Vehicle search consent?

[BlackHawk93]

Just wondering. If you have a car safe bolted in your vehicle and you get pulled over. The LEO asks you if he can search your vehicle, can he also demand you open the safe? Now, I'm going on these as the circumstances. He has no probable cause to search but simply asks. I have had several friends, and my wife, lately get pulled over and this has become a seemingly routine question. My wife stood up for herself and said no, and the officer let her go. I'm assuming they do this to see your reaction. But even if you have nothing to hide, I feel it is a violation IF there are no suspicious probable cause indicators from the stop. If you consent to a search and he finds nothing, can he make you open the safe? Without probable cause?

[JayC]

A locked safe, would require a warrant unless you allowed the search... All the exceptions (violations) to the 4th amendment require some form on officer safety or exigent circumstance to perform the search without a warrant... A locked safe wouldn't be covered under any of these cases and they would be required to get a warrant or risk anything they found getting tossed.

Just wondering. If you have a car safe bolted in your vehicle and you get pulled over. The LEO asks you if he can search your vehicle, can he also demand you open the safe? Now, I'm going on these as the circumstances. He has no probable cause to search but simply asks. I have had several friends, and my wife, lately get pulled over and this has become a seemingly routine question. My wife stood up for herself and said no, and the officer let her go. I'm assuming they do this to see your reaction. But even if you have nothing to hide, I feel it is a violation IF there are no suspicious probable cause indicators from the stop. If you consent to a search and he finds nothing, can he make you open the safe? Without probable cause?

[Mike.357]

The answer to "may i search your car" should always just be NO. If they have cause they will just do it. If they ask they are fishing.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The answer to "may i search your car" should always just be NO. If they have cause they will just do it. If they ask they are fishing.

+1

Nothing good can come out of letting an officer search your property. They might get evidence against you that you may not be aware is there. Or the officer might construe an everyday object is being used for something else.

Example: My sister was making a plaque for my parents. It was going to have her child's first spoon on it. Another relative had borrowed her car. An officer asked to search my sister's vehicle. The relative gave them permission and when the officer searched he found the, yet to be attached to the plaque, baby spoon. At that point the relative was placed in handcuffs and told he was under arrest for possesion of drug paraphernalia. In the end they let the relative go but not after sitting in handcuffs for an hour while they destroyed the car.

Even if they don't find anything your car will be in some for of disarray afetrwards.

Dolomite

[DaveTN]

A LEO needs PC, a warrant, is doing an inventory search prior to towing or impounding your vehicle, or consent to search your vehicle. He needs no reason to ask for consent and you need no reason to refuse. If you give consent he can search anywhere he likes. If you have given consent and he wants you to open a safe; you can refuse. You can stop a consensual search at any time.

I don’t know why an Officer would ask to search your vehicle without cause, but it happens. I never ask anyone for permission to search their vehicle unless I had ready had PC and was going to search anyway. I just ask to see what they would say and to help me in making a determination on how things were going to go when I found what I was looking for.

But you don’t have to comply or open anything even if he has PC; you just can’t interfere with him doing whatever he is going to do.

If you don’t have anything in the car and aren’t a DUI suspect, you have nothing to lose by refusing. If you have something in the car or are a DUI suspect; you need to make some quick decisions.

[Dolomite_supafly]

A LEO needs PC, a warrant, is doing an inventory search prior to towing or impounding your vehicle, or consent to search your vehicle. He needs no reason to ask for consent and you need no reason to refuse. If you give consent he can search anywhere he likes. If you have given consent and he wants you to open a safe; you can refuse. You can stop a consensual search at any time.

I don’t know why an Officer would ask to search your vehicle without cause, but it happens. I never ask anyone for permission to search their vehicle unless I had ready had PC and was going to search anyway. I just ask to see what they would say and to help me in making a determination on how things were going to go when I found what I was looking for.

But you don’t have to comply or open anything even if he has PC; you just can’t interfere with him doing whatever he is going to do.

If you don’t have anything in the car and aren’t a DUI suspect, you have nothing to lose by refusing. If you have something in the car or are a DUI suspect; you need to make some quick decisions.[/QUOTE]

Even if you do have something or are DUI there still is nothing to gain by giving concent. Giving concent to LE is never a good thing whether you are guilty or innocent.

Dolomite

[DaveTN]

Even if you do have something or are DUI there still is nothing to gain by giving concent. Giving concent to LE is never a good thing whether you are guilty or innocent.

Dolomite

You have plenty to lose.

I’ve dumped out a small amount of pot with people that were cooperative and I’ve arrested and towed the vehicles of those that were not. I’ve called the parents of kids in possession of alcohol and released them to their parents without charges that were cooperative, and I’ve arrested those that were uncooperative.

It’s up to you. The cop and the people giving you advice are going to go home unaffected. You and you alone are going to deal with the consequences of the decisions you make. A DUI or a drug charge can impact a kid for life. Yes, some people have something to lose.

[Timestepper]

You have plenty to lose.

I’ve dumped out a small amount of pot with people that were cooperative and I’ve arrested and towed the vehicles of those that were not. I’ve called the parents of kids in possession of alcohol and released them to their parents without charges that were cooperative, and I’ve arrested those that were uncooperative.

It’s up to you. The cop and the people giving you advice are going to go home unaffected. You and you alone are going to deal with the consequences of the decisions you make. A DUI or a drug charge can impact a kid for life. Yes, some people have something to lose.

Several years ago in a small town near where I lived in Kansas, I was red lighted by the local police Chief immediately after leaving the convenience store early one morning. I was thinking WTF?!! while he was walking to my pickup, but I rolled down the window and said "Morning, Don! Did I do something wrong?" He replied "Mr. M******, do you still drink Miller beer?" Still completely confused and befuddled, I allowed as to how yes, I didn't mind cracking one open on occasion - if I wasn't going to be driving. He smiled and said, "Oh, I'm not accusing you of anything - I stopped some kids on Main Street a couple of hours ago and took away their beer and sent 'em home... It was Miller Highlife. I didn't want to just pour it out and the only two people I know around here who drink Miller is you and Ray Schulty and I didn't want to drive all the way out to his place just to give him a six pack, so when I saw you I thought I'd see you wanted it." I breathed a HUGE sigh of relief and said, "Well heck yeah - can't turn down free beer! Especially from the Chief of Police!" He said, "Come on back to the car and get it. You can put it in your tool box until you cross the county line."

...TS...

[NRA]

You have plenty to lose.

I’ve dumped out a small amount of pot with people that were cooperative and I’ve arrested and towed the vehicles of those that were not. I’ve called the parents of kids in possession of alcohol and released them to their parents without charges that were cooperative, and I’ve arrested those that were uncooperative.

It’s up to you. The cop and the people giving you advice are going to go home unaffected. You and you alone are going to deal with the consequences of the decisions you make. A DUI or a drug charge can impact a kid for life. Yes, some people have something to lose.

A persons attitude does have allot of bearing on how the situation turns out. Also how the parent reacts after being contacted by LOE has much affect on what happens or does not happen to a minor. If the parents shows they are concerned they are a much better option then the juvenile system.

[Trekbike]

If you have given consent and he wants you to open a safe; you can refuse. You can stop a consensual search at any time.

I just wanted to get clarification your comment on a consensual search and trying to stop it once it's started. If prior to asking to stop it, maybe they find something like Dolomite said "was not what it appeared to be", wouldn't that negate your right to stop it at that point because then it turned into PC in their eyes?

[Timestepper]

I just wanted to get clarification your comment on a consensual search and trying to stop it once it's started. If prior to asking to stop it, maybe they find something like Dolomite said "was not what it appeared to be", wouldn't that negate your right to stop it at that point because then it turned into PC in their eyes?

I'll leave the real answer to DaveTN, but common sense would dictate that no, it does not negate your right to request they stop the search at that point, but probably would negate the "consensual search" aspect since they apparently now have probable cause to continue the search.

[DaveTN]

I just wanted to get clarification your comment on a consensual search and trying to stop it once it's started. If prior to asking to stop it, maybe they find something like Dolomite said "was not what it appeared to be", wouldn't that negate your right to stop it at that point because then it turned into PC in their eyes?

Obviously, once they have found something illegal, you can’t stop the search; they now have PC. They can search anywhere the item they are searching for could be.

There are very few hard and fast rules on searches. Judges will rule on the admissibility of evidence prior to trial.

Vehicle searches generally are a result of two causes; plain view, and inventory searches prior to towing or impounding.

[UncleJak]

I refused once so they brought a stinky dog to sniff my car. I sat forever waiting on the stupid dog, then they ran him around 50 times trying to get him to smell something that DID NOT EXIST. After the whole ordeal I got a verbal warning for loud music and was sent away. So I guess if you refuse, they can still hassle you for at least 45 more minutes.

[Fallguy]

I refused once so they brought a stinky dog to sniff my car. I sat forever waiting on the stupid dog, then they ran him around 50 times trying to get him to smell something that DID NOT EXIST. After the whole ordeal I got a verbal warning for loud music and was sent away. So I guess if you refuse, they can still hassle you for at least 45 more minutes.

They are not supposed to detain you longer than it would take to reasonably take care of why you were stopped, to wait for the dog.

But since they found nothing and didn't cite you for anything...hard to do much about it.

[robbiev]

+1

...

Example: My sister was making a plaque for my parents. It was going to have her child's first spoon on it. Another relative had borrowed her car. An officer asked to search my sister's vehicle. The relative gave them permission and when the officer searched he found the, yet to be attached to the plaque, baby spoon. At that point the relative was placed in handcuffs and told he was under arrest for possesion of drug paraphernalia. In the end they let the relative go but not after sitting in handcuffs for an hour while they destroyed the car.

...Dolomite

A friend of mine was forced (may be a bad choice of words) to discard a tool he used for his job once on a traffic stop. It was a very small pair of pliers he used for computer printer repair. It was in a toolkit with other tools. Like your example, it should have been OBVIOUS it wasn't drug paraphernalia, but the officer made him discard it because he thought he might use it to smoke a joint.

[mikegideon]

Bringing a dog to the scene is one way around a warrant. It's up to the LEO to interpret the dog's actions, and it's easy enough to say the dog "hit" on something, even if he didn't.

[DaveTN]

Bringing a dog to the scene is one way around a warrant. It's up to the LEO to interpret the dog's actions, and it's easy enough to say the dog "hit" on something, even if he didn't.

This reminds me of the video the lawyers made telling people to get out of their cars and lock the doors on a traffic stop. It ends with three kids that had a bag of weed high fiving and driving down the road.

I’m thinking…. My stop would have involved a dog, three kids in handcuffs and a car on the back of a tow truck.

Being stupid should hurt.

[mikegideon]

This reminds me of the video the lawyers made telling people to get out of their cars and lock the doors on a traffic stop. It ends with three kids that had a bag of weed high fiving and driving down the road.

I’m thinking…. My stop would have involved a dog, three kids in handcuffs and a car on the back of a tow truck.

Being stupid should hurt.

A good dope dog will make a REAL hit if there's a bad of weed. Just sayin' that there's a way to search a car without a warrant IF they want to play the card.

[DaveTN]

A good dope dog will make a REAL hit if there's a bad of weed. Just sayin' that there's a way to search a car without a warrant IF they want to play the card.

If I had to call for a dog, I was getting a back-up unit sent until the dog could get there and probably whatever Command Officer was on the street. At that point discretion and negotiations are pretty much over. That was part of my point of saying that if you have something in the car, you have just a couple of minutes to make decisions that could impact your life.

The cops are going home, the dog gets a treat and you will either go home or to jail based on the decisions you made.

[mikegideon]

If I had to call for a dog, I was getting a back-up unit sent until the dog could get there and probably whatever Command Officer was on the street. At that point discretion and negotiations are pretty much over. That was part of my point of saying that if you have something in the car, you have just a couple of minutes to make decisions that could impact your life.

The cops are going home, the dog gets a treat and you will either go home or to jail based on the decisions you made.

But, if you DON'T have something in the car, it's a different story. I don't want my girlfriend, or anybody else rifling through my stuff.

I went through a vehicle search years ago, and consented because they gave me a good reason. If there's no good reason, I doubt that I would consent. Has nothing to do with what they're not going to find. I KNOW I'm not going to jail.

[DaveTN]

But, if you DON'T have something in the car, it's a different story. I don't want my girlfriend, or anybody else rifling through my stuff.

I went through a vehicle search years ago, and consented because they gave me a good reason. If there's no good reason, I doubt that I would consent. Has nothing to do with what they're not going to find. I KNOW I'm not going to jail.

Oh sure, if you don’t have anything in your car, haven’t been drinking, and aren’t a known criminal you can tell them whatever you like. But the chance of them asking you to search under those circumstances is pretty rare. I was addressing the “Always refuse a search†statements for those that aren’t living at the foot of the cross like you and I.

[mikegideon]

Oh sure, if you don’t have anything in your car, haven’t been drinking, and aren’t a known criminal you can tell them whatever you like. But the chance of them asking you to search under those circumstances is pretty rare. I was addressing the “Always refuse a search” statements for those that aren’t living at the foot of the cross like you and I.

... and I was addressing the rare situation of some guy fishing for "war on drugs" brownie points.

[DaveTN]

... and I was addressing the rare situation of some guy fishing for "war on drugs" brownie points.

It happens. If you are clean you have no worries in refusing, if you aren’t your day may have just got real bad.

[Patton]

There's a lot of good information on here but I'll tell you I have asked verbally for consent to search and their verbal response has often decided the outcome of the entire traffic stop. I will not say I have poured out beers or destroyed a joint on the side of the road but it happens everyday. However, I have put people through the system for paraphernalia once the dog hit on the car if they refuse consent. If I get a warrant or a k-9 out there I'm going to make it worth my trouble.

A lot of the time I search a car to rule someone out as a suspect. A few nights ago I was told a white sedan was traveling from Walmart at a high rate of speed, the driver was smoking weed and possibly involved in other suspicious activity. I spotted a vehicle matching the description and they were speeding, upon searching the cabin of the vehicle I determined the driver was either being set up or I possibly had picked the wrong vehicle.

Consent to search is a lot like consenting to a Field Sobriety Test cooperation can either help or hurt you. A few years ago an hour before the end of my shift I stopped a suspected DUI. I had already called the wife and told her to start fixing breakfast. The driver said he didn't want to take any test. (This is what defense attorneys tell there clients to say to police.) Well guess what, A DUI that refuses all tests are the easiest to process so to jail he goes. He could have been allowed to call a friend after doing the first part of my simple test.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Oh sure, if you don’t have anything in your car, haven’t been drinking, and aren’t a known criminal you can tell them whatever you like. But the chance of them asking you to search under those circumstances is pretty rare.

This statement is inaccurate. Police routinely ask for consent to search for no reason at all other than as a fishing expedition. This has been shown to be true over and over again when the police are looking for drugs in particular and using a traffic violation or equipment violation as a precursory stop. Any police officer who is on a mission to make drug arrests will systematically seek out violators in traffic, especially those that they think fits the stereotypical drug criminal as they have conceived it, make the stop and ask for consent. There have been multiple studies & cases to show that the poor and minority groups (who tend to be disproportionately poor) are more likely to be targeted due to the tendency to see drug crime as one of the poor. Keep in mind, there is a big difference between an officer who is legitimately working traffic for the sake of working traffic enforcement and an officer who is using traffic as an opportunity to seek out drug offenders.

Also one thing that people have left out is the mistake that officers make when they place someone in the back of their patrol car "for your safety and mine." In effect, they have detained the person beyond the scope of the original investigation and have very clearly removed the person's ability to revoke consent at any time as required by the Supreme Court.