Slug Lethality

[MiddTennTaco]

From what I understand, a shotgun slug is a .729 caliber 400+ grain beast. It's far more accurate and far more effective at long ranges. I would think it would be the ultimate round choice for HD yet everyone is crazy about 00 Buck. What am I missing? Fill me in. If you're in your house, it's not like the pellets are going to spread that much unless you live in a really big house. You STILL have to aim so I don't want to hear that argument.

Anyway, can anyone here attest to the lethality of shotgun slugs? (Whether it be hunting or other experimenting) Thanks!

[Guest]

If you missed, wouldn't the slug travel through more obstacles (i.e. walls, etc.) before stopping?

[Guest bkelm18]

Penetration. Recoil.

[Oh Shoot]

...I would think it would be the ultimate round choice for HD yet everyone is crazy about 00 Buck. What am I missing? Fill me in. If you're in your house, it's not like the pellets are going to spread that much unless you live in a really big house. You STILL have to aim so I don't want to hear that argument....

9-12 .33 projectiles entering an area significantly larger than the slug at any distance, any of those projectiles capable of lethality. Would seem to me the odds favor the double naught up to 25 yards or so?

- OS

[mikegideon]

9-12 .33 projectiles entering an area significantly larger than the slug at any distance, any of those projectiles capable of lethality. Would seem to me the odds favor the double naught up to 25 yards or so?

- OS

I'm with you, old wise one

[Dolomite_supafly]

I was speaking to a LE that had some ehnaced accuracy buckshot loads. He said the could make headsots at 10 yards easily with all pellets hitting within a few inches of each other. And that was throguh a smooth bore gun.

Dolomite

[dats82]

Never killed anything with buckshot, but a deer at 40 yrds will drop like a rock with a slug.

I am not a physicist, but it makes sense to me that the buck shot will transfer more energy per round into the target than a slug will. I have never tested this, but I believe a slug would also exit a body. Anytime a round exits the target, energy is lost. If there are multiple projectiles with the same conglomerate mass, it will be easier to stop each projectile individually than it would be to stop one single projectile of the same mass. Therefore, if a given round has the same grains of projectile be it single or multiple projectiles, the slug and the buckshot will have the same energy, but the buckshot will transfer more of that energy to the target as each individual pellet is less likely to exit.

This is my untested theory, but it seems reasonable in my simple mind.

[MiddTennTaco]

Never killed anything with buckshot, but a deer at 40 yrds will drop like a rock with a slug.

I am not a physicist, but it makes sense to me that the buck shot will transfer more energy per round into the target than a slug will. I have never tested this, but I believe a slug would also exit a body. Anytime a round exits the target, energy is lost. If there are multiple projectiles with the same conglomerate mass, it will be easier to stop each projectile individually than it would be to stop one single projectile of the same mass. Therefore, if a given round has the same grains of projectile be it single or multiple projectiles, the slug and the buckshot will have the same energy, but the buckshot will transfer more of that energy to the target as each individual pellet is less likely to exit.

This is my untested theory, but it seems reasonable in my simple mind.

sounds good to me aswell

[Caster]

I cast a 525g slug for 12g. It looks like a GIANT pellet. It's pretty much a full wadcutter of sorts. I cast it from pure lead so it's soft as butter. Whatever it hits....is gonna bleed out REALLY fast. Like firehose fast.

[Guest Baron]

My shotgun is loaded with #4 Buck with slugs in the side saddle. #4 is plenty at 20-25 feet with little chance of anything traveling outside the house (and a smaller chance of next room).

To me, 00 is for outside ... or inside a property that is not yours.

[Shorty]

If you're concerned with which one is better to have, why not load a slug followed by buckshot? Personally I'd be hesitant to use a slug inside my home. Or you could go another route and take a look at Winchester PDX1 shells, a slug with three 00 pellets loaded on top of it.

[Guest chrisdridley]

I cast a 525g slug for 12g. It looks like a GIANT pellet. It's pretty much a full wadcutter of sorts. I cast it from pure lead so it's soft as butter. Whatever it hits....is gonna bleed out REALLY fast. Like firehose fast.

X2....the slug will most likely make a big hole where it enters and a huge hole where it exits. OO buck will make a bunch of small holes from moderate range and bounce around inside. I've killed deer with both and for a quick kill, the slug will get the job done better than the OO buckshot.

[Caster]

For anyone curious: The slug I mentioned casting v/s a defunct hard drive I shot it twice. It took me a few minutes to find it after the first shot. I set it up and hit it again and the parts flew everywhere. I can fit my thumb through either of those holes.

[East_TN_Patriot]

The issue is over-penetration with slugs vs. 00 buckshot. At close range, the spread on 00 buckshot is minimal and the energy is contained within the body as opposed to a slug, which will pass completely through the target. This is a potential problem if you live in a neighborhood or apartment complex where there is a risk of your slug passing through walls and striking an unintended victim. When we did ballistic vest testing at my old police department, a vest with a trauma pack will stop buckshot or a slug, but the blunt force trauma is so extensive from either that it's virtually unsurvivable. I keep my shotty loaded with 00 buckshot now, and I kept it loaded with 00 buckshot when I was a street cop and had slugs available on a side saddle in case I needed to engage a target inside of a vehicle or behind a barricade of some sort.

[MiddTennTaco]

The issue is over-penetration with slugs vs. 00 buckshot. At close range, the spread on 00 buckshot is minimal and the energy is contained within the body as opposed to a slug, which will pass completely through the target. This is a potential problem if you live in a neighborhood or apartment complex where there is a risk of your slug passing through walls and striking an unintended victim. When we did ballistic vest testing at my old police department, a vest with a trauma pack will stop buckshot or a slug, but the blunt force trauma is so extensive from either that it's virtually unsurvivable. I keep my shotty loaded with 00 buckshot now, and I kept it loaded with 00 buckshot when I was a street cop and had slugs available on a side saddle in case I needed to engage a target inside of a vehicle or behind a barricade of some sort.

Yeah that's what I'm doing now. I have a tube of eight rounds of 00 buck with four slugs/two 00 buck in my side saddle.

I have thought a few times about putting a slug first in line in the magazine tube just so my first shot is "accurate" if I need it to be, lol. I'm still undecided.

[TMF]

I'm sure if an intruder was to be engaged with 00 Buck vs a slug his response would most likely not be "F*** you! Is that all you got?" He would most likely bleed and die. The advantage of buck over slug is that there is less of a requirement on accuracy with the spread pattern, which is good in a situation where you have to engage someone. To put it in perspective, if you have to shoot someone it's going to be for a very good reason, such as that person is presenting themselves as a threat and must be immediately neutralized. Not everyone is going to have the presence of mind to properly aim before squeezing the trigger. They are most likely going to try to get rounds out in the general direction of the threat as quickly as possible to make that threat go away.

[Guest bkelm18]

Yeah that's what I'm doing now. I have a tube of eight rounds of 00 buck with four slugs/two 00 buck in my side saddle.

I have thought a few times about putting a slug first in line in the magazine tube just so my first shot is "accurate" if I need it to be, lol. I'm still undecided.

At household distances, the spread pattern of the buckshot will be minimal, so accuracy will pretty much be the same.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Though my shotty, 00 buck creates a solid hole about the size of a tennis ball at 10 feet. Inside my house there aren't a lot of places I would be taking a shot more than a few feet longer than that. Group stays more or less solid for basically all my intended inside ranges. I will take a tennis ball sized hole in someone's chest over a thumb sized hole any day of the week.

[Jonnin]

Never killed anything with buckshot, but a deer at 40 yrds will drop like a rock with a slug. I am not a physicist, but it makes sense to me that the buck shot will transfer more energy per round into the target than a slug will. I have never tested this, but I believe a slug would also exit a body. Anytime a round exits the target, energy is lost. If there are multiple projectiles with the same conglomerate mass, it will be easier to stop each projectile individually than it would be to stop one single projectile of the same mass. Therefore, if a given round has the same grains of projectile be it single or multiple projectiles, the slug and the buckshot will have the same energy, but the buckshot will transfer more of that energy to the target as each individual pellet is less likely to exit. This is my untested theory, but it seems reasonable in my simple mind.

Probably. But even 00 will exit a body, them pellets are big, so by this logic birdshot is better stilll (it is not, but it would transfer more energy at short ranges). There is a happy medium between energy and momentum. The slug is better if you hit a vital area: a devestating aimed shot. The buckshot is better if you point shoot up close, giving more hits = higher chance of hitting something important. Different tools for different uses, but the most common scenarios for a shotgun are home defense, at ranges best given in feet rather than yards, and buckshot would be superior there.

[MiddTennTaco]

I'm gonna switch out for birdshot then, lol.

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[Guest Darthlaidher]

If you live in the country and don't have kids I'd use 1oz slug, live in a neighborhood id go with buckshot. I wouldn't use birdshot though unless you want to just turn them into hamburger and not kill them. Not to mention birdshot wouldn't be effective if the person is wearing a leather biker jacket or something of that sort.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Want2BeFree

[EastHipster]

Box of Truth has an investing article on this: The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

His basic findings:

Slugs penetrate more than Rifle or Handgun.

Smaller Buck (#4) doesn't penetrate enough to reach vital organs.

Birdshot doesn't penetrate

[Guest Baron]

I will stick with #4 buck for inside my house. Twenty-one 6mm pellets traveling 1,100 FPS will put a 2-4 inch wound channel that is deep enough to give anyone an attitude adjustment. I also have less of a chance of having 100 gallons of water on my office floor from a shattered aquarium or a dead pet that went hiding in the next room.

I hate when some makes a remark about any round "not knocking someone down". Most of us know the laws of physics. I am also weary of the "sound of a racking slide" debate. I don't care if the "chu-chuck" sound scares them or not. Its that soon to follow BANG!

As for birdshot, there was a Tennessee woman who was shot with it from close range not too long ago. She lived, but lost her arm and a good chuck of her face (my guess she was hit in the shoulder).

[Dolomite_supafly]

I will stick with #4 buck for inside my house. Twenty-one 6mm pellets traveling 1,100 FPS will put a 2-4 inch wound channel that is deep enough to give anyone an attitude adjustment. I also have less of a chance of having 100 gallons of water on my office floor from a shattered aquarium or a dead pet that went hiding in the next room.

I hate when some makes a remark about any round "not knocking someone down". Most of us know the laws of physics. I am also weary of the "sound of a racking slide" debate. I don't care if the "chu-chuck" sound scares them or not. Its that soon to follow BANG!

As for birdshot, there was a Tennessee woman who was shot with it from close range not too long ago. She lived, but lost her arm and a good chuck of her face (my guess she was hit in the shoulder).

I was in Walmart the other day as a young kid was vigourously racking the slide on several shotguns. He told the clerk, who was also young, that you want the loudest racking shotgun you can buy. He said you won't have to shoot an intruder, just rack the slide and they will run away.

Same kid was checking out some of the new "tactical" rifles at Walmart as well. When he pushed the magazine release and the magazine dropped free he became alarmed. He said the magazines shouldn't drop free like that and that you should have to pull them out of the gun.

Dolomite

[Guest bkelm18]

His basic findings:

Slugs penetrate more than Rifle or Handgun.

Smaller Buck (#4) doesn't penetrate enough to reach vital organs.

Birdshot doesn't penetrate

I don't buy that. All the gelatin tests I've seen on #4 buck have at least 12" of penetration.