For the 5th Sun IDPA Guys, WHat Did You Learn?

[The Rabbi]

I realize this may not be of general interest. But it might anyway.

One of the benefits I found of shooting IDPA is that things that sound pretty good end up being bad ideas in practice. Holsters with retention straps is one example.

I noticed a number of things myself just being range officer and watching people. But I wonder if those who shot came away with some insights into things they might do different even "on the street."

[dunndw]

...don't break into your shop while our there with that wheelgun :-)

[deerslayer]

One of the benefits I found of shooting IDPA is that things that sound pretty good end up being bad ideas in practice. Holsters with retention straps is one example.

What's wrong with retention straps? I use one in IDPA, and don't have any problems. I'm no speed demon with it, but I can hold my own. One friend is so impressed that my first shot is faster than his that he put me on youtube:

[ame]

[/ame]

[The Rabbi]

Not exactly what I had in mind.

I'll point out the only guns I saw malfunction were 1911's. I've expressed my view of the 1911 as a carry gun. Now maybe some of you see why.

I also notice that under pressure people did exactly what they've practiced. So loading the magazine into the gun in many cases also necessitated racking the slide, even where that wasn't necessary for this stage, since there was one already chambered. In one case doing that caused a double feed and messed up the shooter's time. If he had left the darn thing alone in the gun he would have done much better.

Now personally I think "tac reloads" under pressure are a relatively unimportant skill (and way over-emphasized from what I can tell in shooting schools) since there just isn't much call for them in real life. But it's there. So it pays to practice them sometimes.

[The Rabbi]

What's wrong with retention straps? I use one in IDPA, and don't have any problems. I'm no speed demon with it, but I can hold my own. One friend is so impressed that my first shot is faster than his that he put me on youtube:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQzsPFMUgj0][/ame]/quote]

You definitely have it down pretty well. If it works and someone carries like that all the time, it can really work. For me, it was one more thing to remember and fail at doing.

How long did you practice draw strokes with the retention holster?

[deerslayer]

That's too funny--I often make the same observations about 1911s, and get stoned (by others) for doing so. It's reality, though. 1911s are sweet running guns, if you can ever get one to run.

I also see people racking the slide after a tac-load. Just a brainfart, I guess, but I see some pretty experienced guys doing it occasionally. I'm with ya--I think tac-loads are overemphasized.

No idea how long I've practiced--I've had the holster maybe a year and a half? and been shooting IDPA about a year. I just bump the strap on my way to grabbing the gun (not really an added step). It also helps attain a proper grip--if I miss the strap, (extrememly rare) it's because my grip is all out of whack, usually way low on the gun. It has been my sole carry holster for as long as I've owned it, until recently. I recently picked up a CTAC, for when deep, no-BS concealment is a top priority, and weapon accesibility is secondary. The thumb break (a Bianchi Model 5, BTW) easily conceals compact or sub-compact Glocks under an untucked polo (my most common method of carry). I get lectured all the time about how I need to ditch the leather and get some kydex--it will cut .25 off my draw. I like the retention because I can roundhouse kick somebody without worrying about my gun flying loose, and, if someone grabs it in a fight or from behind, it MAY give me a half second or so warning before they get the gun.

[Guest utarch00]

I was the one with the reload problem. I can truly say it is amazing what your body and mind remember. I learned that just emptying a full magazine at a target doesn't get you much of anything in real life practice, except for a lighter wallet. I will be changing my range trip regiment from now on.

[The Rabbi]

I've certainly been there. Sometimes done stuff and then kicked myself immediately sometimes even as I was doing it. Just hardwired in or something.

[deerslayer]

Here's some more footage of the thumb-break slowing me down

[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8036190474015494956&q=idpa+mssa&total=29&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2[/ame]

[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3420904309391339604&q=idpa+mssa&total=29&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0[/ame]

and some fun with a 9mm AR:

[ame]

[/ame]

[Daniel]

I was the one with the reload problem. I can truly say it is amazing what your body and mind remember. I learned that just emptying a full magazine at a target doesn't get you much of anything in real life practice, except for a lighter wallet. I will be changing my range trip regiment from now on.

you werent the only one.

I realized, for this game at the least and probably irl aswell, taking that extra half second to get a well placed shot is better than just running the stage as fast as possible.

[KahrMan]

I learned two things:

First, really slap that reload in. On my first reload I shoved the mag in and started to fire. The first round went bang, it was already in the pipe when i reloaded but after that the gun wouldnt fire. The mag wasn't fully seated. After I banged it on the bottom and racked the slide all was well.

Second, The gun works a lot better if you take the safety off. I open a door and try to engage the bg and the gun wouldn't work. Took me a second to figure out to take it off safety.

I was shooting my Kimber 1911 and didn't have any malfunctions except what I caused.

Was really a good learning experience.

[dunndw]

I only had one issue with a failure to return to battery on the 1st reload. Other than that all my issues was trying to run the course too fast and paying attention to the support hand and the trigger finger placement.

Not bad with a gun I had never shot until the day before.

[deerslayer]

IDPA is only a game, and many treat it as nothing more. However, I think it's great practice to shoot a match with your carry gear. It's often an eye-opener--being on the clock, the competition aspect, having several things to think about and remember, and doing it all in front of an audience add some stress to the shooter, and many learn that their techniques need some honing. Weaknesses are exposed. This is why I have (so far) shot with only that thumb break holster and a compact Glock (and sometimes a subcompact)--I like to practice, train, and compete with what I carry. I am badly in the minority, though.

[Daniel]

you seem to do really well.

[deerslayer]

Thanks.

I still get smoked routinely, though.

[The Rabbi]

Thanks.

I still get smoked routinely, though.

No matter how good you are, there is someone out there better than you. And you will run into that person soon enough.

[Guest Len]

Things I learned:

1) Guy with a timer breathing down your neck makes a difference, especially on the first stage! (Usually I'm the guy behind the shooter, either as instructor or RO, so that was different...)

2) Kydex may not be the best carry option for me, at least not my Fobus. Excellent retention, but man it takes a YANK! to draw the dang gun...

3) I love 1911s. My Kimber CDP II is a beautiful piece of engineering and oh-so-sweet. But I was glad I had my Glock 19 today. As usual, the gun ran perfect, and I had to reload less than some other people. (Not that it helped my times any...) My only issue was a failure to seat a magazine. Gotta slam that baby home. For me, I think a full-size Glock (say a 17) would be ideal for IDPA-style fun.

4) It makes good sense to label or number your mags. The one I didn't seat right has given me problems in the past. Its time to take it out of inventory.

5) Don't be so linear. A few of us were talking about this after we finished. At the range we think forward and back. In some classes maybe we think side-to-side. But you can move diagonally, and it often makes sense to do so. On stage four, on the way to the cover barrels, you could get REAL close to the 2nd and 3rd targets if moved on a serious diagonal.

All in all great fun. I posted a few pics on the original thread over in Shooting Sports if you have not seem them.

[Daniel]

you do have to hit a stop button on the timer dont you? like it doesnt pick up the sound of the shot? if so id guess on these hundredths of a second you have room for error.

[deerslayer]

No matter how good you are, there is someone out there better than you. And you will run into that person soon enough.

So true.

[deerslayer]

you do have to hit a stop button on the timer dont you? like it doesnt pick up the sound of the shot? if so id guess on these hundredths of a second you have room for error.

No, there is no stop button--the timer simply listens for shots; your time ends when you fire your last shot.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

I learned how hard it is to shoot while on the move. I'm going to practice with my wife's laser.

Also, the IDPA games present the targets as threats. At a regular target range, even the silhouettes are more like bullseye targets. A lot of this is, as Len said, because the regular range is linear and a lot is in the scenarios. So I'll be creating scenarios to dryfire from different positions of cover to various angles.

By the way, Deerslayer, one point one one seconds? It takes me longer than that to realize that really was the beep.

[Guest darkstar]

What did I learn today?.......Uh, that I need to practice more! Also that this kind of stuff is quite a bit of fun. Also that I need to toss one of my .45 mags as I had a feeding issue. After looking at it I realized it's a mag that I usually only use in my other .45 and I was using it instead of the Wilson Combat mag. Just goes to show if your not paying attention to little details, but then again it's a good thing to find out my S&W 45 doesn't like that mag on an IDPA shoot instead of an actual situation.

[Guest clutepc]

It was much more of a challange than I expected which made it all the more fun.

A 40 compact is not the best gun for the sport but worked for this trip.

I didn't do as bad as I thought I would with it..

I can see how someone could really get hooked on shooting IDPA.

It actually would save me a ton of money because I didn't shoot near the amount of rounds that I do at the range.

Great time, thanks for introducing us to it Rabbi!!

[GhostDog]

I'm really sorry I missed out, it looks like ya'll had a good time. Hey Rabbi, any chance this could become a semi-regular thing?

[The Rabbi]

I'm really sorry I missed out, it looks like ya'll had a good time. Hey Rabbi, any chance this could become a semi-regular thing?

Indeed. It was so successful I am reasonably sure I would do it again. The guys who showed up had a great attitude, were very competent with their guns, and overall distinguished themselves pretty well. We had no, zero, problems and everyone came away wanting to do it again (as far as I can tell).

So yeah, if we can schedule it we'll probably do it again.