Castle / Vehicle Doctrine?

[Oh Shoot]

Hmm. I guess a 'thick' enough 'law book' can save a life too, kevlar covers and all. ; )

My tongue in cheek metaphor is also specifically to suggest that Mas, in that work at least, constantly hammers about how you WILL be sued, even with a good shoot, and how your life will NOT EVER be the same, and basically suggests that even a good shoot will likely ruin you financially for years, and etc almost ad nauseam -- and that just ain't necessarily so anymore, what with some statutes in TN (and other states) that have come to be. Statutes that specify "no retreat" and "no lawsuit" under certain circumstances, strengthening of "castle doctrine" etc. Hell, you can even protect property with deadly force in Texas (but can't open carry, go figger). Etc etc.

As a matter of fact, to give one example of how dated ITGE is, AFAIK there were NO shall issue permit states in 1980.

- OS

Edited November 30, 2011 by OhShoot

[sigrug17]

I understood the metaphor, and 'yes' I agree that some of the material (especially some legal aspects) is dated... I was trying to refer to tried/ experience of Massad Ayoob as one of many excellent resources for the responsibility of a CCW mindset, action, and re-action.

Thank you for further clarifying Mr. Ayoob's dated material.

[DaveTN]

The principal difference in this scenario with HCP/no HCP is this:

HCP gives you statutory immunity from civil suit. No HCP = no statutory immunity. The cost of the permit/class alone are worth the no-lawsuit clause.

Please explain. I’m not aware of anything in Tennessee that gives you immunity from a civil suit. There is a law that allows you to recover legal fees if you are sued and the shooting is ruled to be justified. I don’t call that immunity, and I don’t remember it requiring an HCP.

[JayC]

What do the lawyers on the board say? I guess that would be a better source of information.

One has already commented, MikePapa and offered to defend such a case for a fee of course

[Glock30]

Please explain. I’m not aware of anything in Tennessee that gives you immunity from a civil suit. There is a law that allows you to recover legal fees if you are sued and the shooting is ruled to be justified. I don’t call that immunity, and I don’t remember it requiring an HCP.

After a second look at the law, a justifiable shoot results in immunity from civil liability, not the suit itself. As DaveTN pointed out, you will receive yours lawyer's fees and costs back from a plaintiff who sues unsuccessfully. One would also receive compensation for lost wages/time. Last but not least, as DaveTN correctly pointed out, one does not require a HCP to receive these legal protections.

I stand corrected and appreciate DaveTN's help in bringing it to light.

[Oh Shoot]

,,, As DaveTN pointed out, you will receive yours lawyer's fees and costs back from a plaintiff who sues unsuccessfully. One would also receive compensation for lost wages/time. ,,,

Yep, and best of luck actually collecting.

- OS

[MikePapa1]

Yep, and best of luck actually collecting.

- OS

Hey, let's face it, by then the important part, the attorney being paid, will be complete.

In a less flippant response, collecting those might be hard unless you justifiably shoot a bank president or such. If your shoot is justifiable, then the shootee is most likely doing a term in the Tennessee Department of Corrections.

[Oh Shoot]

Hey, let's face it, by then the important part, the attorney being paid, will be complete.....

:)

[Fallguy]

Yeah...I know actually getting the cost of defending the suit back is low....but guess I have always that maybe that would keep most reputable lawyers from taking the case in the first place for the scumbag you shot...

[Glock30]

Is it up to a judge that a shooting was justified? Does the DA rule a justifiable shoot, or just decline to prosecute?

If the DA rules it justified, I'd think a person could take that letter into court, along with citation of the law, and act as their own attorney and ask for dismissal on those grounds. The questions above would clearly point us in the right direction.

[DaveTN]

Is it up to a judge that a shooting was justified? Does the DA rule a justifiable shoot, or just decline to prosecute?

If the DA rules it justified, I'd think a person could take that letter into court, along with citation of the law, and act as their own attorney and ask for dismissal on those grounds. The questions above would clearly point us in the right direction.

If you are justified the DA will not prosecute you. I don’t think he has the authority to rule a shooting justified.

If I’m getting sued for a wrongful death you can bet I’m walking in the courtroom with more than a letter.

The fact that you weren’t prosecuted doesn’t mean you were justified, or that you won’t be prosecuted later.

[Fallguy]

If you are justified the DA will not prosecute you. I don’t think he has the authority to rule a shooting justified.

If I’m getting sued for a wrongful death you can bet I’m walking in the courtroom with more than a letter.

The fact that you weren’t prosecuted doesn’t mean you were justified, or that you won’t be prosecuted later.

Pretty much what he said....

[LDRider]

My understanding is that if you are not criminally charged in a shooting then you can use that as your defense in a civil trial.

Obviously doesn't stop the civil suit. I guess it doesn't mean you won't be found liable in the civil suit but it should help.

The best scenario would be, if there are no criminal charges, then there can be no civil suits. I believe this is the case in some states. (? MO)

Jeff