Well this was probably a mistake...

[Guest lostpass]

Not talking about carving people up, I'm talking about carving food up. I do most all the cooking around here and I currently roll with a motley collection of really bad knives and a few half decent knives. I'm looking to get a decent set of knives (butcher, boning, paring) and I'm interested in what other folks use and like.

I'm thinking plain carbon steel is better because the kitchen knives I have that are made of carbon steel are so much easier to sharpen. While a sharp knife isn't super important for edc, you can open a box with a rusty bed spring, it can be important for cooking. Advice?

[Guest pfries]

I Worked in Restaurants when I was younger; it was my first passion (and no not Shoney’s or BK) more upscale.

I have Trident, Henkel, Wusthof, and Sysco

Ironically the Sysco are the ones I reach for the most, well balanced, sharpen easy enough and with a good steel and proper care they go a long time between. They are very affordable; if I remember correctly I bought mine at Costco (like a Sam's for those that don't know)

[Oh Shoot]

Perhaps some Old Hickories?

None are expensive, still made in US by Ontario.

You can put a forced patina on them with mustard so they don't rust.

I have Cold Steel Long Hunter, Western Hunter, and Roach Belly in the ole kitchen rotation, but they are all stainless Krupp.

I do have one big unusual Mora high carbon in there also; it rusted before I could even dry it, but three sessions with mustard on it for an hour or two each time cured that.

- OS

Edited November 8, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest lostpass]

I do have an old hickory. It's all rusted and crap cause I throw it in the dishwasher and that guy's blood is semi acidic or something. But it is actually the best knife I own for cooking. It always rusts but never rusts much. I think you're right, a set of old hickory will be right up my alley.

[Oh Shoot]

I do have an old hickory. It's all rusted and crap cause I throw it in the dishwasher and that guy's blood is semi acidic or something. But it is actually the best knife I own for cooking. It always rusts but never rusts much. I think you're right, a set of old hickory will be right up my alley.

Clean it with steel wool or Brillo or something, then do the mustard, ballpark to Poupon, they all work, truly amazing.

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

I Worked in Restaurants when I was younger; it was my first passion (and no not Shoney’s or BK) more upscale.

I have Trident, Henkel, Wusthof, and Sysco

Ironically the Sysco are the ones I reach for the most, well balanced, sharpen easy enough and with a good steel and proper care they go a long time between. They are very affordable; if I remember correctly I bought mine at Costco (like a Sam's for those that don't know)

So pfries, if that is your real name, is it the black diamond series? Cause I could pick that up as a set and it would be just what I was looking for. Knives are weird, the go from super cheap and about useless to all you can stand to spend plus. But there is no clear delineation between when you're paying for quality and when you are paying for pretention. I was hoping for some feedback like that.

Thanks.

[Loon160T]

Cook's Illustrated just did a story on their Best Buy a La Carte Knife Set and, not surprisingly, Victorinox took most of the top spots.

I have all the Victorinox knifes recommended and I've been extremely happy with all of them.

[Guest lostpass]

Clean it with steel wool or Brillo or something, then do the mustard, ballpark to Poupon, they all work, truly amazing.

- OS

You have the advantage, Sir. I am not familiar with this mustard finish option. I've looked a bit (not too much) with google and I see a lot of people making patterns with it. I suspect you're telling me that if I dunk the old hickory in mustard (stone ground without a doubt) for for some period time it will stop the rust. Which would be nifty, I really do like that knife.

So got anymore hints. An hour? A year? A year and an hour? Complete submersion? Light coating? These are crucial questions. Now I want some sausage, crackers and mustard.

Edited November 9, 2011 by lostpass

[Oh Shoot]

You have the advantage, Sir. I am not familiar with this mustard finish option. I've looked a bit (not too much) with google and I see a lot of people making patterns with it. I suspect you're telling me that if I dunk the old hickory in mustard (stone ground without a doubt) for for some period time it will stop the rust. Which would be nifty, I really do like that knife.

So got anymore hints. An hour? A year? A year and an hour? Complete submersion? Light coating? These are crucial questions. Now I want some sausage, crackers and mustard.

I just smear a bunch around let it sit till mustard about dries, two hours maybe. Clean it off, dry, and do it again. Or a third time, whatever. Turns knife splotchy dark, but smooth, and creates barrier against rust.

If you need it to look nice or patterned, best look for better tutorial, 'cause mine ain't beautiful.

I've done it to an old Old Hickory I dug up out of the bottom of tackle box, hadn't used it in 20 years, and also to a big Mora that was the worst knife to rust I've ever used. Both haven't shown any rust since, use them all the time in the kitchen.

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

I just smear a bunch around let it sit till mustard about dries, two hours maybe. Clean it off, dry, and do it again. Or a third time, whatever. Turns knife splotchy dark, but smooth, and creates barrier against rust.

If you need it to look nice or patterned, best look for better tutorial, 'cause mine ain't beautiful.

I've done it to an old Old Hickory I dug up out of the bottom of tackle box, hadn't used it in 20 years, and also to a big Mora that was the worst knife to rust I've ever used. Both haven't shown any rust since, use them all the time in the kitchen.

- OS

]

I will report back tomorrow. Honestly don't care about looks, this isn't for a tactical application, this is tacticooks!

[Guest lostpass]

Cook's Illustrated just did a story on their Best Buy a La Carte Knife Set and, not surprisingly, Victorinox took most of the top spots.

I have all the Victorinox knifes recommended and I've been extremely happy with all of them.

Thanks Loon, I'll add victorinox to the list

[Guest pfries]

So pfries, if that is your real name, is it the black diamond series? Cause I could pick that up as a set and it would be just what I was looking for. Knives are weird, the go from super cheap and about useless to all you can stand to spend plus. But there is no clear delineation between when you're paying for quality and when you are paying for pretention. I was hoping for some feedback like that.

Thanks.

Mine have a different handle (rubberized) but yes they are identical otherwise.

[hkgonra]

I have heard that vinegar works as well as mustard, anyone ever tried it ?

[Oh Shoot]

I have heard that vinegar works as well as mustard, anyone ever tried it ?

It's the vinegar in the mustard that does most (or all) of it.

The mustard mixture just makes it handy to stick around on the blade without evaporating quickly, makes it non-uniform in appearance, and doesn't go too far, too soon.

Submerging in pure vinegar, according to some folks, permeates the the steel deeper, but slower, since there's no oxidation from the air. More uniform finish generally, though. Some soak a cloth in the vinegar and wrap that around blade. Some use "hold back" methods to etch parts of blade at a time, to create more precise patterns, etc.

Lots of techniques for forced patina; even a potato seems to work.

There are of course commercial chem preps that folks use too; the Bill Akers in another recent thread here probably got one of them.

edit: I've never done it but on these two, an oddball Mora and an Old Hickory. I didn't even clean up the primary polished bevel on the Mora, the actual edge is very sharp though. As I said, I didn't do it for looks, but to stop rust, which it does very well.

Ya can't tell scale in pic but both are apprx. 8" blades.

- OS

Edited November 10, 2011 by OhShoot

[Moped]

Target carries the Victorinox cutlery last time I looked. They have a good reputation. Ragweed Forge for Mora. They now make a large butcher/camp knife in carbon steel that is nice. Smokey Mountain Knife Works has a complete set of Old Hickory Knives for around $30. I recommend the mustard treatment for any carbon steel blade you are going to use in the kitchen, unless you are diligent about hand washing, then drying it immediately. If your going to do that, then think about applying a light coat of oil to protect it. Olive oil will do nicely. I actually use a Mora Triflex that I use in the kitchen a lot. I hand wash it and then put it away. Sharpest knife I own in the kitchen. Not much of patina on it and no rust at all.

[Guest lostpass]

Okay, so I've decided to try it out.

first my crappy, usually rusty Ontario kitchen knife. I thought it was Chicago cutlery but I was wrong. Ontario knives are terrible for all I know. Anyway, I spent some time getting it semi shiny. The good news is that I didn't cut myself. The bad news is that I didn't do the worlds greatest job. All I had was some 180 and 2000 grit sandpaper.

Not the best with knives I guess. Plus I don't one of those cool buffing wheels.

I coated it with a generous coating of mustard. I used plochmans which I only note for the sake of repeatability. Here's a blurry photo of the knife covered in mustard. Why is it blurry? Cause I am a crappy photographer. There, I admitted it. You happy now? Are you?

Thankfully TGO will scale the pics down cause they've got wayyyy too many pixels for the actual level of interest.

My plan is to let that mustard sit there over night and see what I'm left with in the morning.

As mentioned earlier this is an Ontario knife that I really like. It is just carbon steel but I can keep it sharper than any other kitchen knife I own. I suppose that is cause it is plain old carbon steel. To be honest an entire set of carbon steel knives seems attractive. You know: Butcher, boning, paring, stabbing an enemy to death. The standard stuff. Oh, and a cleaver for the zombies.

Sadly my adventure went a bit too far. I was able to get the knife a little shiny and since I really like shiny knives my mind started working. I've got this stonewashed kershaw blur that would be infinitely better if it was really shiny. Suddenly, kershaw met sandpaper.

It was a stupid idea but I sanded that sucker for some time, hit it with some polishing compound and.....

Pretty damn shiny. You can see the reflection of my hand in the blade and the iPhone I used to take the crappy pic. here's the other side (I haven't messed with it yet) for comparison:

I'd like to polish up both sides to a high sheen but that means taking the knife apart and so forth and right now I'm more interested in the mustard coating.

[Oh Shoot]

....first my crappy, usually rusty Ontario kitchen knife. I thought it was Chicago cutlery but I was wrong. Ontario knives are terrible for all I know. ...

Ontario has been around since 1898, made lots of military contract knives, etc. Only thing I've ever heard them dissed for was the RAT hissy fit, not sure who was bad guy in that.

Did Chicago Cutlery originally make the Old Hickories? I disremember.

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

Ontario has been around since 1898, made lots of military contract knives, etc. Only thing I've ever heard them dissed for was the RAT hissy fit, not sure who was bad guy in that.

Did Chicago Cutlery originally make the Old Hickories? I disremember.

- OS

Yeah, I got confused. So, from what I can tell, Ontario knives still makes old hickory. And that is the knife I just mustared. Somehow I went from Old Hickory to Chicago cutlery to not realizing that I started with old hickory in the first place. No surprise, I am easily befuddled.

[Moped]

Ontario has always made Old Hickory as far as I know.

[gregintenn]

I bought a Forschner boning knife from Smoky Mountain Knife Works, mainly because that knife was what I kept seeing in butcher shops. I could not be happier with it! It wasn't very expensive. It takes and holds an edge very well. The handle is comfortable. I believe these are now labeled Victorinox.

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, I got confused. So, from what I can tell, Ontario knives still makes old hickory. And that is the knife I just mustared....

Well, how did the high tech condiment treatment work?

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

Well, how did the high tech condiment treatment work?

- OS

I didn't use tactical mustard or anything, though there is a probably a nice living selling tactical mustard, but the blade just got stained up and darker. As far as rust proofing goes, it is hard to say. I'd pull the knife every week or so and there would be rust. It hasn't been a week yet so a fair comparison isn't available.

My inclination is to think that some kind of sacrificial reaction has happened. The blade is definitely discolored but as smooth as ever. I think a reaction has happened and because it is smooth that it isn't rust. At tis point, I'm going to need a little more time to figure out what is going on.

All that noted, when I get a nice set of carbon blades I'm giving them the mustard treatment. The stains are horrible but the rust resistance is fantastic. Plus you can sharpen those those things very easily.

[Oh Shoot]

... The blade is definitely discolored but as smooth as ever. I think a reaction has happened and because it is smooth that it isn't rust. At tis point, I'm going to need a little more time to figure out what is going on....

Well, the patina is oxidized, but stable -- think of it as "black rust" instead of "red rust" which isn't stable and continues to erode the blade. (speaking on cutting edge molecular engineering level here, of course).

As I said, it ain't pretty, but protective. Ya might want to do it a second time to make sure all the surface area reacted. Don't forget the top edge too.

- OS