Memphis Papa Johns Pizza Delivery Driver Shoots Would Be Robber

[DaveTN]

Even if they wanted to make liability insurance a requirement. It's not all that expensive.

Who offers a policy that will pay if it’s a bad shoot?

Most insurance talk I have seen is for legal fees and it doesn’t pay if you are found guilty. (NRA)

Just because you have insurance why would the attorneys not name the company also in a lawsuit?

To get businesses to back off the no-carry signs and policies, we need legislation that says they can’t be sued for our actions. And not that lame stuff we have that says we can get a judgment for costs if found not guilty.

Do I think it will happen? Of course not. A lawyer isn’t going to take a case when there is no hope of a payday; and lawyers make the laws.

But we can try. I think there is a better chance of that happening than getting legislation that will force your employer to allow you to carry in a state where carrying a loaded firearm is a crime.

[Guest pfries]

Liabiltiy insurance – an open ended two party promise, from the insurance company, to defend you, if you get sued because of bodily injury or property damage you cause to anyone .

Right or wrong just like auto insurance, liability = liable " you are liable for your actions".

What I was getting at if you make it so they cannot sue the company and the company wanted you to be insured....

[DaveTN]

Liabiltiy insurance – an open ended two party promise, from the insurance company, to defend you, if you get sued because of bodily injury or property damage you cause to anyone .

Who offers a policy that will pay if it’s a bad shoot?

Right or wrong just like auto insurance, liability = liable " you are liable for your actions".

Unlike car accident insurance, companies have refused to pay saying it’s an intentional act.

What I was getting at if you make it so they cannot sue the company and the company wanted you to be insured....

I’m not a lawyer, but I would guess as soon as companies start making policy or stipulations; they are no longer an innocent party. Whose responsibility would it be to make sure your insurance was paid up?

[Guest pfries]

If the need arises insurance companies would be glad to rape us.

And whose responsibility is it to make sure that your auto insurance is paid up?

[Fallguy]

I'm a little confused....are you saying you'd be ok if Pizza Hut wanted me to have liabilty insurance before I went in there to have a pizza?

But even if I did....as Dave said, that wouldn't stop them from getting sued (or at least orginally named in the suit) for something I did while in there having a pizza.

When a permit system first passed in TN you used to have to be bonded. I'm glad they got away from that.

I'm all for you being held liable for your actions...that is they way it should be. I just don't think a business ought to be liable for my actions just because they allowed me to go in their armed.

[Guest pfries]

I'm a little confused....are you saying you'd be ok if Pizza Hut wanted me to have liabilty insurance before I went in there to have a pizza?

No, if the wanted you as an employee to have it if you wished to carry at work as an extra assurance.

I'm all for you being held liable for your actions...that is they way it should be. I just don't think a business ought to be liable for my actions just because they allowed me to go in their armed.

Absolutely agree, I think where the problem lies is while you are on the clock or conducting business you are a representative of the company, thus the liability insurance.

[DaveTN]

No, if the wanted you as an employee to have it if you wished to carry at work as an extra assurance.

Absolutely agree, I think where the problem lies is while you are on the clock or conducting business you are a representative of the company, thus the liability insurance.

Where do I buy a million dollars’ worth of insurance that will pay a victim’s family if I shoot an innocent bystander or have a negligent discharge that cripples a co-worker? And if you know of somewhere, what will it cost?

And if I had that it would be a given for the victims attorney, why would he stop there? Why not name my employer for not having a safe work environment and get whatever he can get from him also?

What you are suggesting is what was tried in Illinois by requiring gun owners to carry a million dollar insurance policy. It failed there, and I don’t think we want it here. Holding the responsible party liable is the answer. The problem is in most cases they don’t have enough money to matter.

Edited November 20, 2011 by DaveTN

[Guest pfries]

First as I have stated I believe we should be able to carry it work. Where I find the oppositions legal standing is on the fact we are on the clock or performing duties for the company. We are considered a representative of the company.. With this in mind I would be willing to concede to them requiring us to carry liability insurance as a company policy not as a piece of legislation.

Here is what one quick Google search brought up:

What Kind of Insurance Coverage Should I Have for a Concealed Carry Permit or CCW? | Crosby and Crosby Insurance

again, I'm not suggesting the liability insurance be part of legislation, but I could understand it being a company policy.

[Fallguy]

No, if the wanted you as an employee to have it if you wished to carry at work as an extra assurance.

Absolutely agree, I think where the problem lies is while you are on the clock or conducting business you are a representative of the company, thus the liability insurance.

Ok...but I thought we were also talking about business posting. If a place of employment doesn't want you to carry...all they have to do is tell you not to.

But I also think some places post because even if a patron shoots someone in there, they fear they maybe sued...since they are the "deep pockets"

Opening statement by the attorney..."This would not have happened if Company X would have simply posted a sign preventing carry." Yes we all know that a sign doesn't stop criminals and possibly even some HCP holders...but the line could/would sound good if little johnny is in a wheelchair because of your stray shot.

[Guest WyattEarp]

if a business that you work for tells you, you can't carry, and you're out conducting company business, are they then liable in the event you are shot and/or killed?

seems to be along the same lines as my former apt complex prohibiting firearms on the premises, but including in the lease they aren't liable for my safety.

[DaveTN]

if a business that you work for tells you, you can't carry, and you're out conducting company business, are they then liable in the event you are shot and/or killed?

No. And that will never happen as long as it’s a crime to carry a gun in this state.

They aren’t depriving you of a right unless it’s a right for all citizens.

[Guest PapaB]

So. does anyone know whether or not the driver was actually fired after he did the right thing?

[MphsTiger1981]

I was picking up a pie over at another location last week and asked this same question. The only answer was "he worked at our Winchester store." I'd love to know if they fired him or not. I understand from the backstory that another driver for PJ was killed in a similar robbery just over a year ago, just never made much news, as hard as that is to believe.

[hornett22]

Glad I'm self employed. All forms of carry are allowed in my workplace,wherever that may be.

[tnhawk]

I was picking up a pie over at another location last week and asked this same question. The only answer was "he worked at our Winchester store." I'd love to know if they fired him or not. I understand from the backstory that another driver for PJ was killed in a similar robbery just over a year ago, just never made much news, as hard as that is to believe.

A victim getting killed in a robbery isn't news in Memphis.

[Guest msparks]

Glad I'm self employed. All forms of carry are allowed in my workplace,wherever that may be.

+1 Me too

[tnhawk]

So. does anyone know whether or not the driver was actually fired after he did the right thing?

Heard from a pizza delivery driver that the driver had been fired.

[MphsTiger1981]

Heard from a pizza delivery driver that the driver had been fired.

that sucks, but hardly shocking.