A well regulated militia. SHTF.

[Will Carry]

I have read so many posts of people who are going to escape into the hills as a reaction to the SHTF scenario. First of all there is not much food in them thar hills. Second of all the people who actually live there will probably shot you.

So even if you make it there, you will probably starve. The thing you really need to study is how to form a well regulated militia. In order to have a militia you will need a place for them to billet. Then you will need at least 2000 calories per day to keep them fed. One of the reasons the American Indian was unable to resist militarily to the white man's expansion is they could not bring together enough food to feed the number of men needed. They could gather for a short time but after that they had to leave for home. NO FOOD! (go figure)

So in a SHTF scenario the well regulated militia is going to dominate. In order to feed a well regulated militia they are going to take the food from people. I don't know how that is going to work. I live in the suburbs and I intend to stay put in a SHTF. The gangs already have a well regulated militia. That part is not going to be easy for us suburbanites.

[Garufa]

Truer words were never spoken. As far as the militia goes...you WILL give your food to them to be either a member or protected by them. After that the caloric intake will be proportial to one's status in the pecking order.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Garufa

[gregintenn]

Finally.....someone with a realistic view. I think most people have watched way too many movies.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Another big flaw with the plan people who live in the city have is this. Most are not aware of what it takes to hunt and survive. They do not have the skills to do it and most don't have the stomach, at least not in the begining, to kill and clean an animal. Another big problem is whatever they do decide to do tens of thousands have already beat them to the punch.

I hear of people talking all the time about when the SHTF they are going to buy all the food they will need at the store. They are going to buy a generator as well as fill their tanks up for their trip to the woods to ride it out. What they don't realize is unless they are sitting at a gas station with a grocery store inside when it does go down they will never get anything. And these are going to be the same types that get stuck along the roadways for the roving bands to prey upon.

I have no intentions of going anywhere. I am not well equipped but I am equipped enough to survive for at least 3 months. And 3 months is far longer than most of the born and raised city dwellers will survive in a true SHTF situation either in or outside the cities.

I don't expect to survive forever, just longer than most.

Dolomite

[Will Carry]

Dolomite, You are the one who is going to form a militia! A group of people who are sticking together. I don't think it will be as bad as some people are saying. America was formed on Christian Judaic principles. You will meet others who share your faith.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I have read so many posts of people who are going to escape into the hills as a reaction to the SHTF scenario. First of all there is not much food in them thar hills.

there's plenty of food in them thar hills, but you must possess the knowledge of nature's gifts to know where to look for it and what to eat.

some of these talk tough city slickers wouldn't make it three days in the wild. they wouldn't know the difference between poison ivy and a consumable plant. they wouldn't be able to differentiate between poisonous or edible berries.

but those who have been around nature, in boy scouts, the military, summer outdoor camps and grew up on farms and ranches and out in the country are the ones who will make it.

the urban and suburban families who are too afraid to get dirty in the wilderness, to get mud on them and wouldn't know the difference between a raccoon and a possum are the ones who won't know what to do, and won't make it. they'll simply be victims of whatever ruthless gangs are about roaming looking for food and valuables.

[Timestepper]

The way I see it, one of this biggest problems with the world today is simply that there are just too damn many people in it. In a true SHTF/TEOTWAWKI, this will more or less readily remedy itself in fairly short order.

"Well regulated militia" or not, many will perish very quickly simply because they've grown completely dependent upon modern society to provide for them. Others will perish because they bought a bunch of survival books which promise to teach them to survive any given situation, but don't realize that READING and DOING are two separate things entirely. Some will perish because of the mass panic that will inevitably result from a SHTF (such as an EMP, whether man-made or solar) situation. Those who prepare by keeping their gas tanks full will suddenly NOT be prepared after all simply because their modern, electronic ignition cars won't run because the circuits have been fried by the aforementioned EMP. Wow, talk about panic in the streets! That's when the roving gangs mentioned earlier in this thread will do their best to take over. That's also when the "well regulated militia" - made up of those least inclined to panic - will have the chance to come to the fore.

Most civilized folks don't realize or simply cannot comprehend the mindset that it will take to survive in a post-apocalyptic society. They don't realize or can't wrap their minds around the fact that our current "polite society" will cease to exist and anarchy will reign - at least for a time. (These are the same people, by the way, who want to pardon murderers, pet wild animals and pose for a picture with wild bison in Yellowstone Nat'l Park - they are also the ones who will DEMAND protection from the same <armed> militia they refused to support/acknowledge prior to SHTF).

Then there's the rest of us. Those who suffer no illusions about the innate goodness of mankind. Those whose word is our bond and who respect others while keeping them at arm's length. Those who enjoy Disney films while not making the mistake of anthropomorphizing the whole freaking animal kingdom. Those who realize and understand that there is a REASON that homo sapiens is at the top of the food chain and make no bones about it. Those who understand that it is not our duty to die for those to whom we wish to render aid, but to make the other guy die so that we can continue to aid and protect those in our care. And we don't suffer under the illusion that we're gonna' be able to take a handful of guns, a bucket of ammo and an armful of survival books and run off to "the wilds" and "live off the land" until polite society re-asserts itself and things are all rosy and good again. We realize that we might have to do things that are absolutely reprehensible to us on a personal level, but are necessary for survival. And we'll do those things because, on some very deep level, we've made a pact with ourselves and our families to carry on and even prosper. These are the types who will make up the backbone of any eventual effort to rebuild society. I plan on being one of them.

To borrow from and add to what Dolomite said - I won't live forever, but I'll live longer than most. And while I don't want to be made an example of, on some level I kinda' hope to serve as an example to others.

I suppose I could keep going, but I've got a goat shed to finish, some woods to walk in and a squirrel or two to shoot before firing up the smoker grill for tomorrow's turkey... in other words, I've done enough reading and talking for a while, now it's time to get back to DOING.

Y'all have a big ol' day!

...TS...

[Will Carry]

You are correct. A savy individual can survive on nuts, berries and worms for a period of time. The pilgrams from the suburbs will not do well living off the land like that. I have never eaten a slug or worm but I have eaten snails.

[mikegideon]

You are correct. A savy individual can survive on nuts, berries and worms for a period of time. The pilgrams from the suburbs will not do well living off the land like that. I have never eaten a slug or worm but I have eaten snails.

Me too, with lots of garlic. Good stuff. It's safe to say that I'm not going on a nut hunt if the SHTF. With so many of the details up in the air, it's hard to say. If total lawlessness breaks out, I expect I'll wind up shooting a lot of folks to survive. Gotta know more of the rules before I know how to play. There's more than one way to end the world as we know it.

[Mike.357]

I don't have illusions about going to the hills. I can see them from here though.

If shtf people won't make it two miles out of their subdivisions before gridlock sets in.

I do love this topic.

[Mike.357]

And when it does happen there will be a lot of pissed off people out of tobacco and booze

[partypilot1]

Your dog sure was good last night, neighbor. I sure wished your cat tasted like that!!

[Guest mikedwood]

Yep, but the OWS tent cities have scared me off of trying to group up for awhile. With clean water in short supply, proper medical help and sanitation being sub-par, illness to disease is gonna spread quick, even if you have food. (Yeah they are idiots but it's just regular people who can't even make it in a park with bottled water and food brought in.)

Then again what about a SHTF scenario where food is expensive and scarce but law and order stays strong enough where you can't hunt or fend for yourself?

As for food in the wild I think that most meat would be hunted out pretty quickly in and around the cities. I think those around the country where you start running into cattle farms and pig farms will have a better chance of eating enough.

I can't really imagine trying to feed a group of 10 or 20 on what berries, worms and such you can find in Tennessee in the winter or fall, on a 2000 calorie diet every day. On Survivor most groups almost starve at least struggle and they are placed in some awesome, untouched environments full of food.

Plus anyone that you could trust would be trying to save and feed the elderly that survived and kids, just saying one able body male or female worth his or her weight is probably going to be bringing 3 or 5 more mouths to the table, not all of which will be able to help the cause much.

Just throwing this in if anyone cares to read it.

We hear so much about energy independence cause it's so expensive but imported food is cheap right now so who cares?

http://www.fdaimports.com/blog/how-much-of-u-s-food-is-imported/

Looks like 70% of shell fish is imported, 35% of fresh produce and 20% overall. Plus such a HUGE part of our food supply is corn based.

If something were to happen to the corn supply like happened to peanuts this year we would be toast quick.

A 13% shortfall in the peanut supply caused peanut butter prices to rise 30 to 40%. Just saying a shortfall can lead to prices way above the level of the supply fall.

People I know in the grocery business all of them say "without food stamps we wouldn't be in business" Just saying the SHTF could be over food real quick.

Edited November 23, 2011 by mikedwood

[Mike.357]

Buy it cheap and stack it deep

[UncleJak]

Good discussion! If the time ever comes, I have my spot already ready. I am gonna get there and get to work. I believe hard work can accomplish many things. My goal is to not attract any militia or other type of group. I want people to think I am starving and barely hanging on. I will work hard until my work is complete. At that time, I hope I have taught my children enough to continue on.

[Guest bkelm18]

I think any talk of what people will/wont/can't/should/would do in the event of a true SHTF (complete breakdown of society at a national of global level) is pure conjecture really. Complete balls to the wall chaos and anarchy is something you can't really prepare for. So it's nice to say for sure that you will do this or that, but we won't know for sure until the cards fall. You might think you'll go here or there because this looks like a nice place to hide out and regroup, but chances are lots of other people will think the exact same thing. So it's good to have a well rounded BASIC plan of what you're going to do with a few contingencies, but anything more concrete than that will probably go out the window once it all goes down. Just my opinion.

[robin48]

Its all about proper prior planning to prevent piss poor performance.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Noticed this article--

Survival Shop Reports Jump In Sales To People Preparing For “Possible Collapse” « CBS St. Louis

Sounds like lots of people jumping on the "prepare for the end of the world" bandwagon.

[Timestepper]

I think any talk of what people will/wont/can't/should/would do in the event of a true SHTF (complete breakdown of society at a national of global level) is pure conjecture really. Complete balls to the wall chaos and anarchy is something you can't really prepare for. So it's nice to say for sure that you will do this or that, but we won't know for sure until the cards fall. You might think you'll go here or there because this looks like a nice place to hide out and regroup, but chances are lots of other people will think the exact same thing. So it's good to have a well rounded BASIC plan of what you're going to do with a few contingencies, but anything more concrete than that will probably go out the window once it all goes down. Just my opinion.

Agreed. In all honesty, any reaction to any given situation that one has not yet found themselves in is pure conjecture. All we can really do is train ourselves and do our best to plan and prepare and then hope that when a situation arises, our reaction(s) will be appropriate and sufficient.

I used to do a lot of living history up home (primarily pre-1840 fur trade era and Civilian army scout, circa 1868), and one of the questions I would get from time to time was, "What if you really had to live like this?" And I would smile to myself because it was obvious they thought I was just a paid actor who showed up, put on the clothes and then delivered a rehearsed spiel. They couldn't possibly know everything that had gone into my being there; the countless and timeless days, weeks and months spent as an "experimental archeologist" putting myself as closely as possible into that particular time period - using only the weapons, tools, clothing and accoutrements available in that period - to discover, by grace, by God and often by accident exactly how things were done back then. They couldn't know about cold nights spent huddled in a wet wool blanket or bitterly cold mornings when not having kept the gourd canteen under the blankets with me meant frozen water and no hot tea to start the day with. They couldn't know about the sheer joy of spending thirty minutes in a river, scrubbing myself with sand because I had no soap and had gone three weeks without enough water to waste on bathing. They couldn't know any of this and at first I would I try to explain, but after a while I got to where I would just smile and say, "Oh, I reckon I'd do alright... I'd mostly miss hot showers and modern toilet paper, but I reckon I'd get by."

The thing is, even with all the stuff I went through, I never had a time when I didn't know - at least on some level, because it does get pretty damned real sometimes - that I could turn around and walk straight back into the 20th century and all its comforts if I wanted to. In the event of a complete SHTF breakdown of society, I won't have that option. No one will. I think I'll get by. Might even be fairly comfortable. But I won't know for sure unless and until it happens. In the mean time all I can do is continue to live the way I do and think about and plan for the time when necessity will force me to live another way and hope that I'm up to the challenge...

...TS...

[Worriedman]

In a real collapse, I think electricity and gasoline supply are going to be the first things to go. A source of clean drinking water that is independent of the grid will be oh so important. That is why I have maintained the old windlass driven well on my Grandfather's place (that I now own), along with the wood stove in the house. It will not be comfortable with the kids and grand kids, but I will have water and heat. The chestnut, persimmon, apple and pear trees planted to deer hunt over will stand in good stead, with the native pecans and a garden spot that sits on what was a 20K laying house that can and does grow anything, and the smoke house with the salt box that is still functional (and the knowledge of how to use them properly) will be of a major advantage.

[Will Carry]

That sounds great Worriedman but who is going to protect all of that? A well regulated militia. The point I was trying to make is tha we can't survive without working together. You will need your nieghbors to help you live and to protect what you have. You will need law, education and healers. Cops, teachers and doctors. A SHTF scenario will surely bring out the worst in our society but it will also bring out the best. Through the grace of our Lord.