Udall, Webb Amendment Fails to Pass Senate

[daddyo]

This is serious, folks. If ODumbo signs this into law without this important amendment in place, then any one of us can be declared "terrorists" and be imprisoned indefinitely (read "for life") by the US government:

National Security at Risk as Udall, Webb Amendment Fails to Pass Senate | Human Rights First

Alexander and Corker voted AGAINST the amendment.

Welcome to Nazi America.

[leroy]

I agree. This is the only issue i ever remember siding with the ACLU on. We are very busy circumventing the Constitution and turning things right back to the "Old World", where government can push ya around without benefit of due process. This kind of stuff started the Revolutionary War.

leroy

[BrasilNuts]

And will likely cause another.

[Guest mikedwood]

More than scary that they would just POOF the 4th.

More concerning that our state senators would love the idea. (I didn't even have to look to see where Alexander and Corker stood on it. I looked anyway and yeah they seem to love it)

Most concerning is that 2008's Republican pick that "You have to vote for him or Obama will get in" John McCain in the video below appears to be almost crying to get this bill passed, while understanding that Americans can be detained if they pose a threat to the USA. What's a threat? My idea of a threat or TSA's view of a threat?

Rand Paul (The son of a canidate most say has no chance) stands up to this and like his father stands for liberty.

In the video below Rand Paul seems to almost make McCain either mad enough to fight or break down in tears.

Sen. Rand Paul and Sen. McCain speak on Detainees on Senate Floor - 11/29/11 - YouTube

In the Video below Rand Paul give a statement on the bill

Sen. Rand Paul Defends American Citizens Against Indefinite Detainment - YouTube

[daddyo]

How does the government determine who is an "enemy combatant"? WHO gets to decide? Would you be deemed an "enemy combatant" simply for holding certain views that the government considers a "national security risk"?

This bill completely does away with the 4th Amendment, and should enrage every single one of us. If they can do it that easily, what's to stop them from removing the rest of our constitutional freedoms?

[Oh Shoot]

Though the USD may indeed crash and god knows the result, I've been much less concerned with all that that the accelerated threat to personal liberty that O's admin has represented. And now, to see much of the GOP as part of the same threat is indeed even more scary.

- OS

[Kenstaroni]

By passing this in a nut shell they are declaring war on American citizens which is treason. Terrorism is a tactic and a war on such can never be won, thus this would suspend citizens rights for an indefinite amount of time. Absolutely unacceptable. It seems like all the real important bills are passed in the dark of night. Interesting how that works.

[Guest mikedwood]

Put this with the bills they have passed about the internet and want to pass about the internet and I think what's coming up will look like John Carpenter, Tom Clancy and Alex Jones conspired to make a mini series together.

[mikegideon]

I agree. This is the only issue i ever remember siding with the ACLU on. We are very busy circumventing the Constitution and turning things right back to the "Old World", where government can push ya around without benefit of due process. This kind of stuff started the Revolutionary War.

leroy

Yep. That could wind up being our SHTF scenario.

[Kenstaroni]

Bill passed 93-7...now to Obama's desk for his signature. This is the most in patriotic piece of legislation ever passed....truly upsetting.

[Mike.357]

the more pissed the general populace becomes the more worried the chosen ones become about how to remain in power.

All this legislation does is broaden the reach of their foot on citizens necks.

Exactly their intent.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And I wonder what will happen...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest mikedwood]

Yet a lot of you guys are telling me that if Ron Paul loses I need to blindly vote for them? LOOK WHO VOTED YAY ON IT!!!! (Yes I'm yelling over here)

Then again Rand blocked another yet worse amendment. Apparently when he called for the vote some lost their nerve apparently. So there is a bright spot. Of course it's another Paul but who's counting?

Press Release: C4L Stands With Rand | Campaign for Liberty

Rand stands up for liberty like he's ordering a Big Mac or something.

Edited December 3, 2011 by mikedwood

[G27]

Good thing the good, constitution-respecting repubs didn't support this!

Oh, wait...

It's time to clean house.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Mikedwood, I can't bring myself to be one to let Obama steal the presidency again, but I share your

concern. If this bill can do what I understand, the people inside the beltway know so much more than

we do and they are not ever going to tell us. That means our country is on the precipice. DC may be

getting ready for something and leaving us in the dark. We may be facing our own guns, those our taxes

paid for. If that's the case, the only thing left is to let enough people suffer until they see no other recourse

than to start shooting back. Probably tinfoil, huh? I don't know, either, but I do know as mad as I am at

Fincher for just one vote, Alexander and Corker have blown my gasket.

When I absorb more of this bill, I may be squarely in your camp. got room?

I've liked Ron Paul for a long time and very much respect his son. Rand could be/is presidential. I wish either

would be able to capture enough of the populace to become president. I'll leave it at that. Too much is

changing too fast right now.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As much as most of us hate the current legal system, not justice system, it is still far better than what is about to start happening. I believe this will pass but not because people want it but because our representatives no longer listen to us and now want a way to control us.

They already have a list of US citizens that the government wants to detain, they just need the legal justification for it. And when this passes, and it will, we will see and hear about the rush to detain them all. Hopefully during this time people will stand up and not just go hide hoping they won't be next.

And something else to realize. It is not only detention those who are detained will have to worry about. It is the tactics and techniques that are going to be used to investigate. Without due process innocent US citizens may be subjected to same treatment as those who we know are our enemies.

What really scares me is who is determining who the enemy of the state is? Are you going to be considered a domestic terrorist if you do not support those currently in power? Or if people are going to be getting hauled off in the middle of the night because of what a neighbor tells the local government about you?

Sounds suspicously familiar to how things were 70-80 years ago in a country we once fought. I wonder who, if anyone, will come to our country's aid in its time of need?

We are stuck voting for the lesser of two evils anymore. No longer are we allowed to vote for what we want. We are only allowed to vote on what those is power let us vote on. This goes along with everything else I have said and that is those in power want to control those who aren't. And when they can't control they will villainize.

Dolomite

[TM01]

We lost control of the ship long before this bill passed in Congress. History is and should be the worlds greatest teacher but it is the most forgotten facet when it comes to using hindsight to prevent mistakes. Unfortunately this society we have in America is well on the way to falling just as every other great civilization in history. The reason is as simple as it gets. Man as a being becomes lustful, greedy and self serving the more power he is granted. This country has been eaten alive from the inside out and all that is left is a hollow shell. This does not mean that the average citizen is corrupt. We as most other slave forces have been duped is all.

Other countries have that see what we have not for years laugh at us because of our general vanity and selfish lifestyle. Those that really run this country have kept the majority of us in a posh existence in order to keep us happy little workers that keep generating money and wealth for our keepers. Now that the ship is starting to sink we have begun to see more and more control measures being enacted so that as it gets worse, we can easily be plucked out of the collective and out away somewhere else so that we do not disturb or aggravate the rest of society. The final chapters are being written. I am curious to see how much farther and faster this type of population control will grow.

I am not the smartest man by far in any circumstance but as the saying goes..."Don't piss down my back and tell me it's just rain" Our apathy as a nation has gotten us here. I wonder if it is to late to climb back out.

[wjh2657]

While the Second Constitutional Convention was meeting the French revolution was getting underway. By the time the new “Constitutional Congress” met in 1789, aristocrats were being hung and decapitated in France by the public mobs. Many of our founding fathers had good friends among the unfortunates being executed. Some of the most prominent founding fathers had lived in France (Thomas Jefferson, John Adams,John Quincy Adams and Benjamin Franklin, among them) and were actually quite attached to the Aristocracy of France.

Shay’s Rebellion and several other violent public uprisingshad occurred in this country during this same time period and had to be putdown by troops.

All of this led to distrust by the ruling elite for the “Masses”(meaning the public, in short, most of us.)

Go to www.walthofman.com and read it in their own words ( The Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers). They wrote the Constitution to contain and prevent Democracy not to further it. The“Mob Rule” as they had seen in France later confirmed to them that they had made the right decision.

The Insurrection Act (1807) laid down the ground work and is now part of U.S. Law even today as 10 USC 333. The incorporation of the provisions of this act into the Appropriation Bills (which become Public Law) is a move to make sure that using troops within the U.S. can be financed with some legal basis (President’s actions are in accordance with “an act of Congress” as stated in para. 2( of 10 USC 333). This incorporation has been going on for several decades now, so we have actually been living “under the gun” for quite awhile.

We are currently in a period of public unrest, with public demonstrations increasing. The government ( read: the two political parties) is going to tighten its hold on the “unwashed masses” to prevent civil interference with the government.

Edited December 3, 2011 by wjh2657
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[Guest jackdm3]

While the Second Constitutional Convention was meeting the French revolution was getting underway. By the time the new “Constitutional Congress” met in 1789, aristocrats were being hung and decapitated in France by the public mobs. Many of our founding fathers had good friends among the unfortunates being executed. Some of the most prominent founding fathers had lived in France (Thomas Jefferson, John Adams,John Quincy Adams and Benjamin Franklin, among them) and were actually quite attached to the Aristocracy of France.

Shay’s Rebellion and several other violent public uprisingshad occurred in this country during this same time period and had to be putdown by troops.

All of this led to distrust by the ruling elite for the “Masses”(meaning the public, in short, most of us.)

Go to www.walthofman.com and read it in their own words ( The Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers). They wrote the Constitution to contain and prevent Democracy not to further it. The“Mob Rule” as they had seen in France later confirmed to them that they had made the right decision.

The Insurrection Act (1807) laid down the ground work and is now part of U.S. Law even today as 10 USC 333. The incorporation of the provisions of this act into the Appropriation Bills (which become Public Law) is a move to make sure that using troops within the U.S. can be financed with some legal basis (President’s actions are in accordance with “an act of Congress” as stated in para. 2( of 10 USC 333). This incorporation has been going on for several decades now, so we have actually been living “under the gun” for quite awhile.

We are currently in a period of public unrest, with public demonstrations increasing. The government ( read: the two political parties) is going to tighten its hold on the “unwashed masses” to prevent civil interference with the government.

Great start, dude!

[Guest mikedwood]

6.8 yes sir, plenty of room here. To much room.

As to what I see driving this is best shown in 30 seconds by the 1st President Bush.

As to if it is a good thing or bad thing I think depends on who you are and what your world view is. If you love freedom and liberty then I don't think it's for you. For people who find a collective environment more appealing then I think the New World Order would be a nice thing for them and they will like it.

[Moped]

I have to say, I'm more concerned about the guaranteed freedoms in this country more than ever before. The in charge in Washington need to go and go soon or we will end up like Nazi Germany. If Obama signs this bill into law, then all we have to fall back on is the Supreme Court.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yet, when I ask a soldier , a veteran or a cop who they would side with, I always hear "the people", not the

government. I wonder if it is true.

[Guest cardcutter]

Yet, when I ask a soldier , a veteran or a cop who they would side with, I always hear "the people", not the

government. I wonder if it is true.

I hate the thought of finding out. I personally intend to stock up during the coming year.

[leroy]

I feel as several other posters have opined that the problem started years ago (...i think the civil war...). The current administration and congress is just another iteration of the problem. The Nobama administration has instituted what i think can best be called post civil war reconstruction policies on their political enemies; along with effectively declaring a bureaucratic and legislative war on real businesses. These political enemies are the real folks that work, produce, and believe the things that the majority of the opiners here at TGO believe. I firmly believe the most recent iteration was brought on by the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent passing of the patriot act (...by a bi-partisan vote...). This effectively gutted many of the provisions of the bill of rights. This declaration of US territory being a "battleground" is simply another iteration.

RE: The Udall amendment. When i discovered that both of our tennessee senators voted against the udall amendment (...which means they voted FOR the declaration of the US as a battlefield...), i figured it was driven by blind partizan politics. The republicans and some demorats are simply voting against the policies that the Nobama regieme is for to make political hay. The problem is that they are throwing the "baby out with the bathwater" and are making more and more of the citizenry mad by their actions.

In a one in a million shot, the Nobama administration was right for the wrong reasons. I sent both of our senators a polite e-mail note asking for the rationale they used in voting against the Udall amendment. I have received no response to this request; nor do i expect too. There is simply no answer that a clear thinking citizen (...let alone an "annointed polititian" ....) can use to defend this vote. It is, in fact, all political.

At this juncture in american politics, there are far too many in the "political ruling class" like Lamar Alexander and John McCain who are the "anointed ones" of the "blue nose republican establishment" who know what it right for us delightful rustics and who arragantly believe that they are the "smartest folks in the room" and intend do the right thing whether we like it or not. That is exactly what happend on the eve of the civil war. It is the same old arrogant, condescending, and overbearing political ineptitude that the "New Deal Demorats instituted in FDR's day and the Radical Republicans instituted in Lincon's day. This kind of stupid thinking is exactly what caused the republican defeat of 2008. The elections of 2010 were not a vote for "blue nose republicanism"; they were a vote against the radical socialist and Reconstruction repressions of the radical socialist trash we have presently ensconsed in the white house.

Notice also that there was no provision in the house bill for declaration of the US as a battlefield. The House is much more in touch with the real world than the arrogant jackasses in the senate are (...at this juncture in history, anyway...).

It's my belief (...and hope...) that the individual state governments may restore some semblance of sanity to this idiotic notion that the "federal ruling class knows best" and may drag them back into reality. I also believe (...and hope ferverantly...) that the courts may intervene in some of this repressive law foolishness once it is tried somewhere. I think it is very interesting that none of these 'powers" have been exercised anywhere as yet. I think that everybody is layin low on this for the time being.

I've got no real problem with this bunch of idiots kickin doors in in places like chicago, LA., New York and these other bastions of idiocy. I do have a real problem with them doin it out in the country where the real folks live. Both parties better be damned sure that they do not get dragged any further into this "patriot act tar baby" any further than they already are. Once a few doors are kicked in, the populace might not like the idea of "Uncle Sam" doin them heinous things. I'm old enough to have seen a bit of the state vs fed thing in the area of racial integration. We may see the same thing again in the area of individual citizen's rights.

leroy

Edited December 3, 2011 by leroy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We all need to send our politicians a thank you note for making us a terrorist. I know I feel so much better.

Leroy! Am I not mistaken by your observation that the house bill is different from the senate bill, that the two

differing bills would have to be reconciled before a signature by the president could make it a law? I hope I'm

right, am I?

Because the idea of making me a terrorist in my own country gives me ideas of where to direct my anger. If they

have their list, maybe us "terrorists" should consider. This is exactly what Janet Napolitano was doing to right-

minded individuals, and service men and women returning from overseas duty, if you will recall.

If those fools in DC are so scared of the people who elected them maybe they should consider where "they" came

from before they attempt any further destruction of the foundation that props "them" up. Atlas is definitely going

to shrug.

One can threaten another by the barrel of a gun only to the extent to which the person is willing to be enslaved.

I have no master! Put me on your damned list!