Killing mold

[E4 No More]

I saw this on another forum and thought it was good info for here too...

[h=2] Mold killer - highly effective formula[/h]

I've used this formula for years and realized I should share it here at TGT.

This formula eats o-rings/seals in hand pump spray bottles. Rinse bottle including pump mechanism with water

thoroughly

after each use if you expect to reuse bottle. Even then, bottle is only good for a few uses. The shelf life of this mixture is extremely short so I recommend you mix only what you need. I learned that by using some @ 2 months after I'd mixed it. The 'old' stuff was nearly ineffective.

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Please, do not call mold 'mildew'. It's like calling a magazine a 'clip' for those in the know.

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Public release date: 17-Feb-2006

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Contact: Jim Sliwa

jsliwa@asmusa.org

202-942-9297

American Society for Microbiology

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Vinegar increases killing power of bleach

Adding white vinegar to diluted household bleach greatly increases the disinfecting power of the solution, making it strong enough to kill even bacterial spores. Researchers from MicroChem Lab, Inc. in Euless, Texas, report their findings today at the 2006 ASM Biodefense Research Meeting.

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Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) in the form of laundry bleach is available in most households. The concentrate is about 5.25 to 6 percent NaOCl, and the pH value is about 12. Sodium hypochlorite is stable for many months at this high alkaline pH value.

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"Laundry bleach is commonly diluted about 10 to 25-fold with tap water to about 2000 to 5000 parts per million of free available chlorine for use as an environmental surface disinfectant, without regard to the pH value of the diluted bleach. However,

the pH value is very important for the antimicrobial effectiveness of bleach

," says Norman Miner, a researcher on the study.

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At alkaline pH values of about 8.5 or higher, more than 90 percent of the bleach is in the form of the chlorite ion (OCl-), which is relatively ineffective antimicrobially. At acidic pH values of about 6.8 or lower, more than 80 percent of the bleach is in the form of hypochlorite (HOCl).

HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-.

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"Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range," says Miner.

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Miner and his colleagues compared the ability of alkaline (pH 11) and acidified (pH 6) bleach dilutions to disinfect surfaces contaminated with dried bacterial spores, considered the most resistant to disinfectants of all microbes. The alkaline dilution was practically ineffective, killing all of the spores on only 2.5 percent of the surfaces after 20 minutes. During the same time period the acidified solution killed all of the spores on all of the surfaces.

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"Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything in 10 to 20 minutes," says Miner. "In the event of an emergency involving Bacillus anthracis spores contaminating such environmental surfaces as counter tops, desk and table tops, and floors, for example, virtually every household has a sporicidal sterilant available in the form of diluted, acidified bleach."

Miner recommends first

diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of

white

vinegar

.

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###

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MicroChem Lab can be found online at

www.microchemlab.net

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The American Society for Microbiology (ASM) is the largest single life science society, composed of over 42,000 scientists, teachers, physicians, and health professionals. Its mission is to promote research and training in the microbiological sciences and to assist communication between scientists, policymakers, and the public to improve health, economic well-being, and the environment.

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Further information on the ASM Biodefense Research Meeting can be found online at

www.asmbiodefense.org

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[Oh Shoot]

Umm, this makes chlorine gas, which can also kill YOU -- just thought I'd mention.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

Umm, this makes chlorine gas, which can also kill YOU -- just thought I'd mention.

- OS

This. The products of the ensuing reaction are water, acetate, and chlorine gas.

2HOCl + 2CH₃COOH ↔ Cl₂ + 2H₂O + 2(CH₃COO)-

Edited November 7, 2011 by bkelm18

[E4 No More]

Your tap water has chlorine gas in it too...are you concerned with that as well?

The instructions say to dilute a cup of bleach with a gallon of water before adding the white vinegar?

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3

0

OX

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Chlorine is a toxic gas that irritates the respiratory system. Because it is heavier than air, it tends to accumulate at the bottom of poorly ventilated spaces. Chlorine gas is a strong oxidizer, which may react with flammable materials.^[53]

Chlorine is detectable with measuring devices in concentrations of as low as 0.2 parts per million (ppm), and by smell at 3 ppm. Coughing and vomiting may occur at 30 ppm and lung damage at 60 ppm. About 1000 ppm can be fatal after a few deep breaths of the gas.^[23] Breathing lower concentrations can aggravate the respiratory system, and exposure to the gas can irritate the eyes.^[54] The toxicity of chlorine comes from its oxidizing power. When chlorine is inhaled at concentrations above 30 ppm, it begins to react with water and cells, which change it into hydrochloric acid (HCl) and hypochlorous acid (HClO).

When used at specified levels for water disinfection, the reaction of chlorine with water is not a major concern for human health. However, other materials present in the water may generate disinfection by-products that can damage human health.

[Oh Shoot]

Your tap water has chlorine gas in it too...are you concerned with that as well?

The instructions say to dilute a cup of bleach with a gallon of water before adding the white vinegar?,,,,

Chlorine is detectable with measuring devices in concentrations of as low as 0.2 parts per million (ppm), and by smell at 3 ppm. Coughing and vomiting may occur at 30 ppm and lung damage at 60 ppm. About 1000 ppm can be fatal after a few deep breaths of the gas.^[23] Breathing lower concentrations can aggravate the respiratory system, and exposure to the gas can irritate the eyes.^[54] ...

What's your point?

To emphasize MY point that you should be very careful with it, which your first post didn't even mention?

Like, it eats o-rings and plastic bottles but a person is impervious to it?

How many PPM of chlorine gas does this formula create?

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

Edited: Nvm. If chlorine gas doesn't concern you, best of luck. Be safe.

[Timestepper]

Let us weep for my little cat

For he will prowl no more.

What he thought was H2O

Was H2SO4...

[E4 No More]

Just like anything else on this website you can take or leave it as you wish. I just copied and pasted what I thought would be helpful. Considering the source of the info compared to the concerns raised by some here I'm not afraid.

[Guest pfries]

I appreciate it,

I did my research and will use it in the future.

Just as with handling a firearm, reloading or casting lead,

safety practices, knowledge and common sense are key.

[mav]

Just like anything else on this website you can take or leave it as you wish. I just copied and pasted what I thought would be helpful. Considering the source of the info compared to the concerns raised by some here I'm not afraid.

Don't worry about it.

Don't be intimidated by the GenChem 101 crap posted earlier. It is entirely wrong. It is way more complex than what was posted. I do this stuff for a living and have 15 years of experience, and I would have sit down for a few moments and think about how to balance out everything that is present in solution.

As far as the article goes, the solution is fairly weak and is only mildly acidic (6.0 - 6.8). There are also sodium ions present from the sodium hypochlorite, excess sodium hydroxide, and from any additional additives such as sodium carbonate and sodium polyacrylate. While it is possible you may liberate a small amount of chlorine gas, the dilution, pH, and sodium ions present will limit that. My best guess based on a few quick and crude calculations would put this around 8 - 10 times stronger than your swiming pool. Even though I am not recommending this, I think you would be okay with this mix if used in a well ventilated environment.

Normally, it is not very wise to mix hypochlorites with acids. If you use the wrong acid (concrete cleaner - hydrochloric acid) and the pH gets too low, then you could be into some trouble. Therefore, I don't know if I would recommend this procedure for a lot of people out there because it lowers the fear of mixing acids with bleach, which really isn't a good thing. Additionally, there are other alternatives available that are much safer. Concentrated peroxide solutions (~10% or more) have been shown to be very effective in killing mold. I believe that some people have started marketing and selling peroxy-based mold killers.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I found some of the info questionable, but it was interesting nonetheless.

[Guest bkelm18]

Don't worry about it.

Don't be intimidated by the GenChem 101 crap posted earlier. It is entirely wrong. It is way more complex than what was posted. I do this stuff for a living and have 15 years of experience, and I would have sit down for a few moments and think about how to balance out everything that is present in solution.

As far as the article goes, the solution is fairly weak and is only mildly acidic (6.0 - 6.8). There are also sodium ions present from the sodium hypochlorite, excess sodium hydroxide, and from any additional additives such as sodium carbonate and sodium polyacrylate. While it is possible you may liberate a small amount of chlorine gas, the dilution, pH, and sodium ions present will limit that. My best guess based on a few quick and crude calculations would put this around 8 - 10 times stronger than your swiming pool. Even though I am not recommending this, I think you would be okay with this mix if used in a well ventilated environment.

Normally, it is not very wise to mix hypochlorites with acids. If you use the wrong acid (concrete cleaner - hydrochloric acid) and the pH gets too low, then you could be into some trouble. Therefore, I don't know if I would recommend this procedure for a lot of people out there because it lowers the fear of mixing acids with bleach, which really isn't a good thing. Additionally, there are other alternatives available that are much safer. Concentrated peroxide solutions (~10% or more) have been shown to be very effective in killing mold. I believe that some people have started marketing and selling peroxy-based mold killers.

Anyway, thanks for posting. I found some of the info questionable, but it was interesting nonetheless.

GenChem crap? Give me a break. It's a simple reaction. One of the products is Cl2. You admitted so yourself. That's all I was illustrating. Didn't mean to intrude on your chemical prowess.

[mav]

GenChem crap? Give me a break. It's a simple reaction. One of the products is Cl2. You admitted so yourself. That's all I was illustrating. Didn't mean to intrude on your chemical prowess.

Lighten up Francis.

The reaction you posted is probably understood by less than 1% of the forum, if that much. Therefore, it comes off a little intimidating, intended or not. Since it is not complete as to what is happening within the system, it is somewhat misleading. As I stated in my post, there are many factors to consider in what was suggested before either accepting or dismissing it as being unsafe.

[Guest pfries]

Now if Phosgene gas (COCl2) was being released I would be more worried about it.