Vehicle search consent?

[dtmd]

I've had two stops that resulted in a search. The first , I was stopped for loud music, I was 18, it was the mid eightys what can I say but guilty. Forgot the hunting knife in the glove compartment from deer hunting that weekend. When asked for license and registration I gave him my license opened glovebox , he said "Knife" I jumped back in to the upright position and said "Don't shoot!!" After his partner removed the knife he told me it would be best to put it in the trunk next time, then wanted to know if I wanted to sell it. All in all very professional, didn't over react , was calm. The second stop not so profesional. I was working for a friend at his parents liquor store. I was 21 at the time and had been working there for about 3 months. I left about 11pm with my girlfriend and her sister to go to a friends house. As soon as I left I had someone on my back bumper following me. I drive about 7 blocks when he blue lights me. He walks up and asked what did you get at the liquor store. I told him nothing I worked there, he then pulled me out of the car, no one else and looked in the back seat area and felt under the front seats. He didn't find anything went back to his car as his backup arrived, keep me standing out side my car on the side of a 2 lane city street for 15-20 min. Finally asked if he was done he said "Yea" I got in the car , a little ticked, left a little rubber on the road , went on my way. No license reg. just "What did you get at the liquor store ?"

[bigwakes]

When I was in high school I was cruising with 4 other under age guys in a Dodge Avenger (4 seater). We were all between 16 and 19 years old and everyone including the driver had been drinking. We picked the 5th guy up at his Subway job around midnight and topped off a Subway cup with Mad Dog 20/20 before we threw away the bottle in the restaurant trash can. That was the only alcohol in the vehicle and all the empties were pitched. As soon as we back out of the spot a cop blue lights us, walks straight to the driver window, reaches in and takes the keys out of the ignition. He said "if you have been drinking any of what I smell you ain't going anywhere tonight." Needless to say we were all about to crap our pants. As soon as the lights went on I told everyone to "deny to the end!" it was what an older guy used to tell us that was a habitual DUIer and usually bought our booze. The cops got each one of us out of the car and searched the car including the trunk. The only liquor was in my buddies cup that he held the whole time. They had each one of us breath in their faces and about three more patrol cars showed up. We denied even with the cops saying they knew we were drinking and basically scaring the crap out of us. This time deny till the end paid off. They let us all go. I absolutely could not believe it. I suspect they knew and just wanted to scare us. Mission accomplished!

[Will Carry]

I don't drink and don't do drugs. After reading all of these posts, I'm as confused as ever. We all have a constitutional right not to be searched for no reason. Many Americans have died to give us those rights and keep them. It seems like we should not be willing to give up the 4th amendment any more than the 2nd amendment. On the other hand I come from a family of LEOs, I know a lot of cops and I know how to deal with them. As much as I like to disagree with TNDave, I think he's right on this one. You have a few seconds to make a choice. If you got something to hide, it's better to be friendly to the LEO.

I have a friend who likes to smoke weed and drive. He got pulled over once and arrested for it. He was so nice to the cop about it that the cop told the judge, "This guy is the nicest man I have ever arrested." The judge was very easy on my friend. It pays to be nice.

[East_TN_Patriot]

No. Probable cause is not required under Terry. An officer only needs reasonable suspicion. Probable cause is good to have, but it is not needed for a Terry frisk.

You are correct. It has been a couple of years since I've had to look at Terry.

[East_TN_Patriot]

When I was in college in a criminal justice course we talked about a loop hole in the system that an officer can search any vehicle he has legally stopped. It basically was if the officer feels the defendant will not pay the citation or appear in court he can arrest instead of issue the citation at which point in time the entire vehicle can be searched "Subject to Apprehension".

I wouldn't call that a loophole. If an officer has probable cause that a person will not respond to a traffic summons, they can generally arrest that person. Once that happens, the vehicle can be searched incident to arrest and/or inventory in accordance to a documented and regularly applied policy. Just like any other arrest, the officer must have legitimate probable cause to make that arrest.

[dtmd]

I have no problem being nice. The first time yes busted, the second he gave no reason at all for pulling me over. I don't do drugs or drink. I'm not going to rollover and play dead because someone has a badge and gun, wants to invade my privacy on the off chance the he might get luck on one of his stops. I have always been respectful of the officers I have interacted with I have worked with LEOs. I been told many stories, I hope some of them where false or improved for entertainment purposes. I know of people who have been pulled over becouse they where driving a mini van with luggage in it during the holiday season because someone was caught with drugs in a mini van with luggage. No reason given by the officer other than they fit a profile. I thought profiling was frowned upon.

[Guest lostpass]

I've been on both sides of this issue. I've been the cop who stopped folks and I've been the guy who got stopped. When I was young and stupid, if they had searched the car I was in, not saying I was the driver, I'd probably still be in jail.

As most of the officers on the thread have said, attitude determines where the traffic stop goes from there. If you've got nothing to hide, but you don't like the way the cop is treating you, in other words if "he" seems to have an attitude, then perhaps it's best to decline to allow them to search. If you have nothing in the car and the cop seems to be acting courteous and just doing his job, I'd probably say "go for it". Like most things in life, I do not think there is one blanket answer for what to do if you are stopped. I personally think the answer always begins with "it depends".

Also, I can't remember the exact case law, but there was some case law which allowed the cop to search the portions of the car which are within the reach of the driver, simply for officer's safety. This could be done without permission or a warrant, but I've been out a long time and I'm not sure if this is still the controlling case or not. This did not include the glove box on the other side of the car.

Interesting thread.

I suspect this is the right tactic. When I was in high school (long time ago) we didn't know you could actually say "no". And where I lived I'm not sure it would've mattered. But we did manage to get pulled over while driving 25 in a 50 zone. Incredibly dangerous for sure but we were completely baked. I kept telling the guy driving to pick up the pace but he was too frightened.

We had a few things going for use. A) we were in a mid seventies gremlin. it was green. C) it was filthy and D) it had plywood for the drivers door.

So we're rolling down the highway, well below the speed limit and get lit up. The deputy asks what is going on and why we're going so slow. The driver says "I don't know". He said that because he was high and didn't want to say "Because I'm unbelievably high" SO the deputy asks us to get out. Says something like "I;m going to look in this car to see what you guys have, okay?" and my pal says "Sure"

Now I don't know what was in the car, it could have been nothing it could have been a bale of pot. Like I said the car was filthy. Full of fast food wrapper and so forth. He sticks his head in the window and you could kind of tell he was a bit grossed out. Right then my friend starts crying.

He kind of sidles up to me and says "Why is your pal crying?" or something. I was as bad off as my buddy and said "Everyone makes fun of his car. He's poor" Which wasn't exactly true. He wasn't poor, I think his dad owned a car dealership or something. He drove the craptastic car because he was constantly in trouble and his parents had taken his GMC jimmy away and told him to get his own ding dang car. Which he bought for a couple hundred bucks.

So the deputy asks me, since my friend is inconsolable, why we were going so slow. And I say something wise ass like "I think that's all she's got. But he's saving up for glass packs"

Somewhere along the line everything went from bad to okay. The deputy told my friend that he had a crappy car when he was a kid. Didn't actually search the car (I suppose he wanted to avoid cholera) and sent us on our way with a warning to stay off the highways for our own safety.

The funniest part was my buddy drove that car at 25 for a year or two because he was afraid if he drove it any faster the deputy would find out we'd lied.

[Wyldk2]

Oh, that's funny as heck.

[Guest oldslowchevy]

lmfao

[Guest bkelm18]

I don't drink and don't do drugs. After reading all of these posts, I'm as confused as ever. We all have a constitutional right not to be searched for no reason. Many Americans have died to give us those rights and keep them. It seems like we should not be willing to give up the 4th amendment any more than the 2nd amendment. On the other hand I come from a family of LEOs, I know a lot of cops and I know how to deal with them. As much as I like to disagree with TNDave, I think he's right on this one. You have a few seconds to make a choice. If you got something to hide, it's better to be friendly to the LEO.

I have a friend who likes to smoke weed and drive. He got pulled over once and arrested for it. He was so nice to the cop about it that the cop told the judge, "This guy is the nicest man I have ever arrested." The judge was very easy on my friend. It pays to be nice.

How is it a violation of the 4A if you consent to the search?

[Will Carry]

Did I say that? If you give up your constitutional rights, then you are subject to what ever the government, or the representative of the government says. On one hand, you should not be intimidated or bullied into giving up your rights. Yet these cops are the only thing between a civilized society and anarchy. So you have to respect the cops but the cops have to respect you. I have never been asked to consent to a search, I ain't sure how I would handle it.

[G27]

I've got nothing to hide, don't use any drugs, never drink and drive, etc.

Yet I'll never consent to a search.

That said, I've never been asked. I suspect most officers have a well developed 'sixth sense' about people and behaviors.

[mikegideon]

There's that "most' word again :-)

[G27]

I don't drink and don't do drugs. After reading all of these posts, I'm as confused as ever. We all have a constitutional right not to be searched for no reason. Many Americans have died to give us those rights and keep them. It seems like we should not be willing to give up the 4th amendment any more than the 2nd amendment. On the other hand I come from a family of LEOs, I know a lot of cops and I know how to deal with them. As much as I like to disagree with TNDave, I think he's right on this one. You have a few seconds to make a choice. If you got something to hide, it's better to be friendly to the LEO.

I have a friend who likes to smoke weed and drive. He got pulled over once and arrested for it. He was so nice to the cop about it that the cop told the judge, "This guy is the nicest man I have ever arrested." The judge was very easy on my friend. It pays to be nice.

Yep - I respect the police and what they do for our communities. I'm not going to consent to a search, but I'm going to treat them with kindness and respect.

You don't have to be a prick to stand up for your rights.

[10-Ring]

Haven't been asked to be searched in a long time. Only once actually. I can say after that experience I will not consent again. I know that most LEOs are good guys that really try to do a good job but there are a few bad apples out there and those seem to be the ones that pull me over, used to anyway. I have nothing to hide but I'm not going to let a cop rip my car apart, dump the contents of the console and the glove box on the floor, and halfway take my car apart and them say "I don't know where you hid it but you did a good job." Fishing expeditions belong on the lake, not in my car. Besides, honestly, my car and truck are a freakin mess, I work out of them and there is all kinds of tools and other stuff floating around in there, I'm sure something in any of my vehicles could be considered paraphernalia if you really wanted to.

[Guest uzzi]

I too am struggling as to why I should consent to a search when the officer can not articulate any probable cause? As a younger man, I had long hair. I have never done a drug in my life, nor drank but I'm sure I fit some sort of "profile." I would get pulled over all the time, asked to search my car, which I consented to. However, I would not consent now, simply because the cop has no right to search with out being able to articulate a probable cause. Cops do stuff all the time just because people are ignorant of their rights. They can ask to search your car. But how many times does a cop say "Do you mind if I search your car. Keep in mind you don't have to say yes" No! 4th Amendment gets trampled on all the time. If a cop could articulate a probable cause, they would not have to ask. Right?

[Guest uzzi]

I do remember being pulled over by Mt. Juliet and the kid that pulled me over asked me "Is there a reason I would be smelling marijuana right now?" I had to laugh because it was such an obvious attempt to get a reaction out of me. I said a simple "No." Now a cop throws something out like that and if I don't react the way HE thinks, in his brain, given his life and police experience is the "right" way, who knows what will happen.

[10-Ring]

I do remember being pulled over by Mt. Juliet and the kid that pulled me over asked me "Is there a reason I would be smelling marijuana right now?" I had to laugh because it was such an obvious attempt to get a reaction out of me. I said a simple "No." Now a cop throws something out like that and if I don't react the way HE thinks, in his brain, given his life and police experience is the "right" way, who knows what will happen.

I grew up in Mt. Juliet being harrassed constantly by the local PD. I have zero respect for that police department, they are a bunch of thugs. Funny the bullies in highschool are now the police force. I've heard the "Would you know why I smell marijuana right now?" line from them it took everything I had not to fire back with "Probably because you just got done smoking a joint and it's still on your breath."

[Wyldk2]

We've all heard the term "If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide", Well i used to believe that. No i have never been searched, and i don't intend to let anyone search my vehicle. I don't drink and drive or do any sort of drugs, heck i don't even smoke. So I know there should be nothing in my car that would be counted as Illegal possession. I know most cops are just doing their jobs, but everywhere there are some bad apples that are just going for a "bust" to maybe further their careers or make them look good to their superiors. Anyone can "plant" evidence, so it's not like they can't do whatever they want. "I'm sure they'll call the drug dog out just when most people don't consent, but that canine can hit on anything, can even be trained to hit on a car that is cleaner than a new car off the lot. All one can do is not consent, the cops are going to do whatever they want regardless. But majority of the cops i have encountered over the years have been respectful and helpful even. I have only been ticketed 2 times in my life, last time was about 6 years ago.

[Guest oldslowchevy]

if the officer comes up to me and is respectful and asks to search then i have no problems whatsoever with it, on the other hand if he is rude and seems to down right unpleasent to deal with.... it ain't happen with out a warrant.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, what does respectful have to do with it?

veer are your papers? papers, please!

If some are willing to roll over so easy, well Hell!

Throw another piece of the Bill of Rights away.

There are too many examples of abuse, and this is

one of them. Besides, with the TSA in the state, let's

just all roll over and play sheep.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dtmd]

I read an article in my local paper about TSA doing stops and/or roadblocks on the interstates. Anyone seen or heard anything about this?? Or is this bull.

[Oh Shoot]

I read an article in my local paper about TSA doing stops and/or roadblocks on the interstates. Anyone seen or heard anything about this?? Or is this bull.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/63827-tsa-checkpoints-now-tn-highways.html

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/63866-ill-see-your-tsa-checkpoints-raise-you-one-banned-cash.html

[Guest oldslowchevy]

it is real, i am an over the roadtruck driver andi have had to deal with them once already, i have been told they were in the terminal in memphis looking though trucks and trailers there 2 weeks ago though i do not know if it is fact or fiction.

and 6.8 ar it is not that i am "rolling over" my cdl is my life every thing i do in a vechile is recorded and time is money, i deal with cops atleast once a moth or more weather they are city county state dot tsa boarder ect.... i have only refused 3 times ever.

[Guest Baron]

I must be unlucky because I have been asked twice for a search. I politely declined both. One just said OK and let me go. The other time I got searched anyway because I had a bag of tools in the passenger seat with a screwdriver sticking out. Ironically I was coming back from a service call at the court house.

I will always politely and respectively decline and I am sure some LEOs won't like why.

The truth is that I have known some real bad cops. A couple were just scum of the earth and belonged in jail. The worst are the "good" cops that tolerate or ignore their crooked brothers.

These few ruin it for the rest. While I have encountered at least 5 times the amount of "good guys", I cant risk my future on someone I don't know. Being detained sucks. Being placed in holding sucks more, but neither suck as much as a jail sentence and I want every edge I can get my hands on when its time to go to court.

Luckily politeness , respect and honesty (I don't have anything to hide) goes a long way.