better defense round - .357mag or .45ACP

[nightrunner]

what would be a better self-defense round, .357mag or .45ACP?

i know that they will be in completely different platforms but this is just to compare the round itself.

i know that .45 is a larger round but .357 is still sufficient and proven.

no this is NOT for concealed carry. it will be for home protection only. likely be in a 5"+ barrell on both platforms.

thanks

[Smith]

You can't get better than 357 mag. It is benchmark self defense round. Even the, ".45 is the greatest ever," have to bow before the 357mag.

[Marswolf]

I'd have to go for the 357 Mag. Unfortunately, I prefer pistols.

[Guest atomemphis]

God's caliber: 45 ACP. Hydrashocks.

That's what I pick.

[strickj]

He wouldnt pick hydrashoks

[Guest atomemphis]

why not?

Curious because i've never had a feed issue and I can't see why hollow points wouldn't be preferred.

[Smith]

Because Hydrashocks are about 10yrs behind bullet development. They were great when they first came on the scene, but have been surpassed in recent years.

However, in .45 expansion is not as much of an issue.

[strickj]

In my .45acp I carry round nose because it does not need any expansion and under-penetration is scarry to me

[Guest 2HOW]

You can't get better than 357 mag. It is benchmark self defense round. Even the, ".45 is the greatest ever," have to bow before the 357mag.

Put the crack pipe down, the .45 is king in gun fights.

[Guest darkstar]

Both are pretty proven rounds from all the stuff you read. A lot of the stuff I have read always points to the 125 gr .357 jhp. Of course if you go with a .45 you get at least 2 more rounds (unless you get one of those 8 shot revolvers) or more. But then again a revolver is pretty fool-proof and maybe having that at 3 in the morning might be easier all sleepy and freaked out. I don't think either is a bad choice. Go with whichever firearm feels better to you. Personally I have both on the nightstand, a Kahr in .45 and a Ruger in .357

[Im Neero]

Because Hydrashocks are about 10yrs behind bullet development. They were great when they first came on the scene, but have been surpassed in recent years.

That's a good point. While the Hydrashock may have been wonderful for dispatching the badguys of ten years ago, they hardly suffice for todays new breed of badguy.

Luckily, I haven't seen much of a change in human flesh composition over the past 10 years, and am comfortable sticking with a round that works with the badguy of yesteryear.

On topic: .357 if you like revolvers, .45 if you like pistols

[nightrunner]

im really just trying to compare the round itself at this point.

i already have a XD-45 Service w/ 13+1 capacity. im looking at a smith 686. i REALLY like revolvers and want to get one and i think that .357mag/.38special would be the best platform to get one in.

it would be hard to mess up shooting a XD unless you dont grip it correctly. the XD does have over twice the capacity and i do shoot it well. just something about the 686 that is very appealing to me

[Guest 2HOW]

Mr. Larry Fletcher, of the Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences (formerly the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences), feels that Chapter 5 misrepresents his organization’s findings. He emphatically disagrees with Marshall’s and Sanow’s recommendation of lightweight, high-velocity projectiles such as the 9mm 115gr and 115gr +P+ JHP, .357 Magnum 110gr and 125gr JHP bullets, and .45 ACP 185gr +P JHP bullets. The Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences finds the overexpansion and excessive fragmentation exhibited by these bullets results in stretch and crush cavities at too shallow a depth. Mr. Fletcher strongly emphasizes that all of these loads offer inadequate performance for law enforcement use since they exhibit insufficient penetration to consistently reach the major organs and blood vessels in the torso, especially from the transverse and oblique angles commonly encountered in law enforcement shootings. The Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences recommends cartridges which offer reasonable penetration and reliable expansion without fragmentation, such as the 9mm 147gr JHP, .40 S&W 180gr JHP, and .45 ACP 230gr JHP

The penetration depths of test shots into ordnance gelatin listed by Marshall and Sanow in Table 17-1 are considerably deeper than those reported by other wound ballistic research facilities throughout the United States, as illustrated by the following examples: Table 17-1 lists the penetration of the Winchester 147gr JHP as 15.9 inches, while data from the Southeast Missouri Regional Crime Laboratory indicates only a 13 inch average penetration; with the Federal .357 Magnum 125gr JHP, Table 17-1 lists a penetration depth of 13.3 inches, while the FBI reports only a 10.6 inch average penetration; and Table 17-1 gives a penetration depth of 17.1 inches for the Remington .45 ACP 185gr JHP, while Letterman Army Institute of Research data shows only a 10.9 inch average penetration.3,4,5

[Guest darkstar]

The 686 is a fine revolver. I had one about 10 years ago and wish I never traded it away. Another thing to consider with the .357 is it has a rather large muzzle flash and is very, very loud....might be worth considering if you plan on using as a home defense round, could be blinding and disorienting in a dark room

[Guest TNHillbilly]

If you like .357 and semi-autos, maybe a Desert Eagle.

I like my Ruger SP101 in .357, 5 rounds of IWB candy.

I only wish I could get the performance of my Security Six with 6.75" barrel in

the SP101's 2" barrel.

[Guest 2HOW]

Jim Higginbotham, a 30-year law enforcement veteran and trainer writes the following on the subject of pistol cartridges and failures to stop:

While I have come across some lethal encounters that took a lot of rounds to settle they mostly were the result of either poor hits (or complete misses) or lack of penetration. Nearly all of the high round count cases I have reviewed involved 9mms, .38s, .357’s or smaller calibers. This is not to say they do not occur with major caliber rounds. It is to say I have been collecting data for 30 years and have not encountered many cases in which multiple hits (more than three as two or three shots are a fairly normal reflex action) from major caliber cartridges to the center of the chest have not been sufficient, - the single exception being a case involving the .41 Magnum loaded with JSP bullets which did not expand - they did penetrate - it took five hits center mass to stop the attacker - and I have not encountered any with the .45, even with Ball. I have encountered several with 5, 6 or even more hits to the center of the chest with .38, .357, 9mm and .223 rifle rounds failing to stop. Almost every one could be traced to lack of penetration with a couple of exceptions that hit the heart but just did not cause enough damage to be effective quickly. Note I am not talking about "torso" hits. There is a lot of area in the torso in which a hit will seldom produce rapid incapacitation even if hit by a 12 ga. slug or a 30-06 - we simply cannot count such data if we are going to learn anything.

My purpose here is not to argue Fackler versus Marshall and Sanow because that's a book in itself. What is important in all of this is that regardless of which philosophy you choose to accept as true, the .45 ACP comes out well--at or near the top of the effectiveness ratings for both schools of thought.

[Guest aBRG2far]

Another plus to the .357 is you can use .38 special rounds, its a two'fer. I picked up an excellent cond S&W65 from CDNN for $299 a couple weeks ago, shipping was only $13. First round at the range went dead center of the head silhouette at 10yds, every round went center of mass at 25yds, I love this pistol! I put .38's in it and my wife can handle it no problem.

[Guest 2HOW]

CDNN has some great deals, I get their ad on line, If I just had the money,

[Luckyforward]

I'd go with which ever one you feel the most comfortable shooting in terms of control and recoil

[TripleDigitRide]

If a home defense weapon is what you're lookin' for, you can't go wrong with the trusty Remingtom 870.

In most cases, the "CLACK CLACK" will scare off even the most ignorant of criminals.

I know it's not a .357 or .45, but for home defense, that's what I'm rollin' with.

[nightrunner]

i have my hunting 20ga. right now but a short barrell 870 in 12 gauge is planned also. but primary use will be from the pistol.

[The Rabbi]

2 to the body, one to the head. It wont matter whether it was a .45, a .357, a hollow point or a solid. All works good.

It ends up with whatever you personally shoot best.

And not to put in my personal preference but homosexuals will prefer bigger holes. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. That's why I carry a .357.

[deerslayer]

The .357 Magnum is overrated.

[Guest Boomhower]

The .357 Magnum is overrated.

So are Glocks..... j/k..

[deerslayer]