Need help with a Christmas present choice

[Guest lostpass]

It looks like my lad has become responsible enough to take out shooting.*

So with Christmas rolling around and I'm thinking of getting him a little something something. I think he is too big for a cricket rifle so I've been leaning towards one of those rossi deals that have swappable barrels for .22 and 20 gauge. Except I don't know if those things are for crap or what. I do have a ruger 10/22 but, for now, strongly prefer a single shot deal for the kid. If it helps, he's 9 and around 58 inches tall.

*For those with nothing better to do: My kid has liked the idea of shooting forever. A few years ago I bought him a touristy blowgun and tried to teach him the rules. Every weapon is loaded, never point it at something you don't want to destroy etc. He loved it right until he said "The dart is stuck, watch" and shot me in the leg (bamboo dart, didn't stick). He got a lecture but then did get pretty good with it.

This summer I got him an airsoft pistol, went over the rules again and he did really well. Finger off the trigger until time to shoot and so forth. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe he's still too immature. Is there a good way to tell?

[Oh Shoot]

... I've been leaning towards one of those rossi deals that have swappable barrels for .22 and 20 gauge. Except I don't know if those things are for crap or what. ...

The other major maker is H&R/NEF. They only offer a couple of combo packages but you can add a barrel to most of their guns:

H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program

Both companies' offerings should be fine. I been thinking I'd like to have a Rossi single shot .223 as a backup gun, since they're the only place I can find that still makes one with iron sights.

Only you can say when a kid is old enough. I was shooting some under my granddad's and dad's supervision at about that age, and some here start 'em much younger than that.

- OS

[JimmyMac483]

I am a fan of H&R's. Great value for the money. My first gun was a H&R 20 gauge single shot that my dad bought for me when I was 2 months old.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I know you said single-shot, but Henry makes a really nice made in USA youth-sized .22 lever gun. Saw a basic blue model at Sportsman's Warehouse for less than $200 IIRC. The action worked as smooth as the more expensive Henry's. The pull did not seem so short that an adult couldn't comfortably shoot it. Maybe about the same pull distance as an AR-15 with a collapsed adjustable stock.

[xd shooter]

I'm a big fan of the lever action or bolt actions to start the youngsters with. With a little bit of looking you can find an older .22Lr bolt gun very worth the $$. Usually the older ones have better Iron sights. Another "opinion" I have it they need to learn marksmanship with iron sights.

You say you have a 10-22. I tried a 10-22 with my boy & got the playstation trigger in a short while. He never shot it as what I would call unsafe but it was the last he shot that gun for a while. His next gun for the range was a bolt .22 with iron sights.

Edited November 15, 2011 by xd shooter

[Guest lostpass]

T

Both companies' offerings should be fine. I been thinking I'd like to have a Rossi single shot .223 as a backup gun, since they're the only place I can find that still makes one with iron sights.

- OS

Are there guns you haven't actually wanted?

That's not a criticism, just an honest question. Cause I don't have a shotty. In fact, I have never shot one. One of the reasons these appeal to me more than a bolt action 22 is the option to shoot a 20 gauge. Selfish, I know.

[Guest lostpass]

I'm a big fan of the lever action or bolt actions to start the youngsters with. With a little bit of looking you can find an older .22Lr bolt gun very worth the $$. Usually the older ones have better Iron sights. Another "opinion" I have it they need to learn marksmanship with iron sights.

You say you have a 10-22. I tried a 10-22 with my boy & got the playstation trigger in a short while. He never shot it as what I would call unsafe but it was the last he shot that gun for a while. His next gun for the range was a bolt .22 with iron sights.

Yeah, that is what I'm worried about. I want him to learn to make each shot carefully. Even if I've never learned that lesson. (once shot OhShoots target by accident) Spraying lead is surely fun, I love it, but I'd like him to be a better marksmen than me.

[xd shooter]

The "small" problem I have with starting a youngen with a single shot is they tend to get bored with it.

With the bolt or lever guns they still have to do something else between each shot, which gives ths coach time to get their attention if they are doing wrong.

[Oh Shoot]

Are there guns you haven't actually wanted?

Touché

...Cause I don't have a shotty. In fact, I have never shot one. One of the reasons these appeal to me more than a bolt action 22 is the option to shoot a 20 gauge. Selfish, I know.

Here's the deal: shotguns kick. 20's kick less than 12's, but it's still a substantial kick, especially for a kidnik. But recoil is subjective too, in that some folks like the "violence" of it, some will never shoot the second shot.

For a kid, if you really want rifle/shotty I'd look for .22/.410. You could add 20 or 12 gauge barrel later with the HR/NEF. (I think, you'll have to look at what's available there. You do have to send the receiver in for them to fit new barrels, they won't mail you one, so of course best to get the two barrels of your immediate choice ordered together -- dunno how Rossi handles it).

Anyway, I was just throwing out the combo thing you mentioned. A .22, whether it's single shot bolt, or bolt model with mag (I don't see too much diff really in safety and function) is always the first choice for young new marksmen. So you might just concentrate on that for now and buy yourself one of the cheap pump shotguns that will be on sale everywhere for xmas .

- OS

Edited November 15, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest lostpass]

Touché

Here's the deal: shotguns kick. 20's kick less than 12's, but it's still a substantial kick, especially for a kidnik. But recoil is subjective too, in that some folks like the "violence" of it, some will never shoot the second shot.

For a kid, if you really want rifle/shotty I'd look for .22/.410. You could add 20 or 12 gauge barrel later with the HR/NEF. (I think, you'll have to look at what's available there. You do have to send the receiver in for them to fit new barrels, they won't mail you one, so of course best to get the two barrels of your immediate choice ordered together -- dunno how Rossi handles it).

Anyway, I was just throwing out the combo thing you mentioned. A .22, whether it's single shot bolt, or bolt model with mag (I don't see too much diff really in safety and function) is always the first choice for young new marksmen. So you might just concentrate on that for now and buy yourself one of the cheap pump shotguns that will be on sale everywhere for xmas .

- OS

Insert sad face. I did look at the .22/.410 and thought " Hey man, I'd like the 20 gauge better" but yes, you're right, a .410 would be better for a kid.

My secondary present was a bottle of tequila and a carton of smokes...

[Guest lostpass]

The "small" problem I have with starting a youngen with a single shot is they tend to get bored with it.

With the bolt or lever guns they still have to do something else between each shot, which gives ths coach time to get their attention if they are doing wrong.

Excellent point, I can see my kid getting bored waiting.

[Oh Shoot]

I...My secondary present was a bottle of tequila and a carton of smokes...

I knew you wuz a good dad.

BTW, if you wind up getting a shottie for you, man up and get a 12. It's the standard. Your kid can work his way up to it.

I think I was 10 or 11 first time I shot my grandad's. Old Remington 1900 double barrel. Small wood stock with metal buttplate. Brutal. Bruised me every time. I loved/hated it. Most all have decent padding now, plus you can add even a more forgiving one.

- OS

[R1100R]

My Son has had the Rossi 22/410 and now the 22/20 guage set up for over four years. They have been great.

When he gets bored I let him have at the S&W MP22. You should seel the smile on their face.

Teaching with a single shot is a good thing. The first set I passed on to my nephews. The second set came with fire sights which made a big difference. Rossi was a few years ago going to offer a barrel upgrade program. I haven't looked into it in awhile. There are some three barrel sets. I was thinking .223 or .243.

They came in a little cordua case that was easily packed even in a backpack. Hell I even like shooting it. Great value for the price.

Edited November 15, 2011 by R1100R

[Jonnin]

There is no way to be 100% sure a kid will not do something dumb with his gun. However, there is nothing to say an adult will not do something dumb either, I know I have made a few mistakes over the years. If he can keep his finger off the trigger and you can observe and correct any other mistakes he makes, you should be safe enough. As for a gun, my dad started me with a target rifle with a bull barrel, which there was 1) no way in heck I could point it at myself accidentally, it was as tall as I was, and 2) it was too freaking heavy to wave around! Not to mention how accurate the thing was, it was great. I didnt get to use a pistol until I was a teenager, probably 14 or 15. That is a safe approach. I would not get a single shot gun unless you want a single shot gun. It is not too hard to give the boy 1 round of ammo. It is very hard to have him load 5 or 10 into the single shot, however. I would get any of the multi shot bolt action 22s that you like, and go from there to the 10-22 or use the 10-22 as a treat. Its too easy to shoot too fast with the auto, which is a fun treat but a kid cannot focus on his shots with a gun like that, and will learn skills slower with the auto IMHO. I have not looked at a bolt 22 in decades, so I have no brands/models to give you.

[MacGyver]

I've got one of the junior sized Rossi .22LR/.410 combos. It's a great little package at a reasonable price. Pretty good sights. Easy to work on fundamentals.

I'd call it ideal for a kid learning to shoot. If he's 9, all of his shooting is going to be supervised by you for a few years, yet. You could do something hotter, but why? .22LR/.410 is enough.

[killerford]

I think the Rossi or h&r combo is the way to go. If he gets bored break the 10/22 out.

[whiskey]

You questioned if he is responsible enough for a gun yet. I'd say no. Not because he is less responsible than other 9 year olds, but because he IS 9 years old. My kid was very careful with her gun at 9, but not good enough to be left unattended with it. You just have to keep him at arm's length till you are sure he is mature enough to be alone. I was about 11 when I got to walk around the farm with a .410. I had a BB gun since I was about 7. I shot a few cows with BB's and got my butt beat, but I was a kid and would sneek and do it again. I nearly shot my foot off when I was 11 with the .410. I was probably safe enough at 13. I was just lucky before that.

I would highly recommend the Henry lever action. It has been my daughter's favorite gun since the first time I let her shoot it. She picks it over semi-autos and bolt guns. She is also a good shot with it. She bet me she could hit a squirrel in the ear hole at 40 yards last year. She did it too. My point is that she loves that gun and has great confidence with it. Confidence is the key. He's probably gonna have "fun" with any gun you get him. He will love a gun that he can hit what he wants with.

He's old enough that you can get him a .22 this year and a .20gauge pump next year.

[Guest lostpass]

You questioned if he is responsible enough for a gun yet. I'd say no. Not because he is less responsible than other 9 year olds, but because he IS 9 years old. My kid was very careful with her gun at 9, but not good enough to be left unattended with it. You just have to keep him at arm's length till you are sure he is mature enough to be alone.

I think you're right about that, I'm talking supervised shooting. At Coal creek and Norris. Never unsupervised.

I was about 11 when I got to walk around the farm with a .410. I had a BB gun since I was about 7. I shot a few cows with BB's and got my butt beat, but I was a kid and would sneek and do it again. I nearly shot my foot off when I was 11 with the .410. I was probably safe enough at 13. I was just lucky before that.

I had a bb lodged under the skin for about 10 years. I shot myself when I was eight and left it there until college.

I would highly recommend the Henry lever action. It has been my daughter's favorite gun since the first time I let her shoot it. She picks it over semi-autos and bolt guns. She is also a good shot with it. She bet me she could hit a squirrel in the ear hole at 40 yards last year. She did it too. My point is that she loves that gun and has great confidence with it. Confidence is the key. He's probably gonna have "fun" with any gun you get him. He will love a gun that he can hit what he wants with.

He's old enough that you can get him a .22 this year and a .20gauge pump next year.

The henrys are nice, no doubt about that. And lever actions are really fun. Thanks for the advice.....now I really want a henry 22

[Guest Broomhead]

My daughter, 7, has a pink Crickett. She loves. Two weeks ago, I left her rifle at home because she didn't say anything about wanting to shoot...until she saw the pumpkins in the car on the way out to her Granny's (in the country, my range). I promised to let her try shooting my 10/22. I set up the pumpkins and gave her a 30rd mag to have some fun, stuck a bipod on my rifle, and set her up. Her Crickett has a 4x scope, added after she proved she could hit anything she could see at 15yrds. We were at 25yrds, she'd never tried this distance before. I made sure she knew how to work my rifle, went over all the safety rules again, and let her fly. 28 of the 30 rounds hit pumpkin, 20 of which in a group the size of a baseball. I told her that if she continues to prove to me that she is safe and can handle a larger rifle with out doing the spray-n-pray, then I'd get my second 10/22 ready for her and she might get it for Christmas.

Now, all that to say that all kids are different, they all mature at different rates. I won't let her shoot without direct supervision, me not shooting and watching her like a hawk, probably until she's a teenager. Even though I'm sure she'll be ready long before that, that's just the way I am. She's just as excited about passing her Crickett to her little sister as she is about getting the 10/22.

She is a natural with a rifle though, she's confident with each shot and only has to take about 15 seconds to be sure she's on target. That's all with very little real instruction from me, I'm just letting her get used to everything before I start in on refining her techniques.

[MiddTennTaco]

He loved it right until he said "The dart is stuck, watch" and shot me in the leg (bamboo dart, didn't stick). He got a lecture but then did get pretty good with it.

lmfao! Further proof that "Hey, watch this!" never ends well

[Guest Baron]

My first gun was a break-action 410 and I got it when I was 8-9 years old. My dad took me hunting with it about a dozen times, but the trip usually ended with me shooting tin cans. I felt like the gun was made just for me and shot it with confidence. He would get me to shoot his 12 gauge once per trip and I hated it every time. I wouldn't get over it till my later teens.

I was allowed to carry around my BB gun unsupervised. I was never up to "no good", but "stupid" is harder to avoid. Hardest lesson learned was to be aware of whats beyond your target. My target was cans, but the truck belonging to my dads boss was on the other side (he had borrowed it that day). It was a cold and sad drive home thanks to me and a recently shattered rear-windshield.

[R_Bert]

I would start this year with this - Gander Mountain® > Rossi Triple Play Single-Shot Youth Shotgun - Firearms > Shotguns > Single Shot Action :

This can be his "beater" gun to get started.

Then next year consider upgrading to a 10/22 or Henry. During his pre-teen years, divise a points system (based on Hunter Safety, NWTF Jakes Program, etc, and then each year, let him "earn" a new/better firearm. If he safely takes big game and participates in field dressing, etc, double his points for the year. Make it fun and self-competitive. Build his confidence.

B.

[Guest hawkeye10]

I say get him a nice gun that he will keep and shoot when he is grown. Trust me he will always remember you gave him that gun and brag about it to all of his friends. Don

[sigmtnman]

My 6 year old had to learn the four rules before touching anything. He started with supervised shooting of a bb gun at 4. Last Christmas I picked him up a CZ Scout and it has worked out great. It is a compact bolt action rifle that is very accurate and is made with the same quality as their larger/more expensive counterparts. They come with a solid magazine that makes it a single shot to start out with. This turned out to be very nice as it gives him more steps to do and not get board. When we go shooting, I place it on the bench rest and he does not carry it yet, nor does not move it around. Right now we are concentrating on the rules and his form.

I know you've been looking at rifles that swap barrels, but you may want to consider a CZ scout. CZ-USA -> CZ 452 Scout

Edited November 17, 2011 by sigmtnman

[Guest lostpass]

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like the rossi 22/410 is on sale at academy or somewhere for 129 this week. It is a black friday thing so I'll send the wife out to get it. She likes to shop.

That is a nice system you have worked out R_Bert but we don't do any hunting. We fish but don't hunt. Nothing wrong with hunting or anything just too much work and I'd probably suck at it. But the kid sure likes shooting so I am responding to his interest.