The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

[Guest flesheatingvirus]

I love good cops. Hate bad cops. So far, the majority of my few LE encounters have been very professional, and I hope they stay that way. I will still not trust the police, not because they are the police, but because they are strangers, and I don't know them. I don't want a stranger digging through my things, especially one with enough power to really screw me over for a long time, so I will not give consent to a search. Hating all cops because they are cops is very ignorant, and will probably have you ending up "Getting your ass kicked by the cops" as Chris Rock said.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Rabbi,

If you don't want to accept that words have meanings, that is your business. Of course, that is the same mindset that considers "Right of the people" to be collective. After all, if you don't like the definitions, ignore it and decide what the words really mean, right?

[cadillacdude1975]

it might have a few racial overtones, but that is how Chris Rock is. this video is hilarious. i apologize for anyone who might me taken aback with foul language.

[Cannon Fodder]

it might have a few racial overtones, but that is how Chris Rock is. this video is hilarious. i apologize for anyone who might me taken aback with foul language.

That's why I posted it a few days ago, I still think it has some bearing on the thread.

[Marswolf]

Merriam-Webster sucks eggs.

The Romans made the distinction that you are military, clergy, or civilian. The dictionary writers must have taken logic lessons from our AG.

[molonlabetn]

I can see where the confusion could occur, however, since in those times those who performed the function of police were indeed an extension of the military... In the US, the police are not an extension of the military, so the distinction between civilian and law enforcement isn't real. It is a profession, not a social status.

[The Rabbi]

Merriam-Webster sucks eggs.

The Romans made the distinction that you are military, clergy, or civilian. The dictionary writers must have taken logic lessons from our AG.

Yup.

If it doesn't come out of the Oxford English Dictionary (and I have a copy handy at my dining room table), I dont trust it.

Merriam-Webster is merely discriptive, taking common usage and making that authoritative. Same dictionary gives "clip" the same meaning as magazine.

[Fallguy]

Paramilitary?

[Marswolf]

I guess the OED is about as authoritative as it gets

It doesn't even make the distinction of clergy.

According to the OED, a civilian is "A non-military man or official."

[The Rabbi]

I guess the OED is about as authoritative as it gets

It doesn't even make the distinction of clergy.

According to the OED, a civilian is "A non-military man or official."

Works for me.

The OED was written by philologists and scholars. Merriam-Webster was written by peasants.

[Marswolf]

Also the American Heritage dictionary says:

n. 1. A person following the pursuits of civil life. 2. A specialist in Roman or civil law.

adj. 1. Of or relating to civilians or civil life; nonmilitary: civilian clothes; a civilian career.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Merriam-Webster sucks eggs.

The Romans made the distinction that you are military, clergy, or civilian. The dictionary writers must have taken logic lessons from our AG.

The part I underlined was what I had believed for years, course I was also raised to use MWD if I needed the meaning of a word. Hence the reason I go and use it. All that said, I would prefer to call cops civilians, but that just isn't the meaning from my dictionary.

Since we have three different dictionaries, perhaps we should have a dictionary fight? What caliber for verbose dictionaries? My dictionary is better than your dictionary!

[saintsfanbrian]

I have always heard Civilian is non-military. Period. I am ex-military but currently and just a civilian. Don't like being called a civilian? Join the military.

Oh, I really love when they show on COPS the police officers talking about ordinary citizens. Guess what you're one too......

[Marswolf]

The part I underlined was what I had believed for years, course I was also raised to use MWD if I needed the meaning of a word. Hence the reason I go and use it. All that said, I would prefer to call cops civilians, but that just isn't the meaning from my dictionary.

Since we have three different dictionaries, perhaps we should have a dictionary fight? What caliber for verbose dictionaries? My dictionary is better than your dictionary!

That's what I was kinda thinking. But anyone knows that Webster's is superior.

DICTIONARY WARS!!!!!

But at 16,000 pages, the OED really is the heavyweight.

Actually I'm kinda' a Dictionary nut. I have a number of them. my 1840 Webster's Unabridged talks a lot about one being skilled in Roman law but does mention "One whose pursuits are those of civil life, not military or clerical."

My 1867 Webster's Primary School Dictionary of the English Language says, "One versed in civil law; one in a civil capacity." And "Civil" is "Pertaining to a city or state, or to society; courteous; polite."

I'm staking out a claim to the 1840 Webster's and OED. My earliest and my most authoritative dictionaries.

I guess language is a living thing - the way the Constitution is a living document and subject to change at the whim of legislators or the judiciary... or yankee (small "y") dictionary writers.

[Marswolf]

Don't like being called a civilian? Join the military.

I have told that to a number of LEOs.

[deerslayer]

You also assume that when officers see other officers doing wrong then don't turn them in. Every day there are whistleblowers in my profession in the same way there undoubtedly are in your profession. I can assure you that nothing illegal takes place in front of my face that doesn't get addressed.

So, how many of your fellow officers have you given speeding tickets?

[Guest SomeGuy]

Mars, I will say one very interesting thing about Websters dictionary.

Couple years ago, when I looked it up, it listed police officers as civilians. For a while, I even used that link to the definition of civilian to irritate people who said cops were not civilians. I noticed about a year or two ago it changed, and cops are no longer civilians.

It has always bugged me, as I personally consider cops civilians entrusted with power for certain purposes, think surgeon, just a lot dumber. Looking back at it, and thinking about the book 1984, I wonder if the word changed for a certain reason...

Oh, and the addition of firefighters to the category of "not civilian" is VERY new. The way they change the definition of words is BS.

Edited March 27, 2008 by SomeGuy

[Marswolf]

So, how many of your fellow officers have you given speeding tickets?

[saintsfanbrian]

Let's not go in to professional courtesy here with not giving a fellow police officer, or a family member of a police officer, or a friend of a police officer or a friend of a friend of a family member of a police officer a pass on speeding tickets.

We all give professional courtesies in our businesses. Plumbers will help out an electrician buddy so they can get their media room wired correctly. Electricians will help out plumbers so they can get their toilet unplugged. Computer geeks help out everyone so they will have friends.

Then again, none of the other professions are entrusted with maintaining law and order.....

[The Rabbi]

Let's not go in to professional courtesy here with not giving a fellow police officer, or a family member of a police officer, or a friend of a police officer or a friend of a friend of a family member of a police officer a pass on speeding tickets.

We all give professional courtesies in our businesses. Plumbers will help out an electrician buddy so they can get their media room wired correctly. Electricians will help out plumbers so they can get their toilet unplugged. Computer geeks help out everyone so they will have friends.

Then again, none of the other professions are entrusted with maintaining law and order.....

Yes. The last part. It is not "professional courtesy" to allow someone to break the law. Thus it is fundamentally different from lawyers, doctors, gun shop owners etc.

[strickj]

Computer geeks help out everyone so they will have friends.

:rofl:

[Cannon Fodder]

Computer geeks help out everyone so they will have friends.

That's just mean right there.

[saintsfanbrian]

Just so everyone knows. I am a computer geek. SQL geek to be precise so that is even worse than just your average computer geek.

And Rabbi, that was the exact point I was trying to make. To show the disparities because people always come back with the fact that all professions give courtesies to others in similar professions.

[strickj]

Well you still have no friends yet,me thinks you need to help more people.I will let you start with me by giving me cash to buy new gun

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

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