Looking for a new Electric Scale

[Guest BobPayne44]

I have been using the small hornady scale and getting tired of it shutting off after about 30 seconds of no use

im still new to reloading and like to measure my charges atleast every 10th round or sometimes i will measure everytime i have to turn the case feeder tubes on my loadmaster

id like to find one that runs on ac and will not shut off by itself.

thanks

[mikegideon]

I have an RCBS Rangemaster 750 that works real well. You may want to check out that one.

[Westwindmike]

I have been using the Dillon Determinator for about 8 years now and it works good.

[gnmwilliams]

I hate my scale. I think it's lying to me. It tells me I'm 300lbs. Oh wait! Wrong kind of scale! I do hear great things about the Dillons though.

[Cherokee Slim]

I have an RCBS Rangemaster 750 that works real well. You may want to check out that one.

+1 for this scale. We weigh every 10th round coming out of my Dillon just to make sure they are all close to the same. I've been happy with mine. I got it from Midway.

Cherokee Slim

[mikegideon]

+1 for this scale. We weigh every 10th round coming out of my Dillon just to make sure they are all close to the same. I've been happy with mine. I got it from Midway.

Cherokee Slim

I did a LOT of looking before I bought my RCBS scales. It's easy to get a bad one. I use an RCBS Chargemaster for everything, but would be using a powder drop if I was going for volume. Before the Chargemaster, I was using a Uniflow, and checking with the Rangemaster.

Probably the best resource is the reviews on the Midway site. Even the best scales can be hit or miss, because the load cells are delicate. I bought a Lyman that didn't work at all.

[gregintenn]

My balance beam scale never shuts off or needs batteries.

[mikegideon]

My balance beam scale never shuts off or needs batteries.

Rcbs 1010

[MarkInNashville]

+1 for this scale. We weigh every 10th round coming out of my Dillon just to make sure they are all close to the same. I've been happy with mine. I got it from Midway.

Cherokee Slim

Since I am the third person to say RCBS Rangemaster 750 does that make it a +3? Well whatever it is the 750 is a workhorse! I paid around $115, shipped for mine (I found it using one of those price comparison sites). I bought it because I had used a friends... and he liked it too!

[dlm37015]

i use an rcbs 304 1 of the few rcbs items i use its a lab scale works great have several digital scales but usually go back to this one

[Guest BobPayne44]

Ordered the rcbs 750 yesterday

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt via Tapatalk

[mikegideon]

i use an rcbs 304 1 of the few rcbs items i use its a lab scale works great have several digital scales but usually go back to this one

I have a little more faith in a beam scale's accuracy, but LOVE my Chargemaster. Every charge is trickled to within a 10th of a grain. I have clocked some of my loads, and the velocity is real consistent.

Like I said earlier, If I was loading high volume, I would be using a regular powder thrower.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Tacking on here rather than post a new thread.

Am not smart about scales but have been thinking about it for awhile. Often when I write a long piece, ain't trying to be a know-it-all. Am writing in hope that folks who know better will correct my misconceptions and volunteer more/better info. Got "a little bit" interested in scales themselves in addition to the reloading connection.

Been "getting by" with an old Lyman that was maybe $80 long ago, which would sell for about $20 today. It will weigh 20 grams max at 0.01 gram resolution, or alternately 308 gn at 0.1 gn resolution.

A couple years ago got (for weighing precious metals and other assorted gadgets) a couple of $60 scales from americanweigh.com, which is a pretty good company. They were both the exact same chassis, one 2000 grams X 0.1 gram, and the other 500 grams X 0.01 gram resolution. Also got an assortment of inexpensive checkweights, class M1 which ain't real precise, but fun to play with. A little plastic box of checkweights from 10 mg to 200 g for about $25 and some assorted other M1 weights good enough to specify any weight up to 4 kg to a 10 mg resolution. Well, there would be a few milligrams of slop because they are only M1 weights. The smaller individual weights costing a few bucks and the kg weights maybe costing $15.

That americanweigh 0.1 gram resolution scale has worked great, but there was always something funky wrong with the 0.01 gram resolution scale. Never got around to sending it back, too much hassle. If the 0.01 resolution scale had worked as good as its 0.1 gram identical sibling, I would have replaced the Lyman reloading scale with it. There was just something wrong with mine and shoulda sent it back for replacement but never got around to it. Gave me the impression that it might be somewhat a "gamble" paying not much for a scale if you expect it to work right. OTOH that 0.1 gram $60 scale still works fabulous.

They were so much fun to play with, eventually got a heavier-capacity acculab that weighs up to 10 kg at 1 gram resolution. Not for reloading, except maybe small cannons. But was real pleased the with acculab performance for the money, weighing big stuff somewhat accurately.

Been hankering for a milligram scale for reloading and other assorted purposes, like knowing how much a 1 oz silver coin weighs to the milligram rather than to the tenth of a gram. Not that such would be earthshaking important. Several times spent hours looking at various scales and almost buying one, but not quite convinced of buying the right one. Last week got into that loop again, and finally managed to pull the trigger on one.

The balances.com is a very good educational website. Lots of education on scales, very good specs on the models, and many educational youtube videos.

Acculab was the "inexpensive" subsidiary of Sartorius, and a couple of years ago Sartorius shut down Acculab and started selling the Acculab line with the Sartorius brand name, except a different paint job. A couple of "inexpensive" milligram scales that have been popular with reloaders are the AY-123 (120 grams X 0.001 gram) and AY-303 (300 grams X 0.001 gram). Arguably a little better than typical reloading-company powder scales, at higher price. Balances.com sells the AY-123 for about $240 though their posted web price is higher because of contractual obligations. Even though 120 gram max is fine for most reloading, once ya spend that kinda money was thinking the AY-303 might make more sense because it would be a bummer to maybe want to measure a 250 or 300 gram thang at milligram resolution and not be able to, and then regret not spending a few more bucks for the AY-303.

Balances.com and some picky precision reloaders complain about the "cheap" Sartorius milligram scales because they use strain gage sensors which drift and don't have "right on the money" linearity. Good for the money but not perfect. Most likely better than a typical reloading company powder scale, but with similar problems, just that the problems are not quite so bad.

So anyway, the "epitome" cheapest magnetic force restoration sensor scales that blow away the strain gage sensor milligram scales are supposedly the A&D FX 120i at $660, and a Sartorius magnetic sensor scale at $1050. Spent too much time deliberating whether it was worth that much money to have something "pretty dang kewl" and not have to worry so much about drift, linearity and hysteresis. But finally decided maybe I'm crazy enough to buy a $300 scale but am not yet crazy enough to buy a $660 scale because I can put up with some slight problems and still reload pistol ammo just fine. But that A&D FX 120i sure does look fancy.

Got to looking closer at the specs on the $327 AY-303 and $240 AY-123 and one thing was worrisome paying that much for something that still has drift and hysteresis-- They both specify readability to 0.001 gram, but linearity at +/- 0.004 grams. Maybe in a restricted range needed for reloading the linearity would be better, but didn't sound "worth the money". A bang-on milligram scale ought to be pretty accurate to +/- 0.02 grain, but a +/- 0.004 gram linearity would only be +/- 0.062 grains. That's better than +/- 0.1 grains, but not so much better to spend a bunch of money on.

So researched more on a little $150 My Weigh gem scale that some reloaders brag on. 50 grams X 0.001 gram, with advertised linearity of +/- 0.001. Similar problems of drift and hysteresis, but apparently not awful, and much better linearity than the more expensive "cheap" Sartorius. It "kinda makes sense" that a 50 gram max scale might have better linearity, because the full-range of the strain gage and counting electronics is not "pushing the limit" as hard as a 120 or 300 gram max scale. The My Weigh only needs to attempt linearity over 50,000 counts, though the Sartorius models have to attempt linearity over 120,000 or 300,000 counts. Makes one wonder why the 120 gram Sartorius wouldn't have slightly better linearity than the 300 gram model, though even if it does the company advertises the same linearity for both.

Also makes me curious about another standard asian model sold by various brand names-- There is a "very inexpensive" 20 X 0.001 gram "gem scale" or "caret scale" that looks about the same with many different brand names. I was afraid to buy one fearing it would be unreliable junk, and maybe a lot of such are exactly that. But if a restricted count range makes it easier/cheaper to get good results, the 20 gram scale would only need linearity over 20,000 counts. So just possibly there are a few of the cheap little caret scales manufactured with decent quality control and linearity? That is the same weight range as my old Lyman scale, which always worked for pistol loading though maybe it wouldn't measure big enough for some rifle powder, bullet, or case weights. If somebody makes a real good example of that 20 X 0.001 caret scale it might be a bargain and 5X more accurate than the typical reloading company powder scale.

With either cheap or spensive scales, it seems essential to have a few check weights to make sure the scale ain't lying to you. Or make sure a scale doesn't happen to be accurate in one weight range but wildly inaccurate in another weight range.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

(continued)

Overall the My Weigh GemPro 250 is not near as "nice" a scale as something more expensive, but so far seems pretty nice for the money and has a 30 year warranty which the company seems to honor so far. Played with it a long time yesterday and it is pretty nice compared to the old Lyman. It has drift and hysteresis and slight nonlinearity, but not near as bad as the old Lyman. When the GemPro drifts it might get a few milligrams off, but the Lyman drifts quicker, and every digit of drift on the lyman is 0.01 grams. Or in terms of grains, the Lyman drifts pretty quick and the minimum drift is 0.1 grain, quite a lot on some pistol loads. The GemPro250 takes longer to drift, and it has to drift 5 least-significant-digits before it has drifted by 0.1 grain.

The brand-new strain gage seemed to need some "exercise" before it got stable. For about the first hour of putting test weights on and off the pan, it kept drifting "up" a few milligrams at a time and I kept hitting the zero-reset. It was measuring great, but kept drifting, always in a positive direction. I think it was working the new strain gage into being accustomed to flexing or whatever, because after about an hour it quit the positive-only drift. It seemed more a mechanical thang than just electronic warm-up drift. After it quit drifting, I recalibrated the range and scale, and it stayed bang-on the rest of the evening.

It comes with a 20 gram F1 calibration weight, which is supposed to be accurate to less than a milligram at that weight. For a milligram scale, either F1, or Class 1 or Class 2 checkweights would be most ideal. All accurate to less than a milligram except in the heavier weights. But those seem to sell in the ballpark of $60 or more per weight, and hundreds or thousands for a set. Might break down and get a couple of other sizes of Class 1 weight sometime just for curiousity sake.

In addition to the 20 gram F1 weight, had two stainless M1 20 gram weights and one brass 20 gram weight that came with the lyman scale. Surprisingly one of the stainless 20 gram M1 weights is within a milligram of the F1 weight. The two usually measure exactly the same and rarely disagree more than 1 mg. Pretty good for one weight in a $25 set including many weights. The other stainless M1 weight was a few mg off and the Lyman brass weight was about 8 mg off but it is so old maybe that is corrosion weight drift.

After calibrating scale on the F1 weight, each of the two matching 20 g weights both weighed 20.000, and both together would weigh within a milligram of 40 grams. Often dead-on 40.000. So linearity in that part of the range was looking pretty good. As far as I could tell, my M1 10 gram weight must be within +/- 1 mg. Measured alone would give 10.000 or 9.999, and if measured with the 20 gram weight would give 30.000 or 30.001. I have 3 stainless M1 50 gram weights which disagreed with each other by a few mg and didn't have much way of knowing which is closest. This scale calibrates linearity with a 20 gram and 50 gram weight and was wishing I'd ordered an F or Class 1 50 gram test weight. The class 2 or F are only a few bucks less than class 1, so if I get one maybe penny wise pound foolish not to get a class 1.

Anyway, since had 2 "fairly high confidence" 20 gram weights and a 10 gram weight that couldn't be off more than a couple of mg, did a span calibration with the F1 20 gram weight and then "both 20's and a 10" for the 50 gram size. After doing that, the 10 gram weight was behaving pretty nice by itself or in combination with a 20. So got to examining the M1 stainless 5 gram weight. I think it is off a couple of mg. I get "real close" to 5 grams individually, or "real close" to 15 in combination with the 10, or "real close" to 25, 35, or 45 in other combinations with the two 20's and the 10.

The cheap set of M1 weights, the worst out of cal seem to be the two 2 gram weights and the single 1 gram weight in the set. Those all seem several mg off. One of the 2 gram weights looks about 20 mg off, which is way out of spec for a M1 weight. However, the accuracy of the tiny little metal chips in the set for 10 mg, 20 mg, 50 mg, 100 mg, 200 mg and 500 mg, is rather amazing for a cheap set. As best I can tell they are all within a milligram. Ferinstance a 5.5 gn load of powder would be about 0.356 grams. So if I plunk the 10 mg weight on the scale it measures pretty reliably 10 mg. If I put the 10 gram weight on the scale then plunk on the 10 mg weight, it measures pretty reliably 10.010 grams, all the way up.

Supposedly not much a problem with force-restoration scales, but you have to "trick" the scale to give a good reading if you change the weight by an increment less than about 50 or 100 mg. If I drop on the 200 mg or 500 mg weights either solo or on-top of another check weight, it is pretty reliable that the weight reading will increment by 200 or 500 mg. But plunk on the 10 mg weight and typically the reading will measure a quick sequence something like 0.004, 0.007, 0.009, hunting for the correct measurement. But with the small weight changes, taking the light plastic weight forceps and gently resting it on the platter than picking it up, to force the scale to recalculate and probably "disturbing the hysteresis", it will pretty reliably measure the 0.010.

Maybe sometime pick up a couple more class 1 cal weights for sanity check and armed with that, endeavor to try calibrating all of my (less than 50 gram) M1 cal weights to within 1 mg. Real expensive cal weights are apparently built friendly to re-tweaking the weight, but couldn't google any online fool or wise man explaining the re-calibration of cheap M1 weights. Maybe there is something wrong with the idea, but it seems feasible to use a drill or file to remove a few mg from a weight that is too heavy, or lay on a dab of waterproof paint to add a few mg to a weight. Though most of the weights that are "off" seem to err on the heavy side by a few mg. Am pretty sure that a dab of model plane dope or fingernail polish would be pretty weight stable, because in the old days I'd tune "too sharp" reeds in Wurlitzer electric pianos by adding one or more dabs of paint to the lead weight, then after drying remove thin slivers of the paint to get exactly in-tune. Once tuned that way, they seemed to hold tune pretty good regardless of temp or humidity, and yer talkin about real tiny weight increments and the ear can be very sensitive to pitch drift. So maybe it would work "close enough for rock'n'roll" on a checkweight for hobby purposes.

So anyway sorry for such a long dull message, but this little scale seems pretty good for the money so far.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Here are some links--

Sartorius AY-123 and AY-303--

http://balance.balan...com/scales/1955

http://balance.balan...com/scales/1956

My Weigh GemPro250 http://balance.balances.com/scales/9

A&D FX-120i http://balance.balan...com/scales/1223

The links have real good explanatory text and youtube videos. If you search GemPro 250 on youtube you can find a couple of reloaders reviewing it. One guy knows what he is doing. The other fellow may know what he is doing reloading and shooting, but talks a lot just to explain a little, though if you suffer thru enough there are a few interesting nuggets of him comparing the GemPro side by side to an RCBS scale.

If MikeGideon hasn't seen some of the force-restoration balance reloading videos, it is almost cruel to get him to watch, because it might engender fatal gear acquisition syndrome. But perhaps Mike is a more mature person than I, and can view such videos immune to equipment lust.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[gjohnsoniv]

Very informative Lester.