better defense round - .357mag or .45ACP

[Guest GregRN]

[Marswolf]

I'm going to suggest that all of you download Federal's 2008 Interactive Ballistics Catalog at http://www.federalcartridge.com/Download/SETUP.EXE.

Go to the centerfire ammunition pistol page, select reasonable 357 Mag and 45 ACP rounds by clicking in the boxes to the left of the rounds and then click compare.

Then see which rounds have the higher velocity and more bullet energy. It's a simple way to see which round is "better."

That Federal catalog is one of the standard applications I keep on the desktop. Lots of useful information.

[Mike.357]

So are Glocks..... j/k..

Way over rated.

They could have stopped inventing new cartridges after the .357 mag was invented.

That truly is perfection.

[The Rabbi]

I'm going to suggest that all of you download Federal's 2008 Interactive Ballistics Catalog at http://www.federalcartridge.com/Download/SETUP.EXE.

Go to the centerfire ammunition pistol page, select reasonable 357 Mag and 45 ACP rounds by clicking in the boxes to the left of the rounds and then click compare.

Then see which rounds have the higher velocity and more bullet energy. It's a simple way to see which round is "better."

That Federal catalog is one of the standard applications I keep on the desktop. Lots of useful information.

I would tend to disagree that simply heavier+faster+wider=more effective. By that calculation .44mag is far superior to anything else out there. Or .500mag. But no one is going to carry that stuff for personal defense (disclaimer: I do occasionally carry a Smith 629 for SD but generally loaded with specials).

I'd rather see actual street results. And those generally suggest that anything 9mm/.38 and over are going to be effective.

[Guest HogMan]

.357 Magnun of coarse.

If you put the bullet where it counts it want matter.

Edited March 25, 2008 by HogMan

[Marswolf]

I would tend to disagree that simply heavier+faster+wider=more effective.

I think the data favors the 357 Magnum. The 45 ACP is definitely not faster.

The only thing the 45 ACP does is make a bigger hole.

[molonlabetn]

There's always a point of diminishing returns... but in terms of common handgun calibers, effectiveness is certainly determined by the ballistics, characteristics of the bullet, and the precision of the shooter. The most common limitation is the ability of the shooter to be precise with a powerful load... so the trade-off for a more controllable chambering wins out, hence the effort put into designing an expanding bullet for the weaker calibers which will maximize their potential within specific criteria suitable to the application (ie greater than 12"-14" penetration is unnecessary for humans, so expanding bullets are used to make a larger hole just up to that depth...). It's just not practical to carry a large-bore magnum, even though such power would certainly be ideal for rapid incapacitation, if it could be wielded proficiently.

.45acp is easier to shoot, in it's common platforms... .357magnum can be punishing by comparison, unless one is using a gun which weighs twice as much. So, considering the similarities of the overall energy and tested penetration (along with both of their excellent reputations), I would say that for self-defense that the .45acp would be a better choice. Now, if the .357magnum's power was harnessed in a pistol which was equally easy to shoot as the .45acp, I'd opt for that. Since it is slightly more powerful.

[Guest Bronker]

+1 molonlabetn.

A true expert opinion.

[Marswolf]

How about if you use that 357Magnum Glock they talk about in the handgun carry course video?

[molonlabetn]

How about if you use that 357Magnum Glock they talk about in the handgun carry course video?

That must be the Glock 7... I'd own one, but they cost more than I make in a month.

.357sig works for me quite well, as a substitute.

[saintsfanbrian]

Nope, Eddie, the Glock 7 is a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it costs more than you make here in a month!

[molonlabetn]

I don't make anything here in a month... does that mean it's free? I'll take one!

[Guest atomemphis]

How does the 38 Super stack up? I look at the ballistics table, and the Federal +P 38 Super has high velocity, and high energy.... And its available in the platform I'd carry (1911).

Trying to figure out if it weighs-in, in this argument of 357Mag vs 45ACP

[molonlabetn]

.38super is well behind the .357mag and sig (closer to 9mm +p)... but the .38super +p and the 9x23 are right in the same ballpark as medium .357sig loads and light .357magnum loads.

[memphismason]

I don't like to get invovled with the Ford vs. Chevy type arguments. And all the people hating on Glocks, is silly. A person's gun choice should be based on what they can effectively use. For example I hate Sigs. They are great functioning guns, but I just don't enjoy shooting them. I would never think about talking someone out of buying one though, just because I don't like it.

I love my Glock model 30, but that is a PERSONAL perference. If I at all thought I couldn't handle a .45 correctly I would have no problem with carrying a .357. The only reason I didn't buy a revovler for my persoanl carry weapon, is number of rounds.

I have friends who are wheelgun only type guys and they are macho enough to say, "All you need is 5 to 6 rounds of well placed .357 or .38 special, and that will do the job." and I agree to some extent, but I don't have enough faith in myself (in a shooting situation) to be that macho. I want my 11 rounds plus my extra mag of ten on my side. Hey thugs in Memphis sometimes run in packs. But I wouldn't cry if I had a .357 magnum with a few speed-loaders ready to go, just means I would get to practice more.

Now I love a .357 mag revolver. I am currently in the market for a used wheelgun, to keep at home.

One of the deciding factors for me buying my .45 was penetration. After you pull the trigger, you are responsible for that bullet, and whatever it hits. So after research I decided I wanted the slowest, fatest round I could comfortably carry in a gun, and the Glock Model 30 meet those needs. I carry Remington Gold Sabers in 230 grains.

Go ahead everyone blast away.

PS I recoomend using what you can use the most effectively. If you have shot hundreds of .45acp, and you just couldn't preform as good as you did with the .357, then you need the .357, and vice versa.

[Smith]

Most of the Glock stuff is tongue in check. Mainly due to the Glockers willingness of suspended belief in all the marketing hype.... "Glock Perfection!"

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

my PERSONAL preference is the .45 GAP but my next choices would be .45 ACP

[The Rabbi]

my PERSONAL preference is the .45 GAP but my next choices would be .45 ACP

That's the first person I've ever seen who actually wanted a .45gap. Why? There isn't anything wrong with the caliber, but it seems like other things do the same thing or maybe better.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

For me the .45GAP has less felt recoil and is more accurate than .45ACP IMO

Edited March 25, 2008 by GLOCKGUY

[molonlabetn]

I liked the .45gap pistol I had... I'd own another if the cost of ammunition wasn't even higher than .357sig

So far the only platform which truly captures this caliber's advantages is the Glock 39 (subcompact), and the Para Carry Gap 1911. There really isn't a point to having a full-size gun in this caliber... and I can say that because I was the dumaz who bought a Tactical XD in .45gap (albeit before the .45acp version was announced).

[PaiMei]

For me the .45GAP has less felt recoil and is more accurate than .45ACP IMO

and what pistol did you use to do that comparison?

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I liked the .45gap pistol I had... I'd own another if the cost of ammunition wasn't even higher than .357sig

So far the only platform which truly captures this caliber's advantages is the Glock 39 (subcompact), and the Para Carry Gap 1911. There really isn't a point to having a full-size gun in this caliber... and I can say that because I was the dumaz who bought a Tactical XD in .45gap (albeit before the .45acp version was announced).

"lol" i bought a Tactical XD in .45gap to it was my first XD and my last.

[Marswolf]

For me the .45GAP has less felt recoil and is more accurate than .45ACP IMO

That's not saying much.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

and what pistol did you use to do that comparison?

before i bought my G-38 i rented a G-21sf and G-21 and G-30 and out of all of them .45 GAP had less felt recoil and is more accurate than .45ACP IMO now to you it might be the other way around. i have small hands and the G-38 was the only one that fit my hands the rest was way to fat so that might had something to do with it

[Guest atomemphis]

i wouldn't want a 45gap over a 45acp since it kind of limits you to a few guns & makers. I feel, after a cursory glance of the makers of the arms i prefer, the going big round is the ACP, none or few offer the GAP.

I also like to own common calibers - where my ammo will go into more than one of my guns. the GAP round would only be for that gun alone...

Just kind of my thoughts on the GAP...

and felt recoil for each round cannot be compared unless it is on two identically sprung guns, with same weights, barrels, etc. So if you could compare two glocks, one is ACP and one in GAP, that'd be a fair comparison. There are some big differences in felt recoil and accuracy from gun to gun using the same caliber, size/weight, and brand of ammo...