better defense round - .357mag or .45ACP

[Marswolf]

I've said a number of times that there is really nothing wrong with the 45GAP, but there is nothing particularly right about it either. Just another in a long list of oddball rounds that never caught on.

And also as I've said before, the 45 ACP is great for commies coming over the berm. That's not a bad description of self-defense. I can't fault someone for using a 45 ACP for defense as long as it is out of a reasonable gun for self-defense.

It's not my choice though. I think either a 40 S&W or 9mm Parabellum is a better choice, depending on situation and distance. But I'll tolerate 45 ACP for close range as OK. I just refuse to carry them. Have since 1969 in Vietnam.

[saintsfanbrian]

Best defense round?

The one you can get the most of on target in the least amount of time under stress.

A 45 that you can't hit the broad side of the barn with won't do nearly as good as the 22 that you can shoot the wings off a gnat at 100 yards every time.

[The Rabbi]

Heck, everyone knows the best defensive round is the .41AE. So effective there was a move among gun makers not to market it. Didnt want too many dead bodies in the street, is what I was told.

[Guest atomemphis]

so what is newer bullet technology than this new box of Federal Hydra-shoks that are sitting on my desk?

They seem like they are essentially a hollow point, with a center "guide-post".

That makes them a little more clever than standard hollow points, and the only other JHP-esque round I can think of Glaser Safety Slugs, the PowerBall (with goofy spelling) round...

Educate me.

[strickj]

They have problems going through stuff like clothes,and what not.They like to clog up and not expand.I carry nothing but bonded hp's.The jacket are "bonded" with heat to the core to keep weight retention,and allowing for max expansion

[Marswolf]

Heck, everyone knows the best defensive round is the .41AE. So effective there was a move among gun makers not to market it. Didnt want too many dead bodies in the street, is what I was told.

Shushhhhhhh. It's so deadly that they won't even make it in an Extreme-Shock.

[Marswolf]

They have problems going through stuff like clothes,and what not.They like to clog up and not expand.I carry nothing but bonded hp's.The jacket are "bonded" with heat to the core to keep weight retention,and allowing for max expansion

Hydra-Shoks sometime clog up and don't expand properly after passing through DENIM. How many cool dudes you seen lately wearing denim? Gun totin' homies don't do denim! There is no problem going through clothes. It goes through very well...thank you. It might not expand as expected if going through a hippie. But it will go into, and mayeb through them if the round doesn't expand properly.

[The Rabbi]

Shushhhhhhh. It's so deadly that they won't even make it in an Extreme-Shock.

You ever seen a picture of a Ninja with a .41AE? No, of course not. It's that secret.

And it doesn't need Xtreme Shock. If the bullet passes within 5 feet of you you'll bleed out just from the concussion.

[Marswolf]

You ever seen a picture of a Ninja with a .41AE? No, of course not. It's that secret.

And it doesn't need Xtreme Shock. If the bullet passes within 5 feet of you you'll bleed out just from the concussion.

But heaven help us if you hit someone with a 41AE Extreme-Shock. Everyone within a mile has their head explode.

[The Rabbi]

But heaven help us if you hit someone with a 41AE Extreme-Shock. Everyone within a mile has their head explode.

I see you attended the Agency briefing too.....

[strickj]

Hydra-Shoks sometime clog up and don't expand properly after passing through DENIM. How many cool dudes you seen lately wearing denim? Gun totin' homies don't do denim! There is no problem going through clothes. It goes through very well...thank you. It might not expand as expected if going through a hippie. But it will go into, and mayeb through them if the round doesn't expand properly.

Well I meant blue jeans and heavy clothing like jackets.

Ohh,and there are still some people wearing jean jackets

[Guest atomemphis]

Those people are in Canada.

I would think it penetrates the denim and into the body far enough that its still lethal, no?

[Marswolf]

Well I meant blue jeans and heavy clothing like jackets.

Ohh,and there are still some people wearing jean jackets

You shoot people in their jeans? Kinky....

And my soon to be ex-wife might be wearing a jean jacket. She's very unlikely to shoot you, unless you annoy her.

[Mike.357]

.41AE.

what the heck is this?

Given my druthers I would just as soon carrry a '58 Remington with .454 balls cruising at around 800 FPS. Shoot them at close range and not only put a nice hole int he BG but also set him afire. Spare cylinder for a "preacher" like quick reload if need be.

[Guest 2HOW]

what the heck is this?

Given my druthers I would just as soon carrry a '58 Remington with .454 balls cruising at around 800 FPS. Shoot them at close range and not only put a nice hole int he BG but also set him afire. Spare cylinder for a "preacher" like quick reload if need be.

+1

[The Rabbi]

what the heck is this?

If you don't know then you haven't received proper clearance to know.

[Guest Grout]

That's a good point. While the Hydrashock may have been wonderful for dispatching the badguys of ten years ago, they hardly suffice for todays new breed of badguy.

Luckily, I haven't seen much of a change in human flesh composition over the past 10 years, and am comfortable sticking with a round that works with the badguy of yesteryear.

On topic: .357 if you like revolvers, .45 if you like pistols

A very astute response,I concur.

[nightrunner]

according to the federal ammuniton application program that was posted earlier in this thread, .357mag outperforms the .45acp in both bullet velocity and bullet energy.

just wondering if the .357mag has too much penetration, ie, will it completely penetrate a human and cause damage after it exits on the back side?

[deerslayer]

I'm going to suggest that all of you download Federal's 2008 Interactive Ballistics Catalog at http://www.federalcartridge.com/Download/SETUP.EXE.

Go to the centerfire ammunition pistol page, select reasonable 357 Mag and 45 ACP rounds by clicking in the boxes to the left of the rounds and then click compare.

Then see which rounds have the higher velocity and more bullet energy. It's a simple way to see which round is "better."

That Federal catalog is one of the standard applications I keep on the desktop. Lots of useful information.

I've never believed the kinetic energy formula to be the end-all, final, determining factor in calculating bullet energy. The kinetic energy formula squares velocity, and therefore favors higher velocity rounds like the .357. Now I'm not saying that the .357 is not a fairly powerful round; however, the formula used in the Federal catalog gives somewhat skewed figures, IMO. For example, when using this formula, one is often lead to believe that a .308 or a .270 has more muzzle energy than a 12 gauge slug, a .22-250 hits harder than a 7.62X39, or that a 9mm is more powerful than a .45 ACP.

[PaiMei]

For those obsessed with ballistics should read and periodically re-read (to satisfy the obsession), “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness†by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, I think its really the best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense. Its long, but it is a treat... http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

[Marswolf]

You can generally count on the information at Firearms Tactical Institute being accurate and well thought out.

Their wound ballistics page has some good reading: http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

[Sphinx1906]

what would be a better self-defense round, .357mag or .45ACP?

i know that they will be in completely different platforms but this is just to compare the round itself.

i know that .45 is a larger round but .357 is still sufficient and proven.

no this is NOT for concealed carry. it will be for home protection only. likely be in a 5"+ barrell on both platforms.

thanks

Statistically they are about equal, however, I think the .357 Magnum has a slight advantage. It really depends more on what you shoot the best.

[Guest REDDOG79]

I personally like 45 ACP large and slow but hits hard (kinda like me). But i love to shoot revolvers and i really like 357s. I really wish my buddy would sell me his S & W 45 ACP wheel gun (can't remember the model). But in the end if i am going to carry a revolver it will be 357 but if i am carrying it is most likely a 45 ACP. The other problem is i still haven't replaced my S & W model 19 that was stolen a few years back. So all i carry will be 45s til it is replaced.

[DaveTN]

what would be a better self-defense round, .357mag or .45ACP?

The purpose of a self defense round is to stop the threat. To make an armed assailant unable or unwilling to use his weapon.

Either of those rounds is without a doubt capable of doing that.

[Guest vff]

Either a .357 or a .45 mouse gun is just fine as long as you can hit the bad guy with it, because it's accuracy above caliber. I on the other hand prefer to stick with my daily carry gun which is both accurate and of a larger caliber.

450 Marlin.

I do own one, but my real daily carry is a S&W 38 TI-337 or a Seecamp .32. LOL