Want custom build an AR-15

[Guest dakota.d]

I'm wanting to custom build a short barrel ar15 from ground up and im new to this. I have owned a couple but they were already built. I'm wanting to know where to start. I want it to be upgraded if it can (heavy duty). I'm looking for good brands, mil-spec parts, match barrel, optics and etc. Whats the parts list in building one. Any help is appreciated.

[jcoosi]

First thing is you need to decide what your going to use it for and what caliber ar you want.The possibilites are endless.

[Guest dakota.d]

I want the .223 caliber and for my use for it would be just to shoot at the house, but i mainly want a custom tactical ar15

[jcoosi]

Here is my first build.Its a bushmasters upper with yankee hill rails,brownells flat gas block,yankee hill flash suppressor,dpms t ahndle and bcg

Lower is a spikes tatical,dpms parts kit,magpul stock,trigger guard,afg2 fore grip,moe pistol grip and tac out light with pressure switch

eotech optics

[Caster]

When you say short barrel, do you mean a registered SBR?

That requires a little more involvement that I don't know much about.

If you're just wanting to build a 16 inch carbine, That's easy.....provided you have the money. That's always my stumbling block.

You need to dig around the thread here on TGO http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/show-tell/1480-post-pictures-your-evil-black-rifle.html

88 pages and counting of awesome hardware. Find the one that makes you jump and make that your pattern to start. You need to have an idea of what you want it to look like or you'll be all over the place hunting parts.

[sigbrown1297]

Since you have owned a couple, I will assume that you are familiar with the ATF process for the tax stamp. For a SBR, I would recommend using a M16 BCG and a heavier buffer. I have a 7.5" SBR and I use a spikes ST-T2 heavy buffer and works very well. The BCG i used as a Young Manufacturing M16 National Match chrome. One of the best out there.

I know you said you want to build one from ground up, but Im selling my complete upper on here if you're interested.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/gear-classifieds/65572-vltor-noveske-7-5-complete-upper.html

Edited November 27, 2011 by sigbrown1297

[Guest dakota.d]

I have looked into the laws with the SBR. What stripped lower would yall recommend? I have looked at the spikes and yankee hill. But don't know which one is better. Do they make mil spec internals for the lowers? Like i said im wanting to build from ground up so i know the rifle inside and out.

[Jon_L]

MOE Lower build kit

PSA AR15 Lower

Hurry before they sell out.

[sigbrown1297]

I have looked into the laws with the SBR. What stripped lower would yall recommend? I have looked at the spikes and yankee hill. But don't know which one is better. Do they make mil spec internals for the lowers? Like i said im wanting to build from ground up so i know the rifle inside and out.

If you really need a "mil spec" LPK, get the Colt. I just got a DPMS kits for 80 bucks, just as good.

I personally like POF lower receivers. I also like the Larue lower as well. Both are CNC machined from 7075 billet aluminum. On my next build, which will be a .308, Im going to use either POF or the larue lower.

So have you never cleaned your AR before? You pretty much should know it inside and out if you have.

Edited November 28, 2011 by sigbrown1297

[Guest twpayne75]

Read up on mil-spec and don't assume that just because the military uses it, it's the best. It just means that company had something decent and was the lowest bidder.

How many rounds a year do you think you will fire this? I assume from the "custom tactical AR15" comment that this will more than likely be for show. If that's the case just order a parts kit from the cheapest vendor you can find and use Primary Arms or similar optics. They will hold up just fine. The PSA deal is very good and actually a decent kit. As far as the lower, a lower is a lower as long as it's forged and the holes are in the right place. It is a low stress part in an AR anyway.

If you actually plan on using it, I would recommend you look toward BCM or Daniel Defense. The AR is an endless platform. I have built some that when finished I had less than $700 in. Some I have had $4000+ in. They are like a Barbie for men. I will post a few examples of mine.

14.5" with TA-50 Acog and Surefire M500

14.5" Daniel Defense

14.5" with Aimpoint

11.5" with Eotech

[Dolomite_supafly]

For the lower parts kit get the DPMS. If there is one thing they do well it is their parts kits. Avoid all other things DPMS if you want a quality build.

Here are the kits for $62.95 SHIPPED:

DPMS AR15 Lower Receiver Parts Kit ( Free Shipping) [LRPK-1] - $62.95 : Gunkings.com, 10-22 and AR15 Parts and Accessories

Paying for any other milspec lower parts kit is just wasting money.

As far as lowers go get a forged lower. Do not buy from small shops, only nationally recognized makers. I recently checked a lot of 100 lowers from a small local shop. Less than 30 were useable because the machining and tolerances were off. Also, some makers, even major brands, have started using coatings rather than anodizing. Anodizing is not only a color treatment but it is also a surface hardening treatment which adds to the durability. That is something I would ask before buying because paint is not going to be as durable as anodizing.

Billet lowers are not forged and are machined from a single block of aluminum. The forged lowers tend to be harder with all others things being the same. With todays modern equipment tolerances are gonig to be the same between a forged and billet lower. Anodizing can also even the hardness playing field between billet and forged lowers. But as I said some are just coating with paint rather than anodizing. Another advantage is forged lowers tend to be cheaper while being better. The only thing billet lowers can do that forged can't is be made with extra options like addition grip surfaces or additional reinforcements. Personally it isn't worth the extra cost to me.

Not even sure if you can get them any longer but avoid cast lowers like the plague. They are the worst of all the worlds. They are soft and tend to have tolerance issues.

With the bolts make sure they have been MPI tested and are shot peen hardened. This adds to the long term wearability of the part. The extractor spring should have the insert as well as the donut to help with extraction.

The firing pin should be the standard milspec firing pin. Do not use the titanium firing pins as they only add cost and nothing else.

With the bolt carriers the biggest thing is to make sure they are properly staked according to milspec. There are several different kinds of bolt carriers available. All work equally well with the main difference being weight. M16 carriers tend to be the heaviest and can help with cycling. I would also say most of the coatings like titanium or chrome are not needed. The only two choices as far as coatings go would be phosphate which is the milspec standard and works well. The other would be boron nitride coating which is not milspec but far superior to phosphate coatings as far as durability. One thing Phosphate coatings does better the any other coating is hold lubricats and protectants better. With most other coatings oils just run off and do not stay put.

As far as the upper receivers go there are a few major makers so you will likely find one that is and has been in use for a long time. Again, make sure it is anodized and not just coated. And with the forging vs billet, forging is stronger. Billet uppers are generally thicker and may be stronger but they are also heavier vs a forged upper.

Buffer tubes can be had in commercial or milspec dimensions. Each works as well as the other but the parts do not interchange. If it were me I would get a commercial tube because they tend to be more prevalent and popular. This means you will have more choices for which buttstock you are going to choose.

Buffers also come in different weights to help with cycling and recoil. And honestly i do not know much about the different ones and what they are good for. I have tried filling a buffer completely with lead to see how it compared to a buffer that had all its weights removed. I saw no difference in cycling in my test gun and honestly I felt no difference in recoil. It could be that my gun wears a brake and has nearly zero recoil.

Magazines are a big topic of discussion. Some like the polymer mags while others like the metal mags. I am a metal mag guy and I have had zero issues out of my mags. The users of P-Mags report the same thing. So it is pretty much a preference thing. Yes metal mags can get dented and become unuseable. Polymer mags can also get brittle in the winter and crack or break. Polymer mags can have issues if you plan on leaving them loaded. Not all polymer mags but some definitely do.

As far as barrels go there are some choices. If you plan on shooting a lot then chrome lined is the way to go. There are some reports that accuracy isn't as good with chrome lined. If you don't plan on shooting a lot but still want the corrosion resistance of chrome then get a stainless barrel. The stainless barrels do tend to be more accurate than a chrome barrel but do not have the durability if you are gonig to have high round counts. Barrels can also be had in every kind of profile from extremely lightweight to extremely heavy. That is a personal choice based on the gun's use. I prefer the lighter weights over the heavier weights. Length can also have a impact on weight. A thin profile long barrel can weigh the same as a short varmint profile. It all comes down to preference and then after that finding a quality barrel maker. Among the best is Noveske but they are expensive.

As far as twist rates go the flavor of the month seems to be 7 twist. I would avoid a 7 twist barrel unless the barrel is going to be extremely long to get the extra velocity needed for the bullets to perform well. With the shorter barrels you want a slower twist so the bullets will also tumble. You either need velocity or instability to get the maximum bullet performance. Heavy bullets do not have the velocity out of the shorter barrels and are generally overstabilized so they do not tumble either. The reason is the bullets don't have enough velocity to come part upon impact and with too much twist they are too stable to tumble even when hitting "soft" targets. This is why we are hearing all the reports of the 5.56 having issues with the Army overseas. You don't hear the same reports from the Marines and the reason is because they use a longer 20" barrel that gives them the extra velocity needed for the bullets to come apart upon impact at greater distances than the Army's 14.5" guns. And because the Army is using a 62 grain bullet with the 7 twist barrel it makes overstability much worse. For what most people are going to be shooting the 9 twist, and maybe faster, barrel works better than the 7 twist barrel.

With the shorter barrels the heavy bullets designed for the 7 twist barrels is nearly to the point where they will not disrupt from velocity upon exit. In most cases within 100 yards the bullet has lost so much velocity that it has to rely on tumbling to be effective on soft targets. But because the twist rate is so fast that is not going to happen either. This leads to a bullet that will likely pass through the target leaving a .22 caliber hole behind and not much else. The military tried to turn a short-medium range caliber into a long range caliber. In doing so they ruined short, medium and long range performance. If they realized the limitations of the cartridge and designed rounds for ranges under 300 yards we would not be hearing all the complaints we do. A short 12 twist barrel shooting 55 grain bullets would be better than the current 62 grain bullets in a short 7 twist barrel. At least you can push the 55 grain bullets faster for short ranges and leave the logn ranges to a better suited caliber.

I shoot 69 grain SMK's out of my 9 twist barrel and it is a 1/2" at 100 yard gun. Yes 7 twist would likely work just as wel but if I were to actually shoot something other than paper the 69 grain bullet would be extremely overstabilized. I have even shot subsonic 69 grain bullets out of the same twist without any in flight instability issues. It fired fine out of a suppressor without a baffle strike either so 69 grain bullets are stabile in 9 twist barrels. This means any lesser weight bullets are going to be as stabile as well.

Personally if I was building a gun to carry and depend on I would use a 9 twist barrel. The reason is the 9 twist barrels will shoot the 62 grain bullets as well as the 55 grain bullets, the two most common weights out there. The bullets will be stabile enough for accurate fire but unstabile enough that they will tumble upon impact with a "soft" target. And before anyone says we are not at war and will not be shooting "soft" targets you need to realize any gun may be called upon to protect life.

And as was already said milspec doesn't mean it is the highest quality. It just means it meets a minimum standard to pass. Think of it this way, a "D" is passing (read milspec) while an"A" is the best. And just because something isn't milspec doesn't mean it is not good. The relatively new boron nitride coatings that makes a part much, much better is NOT milspec. The boron nitrided bolt carriers are better than any milspec bolt carrier out there but boron nitrided bolt carriers do not meet the milspec standard because they are not phosphate coated.

The best "budget" builder out there is Bravo Company. They are reasonable for what you get and surpass the quality of other bigger manufacturers like Colt. I would start my parts hunt there and go elsewhere if you can't find what you are looking for.

Avoid anything from HESSE, BLACKTHORNE, VULCAN ARMAMENT. There is a reason why their prices are so cheap it is because they sell inferior products. They sell for a few years then close down and reopen under another name.

And the best thing about AR's is they are so easily changed to fit your wants or needs. You can have several uppers for various roles or you can have one that does it all. It isn't hard to buld a quality AR on a modest budget.

Dolomite

[jcoosi]

Kudos great info there I will have to finish reading later.

[Guest]

Dolomite, I love the post. Thanks for all the info. I too am embarking upon this quest, to build a new "Black Friday" PSA lower into the full thing. :-)

Is that the standard trigger on the DPMS kit? If it's good enough for the military and most civilians, it'll be good enough for me. Just wondering because on the DPMS site, they try to sell you a trigger upgrade for $114 while the whole kit is only $67! I already know I won't be adding the $114 upgrade, but the stock configuration is the "normal grade" trigger, not something that will need replaced right?

Thanks

[Guest HCRoadie]

it would be just to shoot at the house,

Why do you want to shoot your house? What did it ever do to you?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Dolomite, I love the post. Thanks for all the info. I too am embarking upon this quest, to build a new "Black Friday" PSA lower into the full thing. :-)

Is that the standard trigger on the DPMS kit? If it's good enough for the military and most civilians, it'll be good enough for me. Just wondering because on the DPMS site, they try to sell you a trigger upgrade for $114 while the whole kit is only $67! I already know I won't be adding the $114 upgrade, but the stock configuration is the "normal grade" trigger, not something that will need replaced right?

Thanks

You are correct. The standard kit I linked is all you will need.

Dolomite