounds, I don't believe you have much to worry about, but just to be on the safe side, I bought a 165 gr hollow point speer for my CZ, instead of a 180 gr hollow point round or FMJ, logic would suggest a lighter object can travel faster and farther, but it won't have as much oomph behind it when it impacts,....but physics (something I'm not real savvy at and not by any means good at) might suggest otherwise.

Well less mass and higher speed might balance each other out, but a smaller bullet is more likely to not survive the trip through the target I would think.....

Or am I completely in left field?

[Guest WyattEarp]

Well less mass and higher speed might balance each other out, but a smaller bullet is more likely to not survive the trip through the target I would think.....

Or am I completely in left field?

I don't know, im not a physics guru, so I'm just trying to reason it out logically. I guess there could be other factors, such as the balance, the velocity, but I'd think weight/mass and speed would all play into it somehow.

too much math for me, im math stupid, taking photos and creating web pages is my M.O.

[Jonnin]

Well less mass and higher speed might balance each other out, but a smaller bullet is more likely to not survive the trip through the target I would think.....Or am I completely in left field?

Left field. This is where bullet design comes into play, as well as velocity, and other stuff. A 223 soft point will just about vaporize in some situations, a .22 LR FMJ is very likely to be in 1 piece. A 44 mag hollow point will break into 2-3 pieces, a 44 mag FMJ will probably remain intact under most impacts with soft targets. Its more of a factor of the jacket, hollow point or not (the expanding designs rip and bend the copper and lead, sometimes breakng up), shape (a long thin 223 hitting something sideways will cut itself in half, a .45 acp that is closer to a sphere will not, even if you evened out the energy levels). There are many variables here too but thick, well bonded jackets hold a well made bullet together, thin cheap jackets will just peel off, lead will shatter or tear or flatten depending on what it hit, how hard, and at what angle, how hard/pure the lead is, and more. Size of the bullet matters but its just one of many, many things that affect this.

[nightrunner]

I would think a larger caliber heavier bullet would dump most of its energy in the target and have little if any left to go. Completely through.

[Makiaveli]

Left field. This is where bullet design comes into play, as well as velocity, and other stuff. A 223 soft point will just about vaporize in some situations, a .22 LR FMJ is very likely to be in 1 piece. A 44 mag hollow point will break into 2-3 pieces, a 44 mag FMJ will probably remain intact under most impacts with soft targets. Its more of a factor of the jacket, hollow point or not (the expanding designs rip and bend the copper and lead, sometimes breakng up), shape (a long thin 223 hitting something sideways will cut itself in half, a .45 acp that is closer to a sphere will not, even if you evened out the energy levels). There are many variables here too but thick, well bonded jackets hold a well made bullet together, thin cheap jackets will just peel off, lead will shatter or tear or flatten depending on what it hit, how hard, and at what angle, how hard/pure the lead is, and more. Size of the bullet matters but its just one of many, many things that affect this.

Good point...I totally spaced on that. Thanks for the info

[Jonnin]

I would think a larger caliber heavier bullet would dump most of its energy in the target and have little if any left to go. Completely through.

Its the other way around. Light, fast movers dump energy (mostly made up from velocity!) rapidly, which loweres their momentum (measure of how hard an object is to stop...) rapidly. Heavy rounds retain momentum better (more of it is stored in the mass part) and have less velocity to lose. The only easy way I know of to test this is if you are a reloader... you could do something like compare 9mm or 357 with the lightest and heaviest bullets with similar energy values, the heavy one would go through more stuff. Or just think about this: would you rather catch a baseball thrown at 100 mph or a bowling ball moving along the ground at 15 mph? (reall sloppy approximations but a 5 oz baseball @ 100 is around 3k units and a 15 pounder at 15 is around 3k units -- its not foot pounds, since I left it in pounds an mph instead of slugs & fps, so its rough but Im lazy). Edited December 9, 2011 by Jonnin

[TMF]

(reall sloppy approximations but a 5 oz baseball @ 100 is around 3k units and a 15 pounder at 15 is around 3k units -- its not foot pounds, since I left it in pounds an mph instead of slugs & fps, so its rough but Im lazy).

You made my head hurt.

[Makiaveli]

You made my head hurt.

Apparently you understood more of it than me then.

I mean I am smart, but never was any good with math once we stopped using +-/*

[Guest pfries]

Its the other way around. Light, fast movers dump energy (mostly made up from velocity!) rapidly, which loweres their momentum (measure of how hard an object is to stop...) rapidly. Heavy rounds retain momentum better (more of it is stored in the mass part) and have less velocity to lose. The only easy way I know of to test this is if you are a reloader... you could do something like compare 9mm or 357 with the lightest and heaviest bullets with similar energy values, the heavy one would go through more stuff. Or just think about this: would you rather catch a baseball thrown at 100 mph or a bowling ball moving along the ground at 15 mph? (reall sloppy approximations but a 5 oz baseball @ 100 is around 3k units and a 15 pounder at 15 is around 3k units -- its not foot pounds, since I left it in pounds an mph instead of slugs & fps, so its rough but Im lazy).

I would agree, for those of you saying your head hurts. Think of it like this. If you bolted steel plate to the back of a small car and threw that 5 ounce baseball at it, how much would the car move?

Now take a bowling ball and throw it at it at 15 miles an hour, and how much would the car move?

That may give a better visualization for you.

[jtmaze]

That's a myth too. It's never happened.... though, there are guys on the internets that will lay claim

First thing I thought was have y'all been talking to my wife. Lol. She would probably say I wish.

JTM🔫

Sent from my iPhone

[TMF]

I would agree, for those of you saying your head hurts. Think of it like this. If you bolted steel plate to the back of a small car and threw that 5 ounce baseball at it, how much would the car move?

Now take a bowling ball and throw it at it at 15 miles an hour, and how much would the car move?

That may give a better visualization for you.

Not that I had terrible grades in physics, but I smoked a lot of weed in those days and I think that may have cancelled out my retention of certain formulas regarding inertia.

[Jonnin]

sorry, I tried to keep it short, simple & easy to understand. But everyone keeps asking complex questions, makes it hard to keep it light.

[peejman]

I would agree, for those of you saying your head hurts. Think of it like this. If you bolted steel plate to the back of a small car and threw that 5 ounce baseball at it, how much would the car move?

Now take a bowling ball and throw it at it at 15 miles an hour, and how much would the car move?

That may give a better visualization for you.

If they have the same energy and both stick, the car moves exactly the same amount. Energy is energy whether it's mostly mass or mostly velocity.

If they bounce off, it gets a touch more complicated. If someone really wants to know, I'll do the math. Coefficient of restitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Makiaveli]

sorry, I tried to keep it short, simple & easy to understand. But everyone keeps asking complex questions, makes it hard to keep it light.

It was fine, got the point across. I was just kidding around, though I never got past algebra in HS, and faked it in college.