Level of Skill

[TN-popo]

Another thread got me to thinking about this.

Levels of Skill

*Unconscious Incompetence
Your skill level is bad and you don't even know how bad.
This is dangerous not only because of poor skills, but also because of the accompanied false sense of security.
Many times on Day 1 of training I've heard, "I didn't know how much I didn't know."

*Conscious Incompetence
Your skill level is bad, but there is some self-awareness.
Learning begins here, IMO.

*Conscious Competence
Your skills are getting good, but you still have to think about it too much.
Things are still not honed to "auto-pilot" levels and in a fight, ideally, you should be "fight focused," not "gun focused."

*Unconscious Competence
What you should strive for. The ability to shoot, reload, clear malfunctions, etc. is second nature / "auto-pilot" allowing you to dedicate more brainpower to solving your problem before it solves you.

This is where the guys from Delta, SEAL 6, extremely dedicated civvies, etc. are.

An honest assessment will help you in the long run.
Where are you?

BTW, I first heard this from Pat Rogers and I thought it was pretty good.

Edited February 10, 2015 by TN-popo

[NRA]

CC

[Makiaveli]

I would have to say I am still in the CI stage. I can load and shoot, and that is pretty much it. Would have to use my toes to figure out how long it's been since I was at a real range

[TGO David]

Just a random sideline observation, but I believe it is completely possible to slip from UC to CC ... or worse... if you don't regularly spend time keeping your skills sharp. The less often I shoot, the more dull I know my skills become.

[Guest pfries]

I would have to say CC as it is hard not to think when training.

As I don't have a range with random surprise targets that can pop up on me, a real situation may well be the only way to know for sure if it is muscle memory or not.

I hope it is , I will train as if it is not and I will pray I do not have to find out for sure.

[Mark A]

Pistol = UC. I don't get to the range as often as I like but it is easy to dry fire, practice draw strokes, and reloads at home in my office.

Carbine = CC. I practice loading (push pull or Pat will find you) and transitions but I don't dry fire as much as I should.

Shotgun is where it all falls apart. Shooting and trigger manipulation are fine from all those years shooting birds and clay pigeons. Reloading is where I fall off the cliff in a bad way. I've got to remember to tape the reloading drills at the next class I take. I just forget the ins and outs of proper technique...

Failure drills are ok on pistol and carbine. On shotgun I don't even own any dummy rounds. I need to fix that.

I do find that if I don't shoot regularly my eyes fatigue at about 100 rounds in. Once I am worked back in I'm good to go all day. But at first, they get bloodshot and have a harder time focusing.

Mark

[MiddTennTaco]

Pistol - UC

Piece of cake. Wish I could have focused more on the carbine instead, but it wasn't my choice!

Carbine - CC

Still gotta think about it sometimes... I wish it was second nature! lol I need to do more live fire drills. Trying to remember to use the B.A.D. lever again after not being allowed to for so long. It's very helpful for most malfunctions, I just forget to use it. So much for consistency!!! :rant:Anyway, this is the one I'm working on now!

Shotgun - CI

I can barely do the simple things. Getting a good balance, handling recoil, aiming down a barrel, changing out rounds (its a little more difficult with a Mossberg). You have to hold the magazine tube in while you rack the slide to keep it from feeding a shell. It's gonna take a lot of practice or I'M GETTING RID OF IT! Just kidding... It's too sexy.

[TN-popo]

Just a random sideline observation, but I believe it is completely possible to slip from UC to CC ... or worse... if you don't regularly spend time keeping your skills sharp. The less often I shoot, the more dull I know my skills become.

Good point.

It's very easy to slip from UC to CC with perishable skills like these.

I remember Larry Vickers telling our class that at one time Delta's small arms ammo budget was more than the entire USMC's...there's a reason for that.

That's probably why Mr. Vickers is the best shooter I've ever seen in person.

[TGO David]

Good point.

It's very easy to slip from UC to CC with perishable skills like these.

I remember Larry Vickers telling our class that at one time Delta's small arms ammo budget was more than the entire USMC's...there's a reason for that.

That's probably why Mr. Vickers is the best shooter I've ever seen in person.

I've read several firsthand accounts mentioning the same for the various SEAL Teams. The amount of shooting the elite groups do is astounding, and obviously a contributor to their proficiency with the weapons they are assigned.

This thread has been a gentle reminder that I need to get back out to the range more in 2012.

[MiddTennTaco]

I've read several firsthand accounts mentioning the same for the various SEAL Teams. The amount of shooting the elite groups do is astounding, and obviously a contributor to their proficiency with the weapons they are assigned.

This thread has been a gentle reminder that I need to get back out to the range more in 2012.

My brother in law is Army Special Forces. He said that they are constantly train ing. I asked him if he wanted to go shooting and he said "I'm on vacation! I'm not working on my vacation!" lol

I can't imagine getting to that point where I wouldn't want to go shooting anymore, lol

[tnhawk]

....I can't imagine getting to that point where I wouldn't want to go shooting anymore, lol

I remember days like that when I was in the Army. Now I spend money & time reloading, so I can go shooting.

[Guest G22DaD]

Well, as far as pistol is concerned, CC. AND CI. I've got some skills to hone with point shooting...

Rifle: UC. As always, lots of work to be done. and work for skill maintainence to done in bolth areas as well.

[Guest Wildogre]

Carbine and Shotgun, CI. I do not own either but could pick one up (AR 15) and run it.

Pistol, CC. I shoot two or three times a month and dry fire several times a week at home. Need to take a class to see how bad my bad habits are. Still working on slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

[TN-popo]

Just a random sideline observation, but I believe it is completely possible to slip from UC to CC ... or worse... if you don't regularly spend time keeping your skills sharp. The less often I shoot, the more dull I know my skills become.

 

Bringing this thread back because I think it's important.

 

For many years I was at the UC level with pistols and carbines (thanks to .mil and good private sector trainers...LE training had no impact).  Lately, I'd say I've slipped to the CC level now due to life issues.

Regarding the defensive shotgun, truthfully, I was probably never above the CC level.

Also, many who think that they are at the UC level, are not.

 

These are perishable skills, guys.

Edited January 15, 2015 by TN-popo

[TGO David]

You know, I was looking back at this thread the other day and thinking about how badly I need to get back to the range.  I also need to get back to the gym and back to hoofing it a few miles every day.  Right now I would be the weakest link in my overall "self defense system".

[Grand Torino]

CC I think with a pistola and shotty. Not so much with a rifle lately. I've spent so much time getting proficient with those I've neglected the rifles for months and months. Maybe if it ever warms up.......

[jacob]

Pistol and carbine-CC...although I have fallen away lately from dry fire practice as frequently as I should, I also have a few training classes I would ideally like to complete this year.

Shotgun? CI, need to learn/practice the whole "tactical" reloading thing but I can shoot and handle the recoil for followups fairly well...

[btq96r]

You know, I was looking back at this thread the other day and thinking about how badly I need to get back to the range.  I also need to get back to the gym and back to hoofing it a few miles every day.  Right now I would be the weakest link in my overall "self defense system".

 

I'm with you there.  Being out of class for the last month with the gym on campus being closed has made me lazy.  Normally I walk the mile from my house to class and back, plus try to hit the gym when I can and mix in some biking on the weekend for variety.  But with the cold weather, and the holiday schedule, very little has actually gotten done.  Hoping to ramp it back up when the gym opens up again on Monday.

 

 

As to the original topic, rifle, I consider myself UC in the functions department, but not on marksmanship- especially on the move.  Time, cost of ammo, ranges not generally liking such things factors in.  The most I can walk & shoot is the assault rifle pit at OK Corral.  For pistol, I'll go with CC overall, but I think with more practice I can get up to UC easily enough.  Again, time and money being the biggest constraints. 

 

Overall though, I'm confident in home defense and while carrying out and about.  That's 90% of the requirement, IMO.

[Clod Stomper]

There needs to be a new category for me. Call it "Jason Bourne" or maybe "Mitch Rapp". :)

Actually, Subconsciously Competent may be appropriate. The only practice I get lately is in my dreams.

[Mark A]

I agree that renewing this thread is a good idea. But, I was surprised to see I'd participated before. Apparently a mind is a terrible thing to waste...

So pistol is now worse and carbine is now better. Shotgun is still terrible and I just don't know what to do about it yet. On the list for the upcoming Spring is to build a hallway decent range on the land we bought last year. Maybe that will help.

But honestly, dry fire can be done anytime/ just about anywhere and I don't do enough of that either.

I need to spend less time looking for the next toy to buy and quit building things for a while and start practicing some skills before I need them.

[TN-popo]

You know, I was looking back at this thread the other day and thinking about how badly I need to get back to the range.  I also need to get back to the gym and back to hoofing it a few miles every day.  Right now I would be the weakest link in my overall "self defense system".

 

Me too.

This latest back surgery (I've had two) has taken a lot out of me.

 

In my prime...6'3" / 215-220lbs, fit with body fat under 10%, martial arts, guns.  No ninja, but above average.

 

The last few years?  20lbs heavier and a lot less practice at the above activities.

Edited August 14, 2015 by TN-popo