The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

[Guest SomeGuy]

My very simple guide to dealing with cops is never under any circumstances trust police.

[Guest HogMan]

Whats to say while searching your vehicle or home something is planted, but surely that has never happened before.

[Guest darkstar]

Yeah, you never know...I think the vast majority of cops are pretty decent and do a very difficult job but you get one that sucks and it sours you on the profession as a whole. For what it's worth I have a buddy I went to college with that works homicide back up home (Boston, where I grew up) and he has told me some pretty crazy stories about stuff they have done. I always ask him aren't they worried about getting caught, loosing cases, etc and he pretty much tells me no one really cares as long as the real scumbags get put away. I'm guessing most of what he tells me is probably a bunch of crap but you never know, Boston has been awash in all sorts of sketchy stuff for years and years. You want to see a really corrupt cop watch the movie Bad Lieutenant...Harvey Keitel is this wayyyyyyy messed up cop doing all sorts of craziness, great movie....get the unrated version for the full effect.

[DaveTN]

If the defendant requests it, it goes to trial regardless of financial ability. Some have nothing to lose. Force trial cost on them? BFD. They have nothing to lose.

I guess it depends on who we are talking about. If it’s a dirt bag criminal that has nothing and gets a public defender then no, they have nothing at risk but a longer jail sentence.

If it’s a citizen with a good job and a home that has to pay their own legal defense expense they have a lot to lose. Unless the Judge throws out whatever was seized in the search the outcome will probably not be good.

I’m only offering a different viewpoint from those in the video. For an attorney to suggest that three people should exit a vehicle and lock the doors on a traffic stop because there is a bag of pot in the vehicle is ignorance beyond belief. I feel sorry for the kids that see that and believe that is a good idea…. It will not end well.

Refusing a request to search is one thing, trying to physically stop access or trying to destroy evidence can escalate a minor offense to something much more.

There are no black and white answers. People need to be informed.

[The Rabbi]

I didnt see a suggestion to destroy evidence. That would be bad advice. But closing the window and locking the door seems OK to me. Less chance of Officer Friendly "catching a whiff" of something and using that as probable cause.

[Fallguy]

I’m only offering a different viewpoint from those in the video. For an attorney to suggest that three people should exit a vehicle and lock the doors on a traffic stop because there is a bag of pot in the vehicle is ignorance beyond belief.

....and letting the officer search, when you know you have an illegal substance/object/etc... when he does not yet have probable cause, or allowing him to more easily get probable cause by opening up the vehicle is good advice?

[DaveTN]

....and letting the officer search, when you know you have an illegal substance/object/etc... when he does not yet have probable cause, or allowing him to more easily get probable cause by opening up the vehicle is good advice?

I’m not suggesting that you open the car or allow a search. As I have said… that is a decision that you will have to make based upon the circumstances because you will have to live with the results. Information…. You need to be armed with it.

I’m just saying that if three people would exit a vehicle and locked the doors on a traffic stop the LEO would simply call for a dog and the rest would be history. Three in custody, car impounded, and let the lawyers start the tab running.

I always asked for permission to search even when I already had probable cause. I did it just to engage the person is conversation while I was making a decision how things were going to go. I had discretion on a bag of pot.

You have no idea whether the cop has probable cause or not. Probable cause does not need to be discussed or argued on the street, a Judge will determine that at a later date.

You do not need to make an overt dumb azz action like locking your car. If you refuse a request to search and the cop decides to search anyway it will not matter if the doors are locked.

Trying to physically stop a cop from conducting what you believe to be an improper search, or making an attempt to destroy evidence can turn a minor misdemeanor into a felony in some states.

The forth amendment contains the word “unreasonableâ€. What is unreasonable to you, a cop and a Judge may be three very different things.

[Fallguy]

Dave, over all I think you and I agree more than we don't.....just not going to 100% come together.

I’m not suggesting that you open the car or allow a search. As I have said… that is a decision that you will have to make based upon the circumstances because you will have to live with the results. Information…. You need to be armed with it.

Well Said....

I’m just saying that if three people would exit a vehicle and locked the doors on a traffic stop the LEO would simply call for a dog and the rest would be history. Three in custody, car impounded, and let the lawyers start the tab running.

I agree that locking the doors probably wouldn't' be the wisest thing to do, but don't leave them open, you an shut your door. Of course as others have said, maybe the dog isn't available right then, or like the county I live in, there isn't a drug dog. Or...since I don't do drugs...maybe I have the shotgun with a questionable barrel length I was taking to someone to tell me if it was legal or not. Now depending on my appearance etc.... your might be reasonable and not charge me if the shotgun was illegal, but the next officer might, so not sure if I want to take the chance or not.

You have no idea whether the cop has probable cause or not. Probable cause does not need to be discussed or argued on the street, a Judge will determine that at a later date.

I agree, the person being stopped really doesn't know if the officer has PC and I guess the officer may not have to tell the person if he has PC or what it is if he does.

You do not need to make an overt dumb azz action like locking your car. If you refuse a request to search and the cop decides to search anyway it will not matter if the doors are locked.

I assume you mean if he decides to search anyway when he can legally do so, otherwise if he is going to conduct an illegal search, I think the locked doors could very well help the defendant in court. But if he does have PC I agree he can work right past a locked door with no problem.

Trying to physically stop a cop from conducting what you believe to be an improper search, or making an attempt to destroy evidence can turn a minor misdemeanor into a felony in some states.

I agree as did the lawyer in the video (and even Chris Rock...lol)....never physically resist.

The forth amendment contains the word “unreasonableâ€. What is unreasonable to you, a cop and a Judge may be three very different things.

Again true...and the opinion of the judge is the only one that is going to matter. Another good reason to know some case law as others have said.

Also something some folks may want to consider is tape or voice recorder if you are going to be more assertive with your rights, that way it's not he said/he said thing.

[Guest panthaka]

My very simple guide to dealing with cops is never under any circumstances trust police.

I just joined this site a couple of weeks ago and as a police officer in Memphis I hope this is not indicative of the board as a whole. Police are generally not interested in issues relating to removing someone's right to keep and bear arms. The vast majority of police that I know including myself believe that the more good people with guns the better.

steven

[Fallguy]

I just joined this site a couple of weeks ago and as a police officer in Memphis I hope this is not indicative of the board as a whole. Police are generally not interested in issues relating to removing someone's right to keep and bear arms. The vast majority of police that I know including myself believe that the more good people with guns the better.

steven

I don't think it is.....

Every now and then it seems a thread will get off into police tactics/encounters etc... and people tend to relate more negative encounters they've had than positive ones. Although as a whole I'm sure there have been many more positive/neutral encounters out there. I was just thinking...the encounter I had with one state trooper, even though he gave me a ticket (and he should have I guess..I was speeding) he was VERY professional, hell I wanted to offer to take him to lunch afterwards, but I don't ever talk about that encounter with people.

Talk with jaypee (retired CHP), depending on the first couple of threads you come across, first impressions can be wrong.

[Guest panthaka]

I look forward to getting different impressions throughout my tenure here that one just kind of irked me.

steven

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

all my encounters with LEOs where good but one. but he was a newbie just wanted to throw around his power a little bite. but other then that the rest i had encounters with where all good guys. the way i look at it is they have a job to do just like the rest of us do

[Guest SomeGuy]

I look forward to getting different impressions throughout my tenure here that one just kind of irked me.

steven

Too bad. You have only yourself and other officers to blame for the fact that bad policemen have made me unwilling to trust any of you. Now, if you and other cops go out, and clean up your departments, and have policemen who can be trusted, then things will change. Until then, you are just another government worker with a shiny badge who goes to work every day looking for ways to violate my rights, and make this country a bad place.

[The Rabbi]

Too bad. You have only yourself and other officers to blame for the fact that bad policemen have made me unwilling to trust any of you. Now, if you and other cops go out, and clean up your departments, and have policemen who can be trusted, then things will change. Until then, you are just another government worker with a shiny badge who goes to work every day looking for ways to violate my rights, and make this country a bad place.

I think that's a little harsh.

OTOH when I deal with police I always think "these guys are not my friends." And they aren't. They are doing a job. And some of them have the idea that the only difference between an honest citizen and a criminal is that the honest citizen hasn't been caught yet.

[Guest panthaka]

I guess you judge all majorities by the actions of the minorities. If I were to use your logic then all responsible gun owners should give up our guns because we are responsible for the criminals actions. Or another analogy would be let's call all of the troops in Iraq criminals for the actions of a few people in Abu Ghraib. I am sure in your occupation that every one is a wonderful upstanding citizen. We are held to a different standard but be careful how you paint that wide brush. And in reference to cleaning up a department, since I am not in a position of authority within my department all I can do is ensure that I follow the same rules that I enforce. With all due respect what life experiences do you have at your tender age of early 20's to be able to say you don't trust any police officers. Maybe you should strap on that shiny badge and be in my shoes for a few days and you would understand a little more.

steven

[Im Neero]

Too bad. You have only yourself and other officers to blame for the fact that bad policemen have made me unwilling to trust any of you. Now, if you and other cops go out, and clean up your departments, and have policemen who can be trusted, then things will change. Until then, you are just another government worker with a shiny badge who goes to work every day looking for ways to violate my rights, and make this country a bad place.

That's a terrible way of looking at things.

[Guest canynracer]

Too bad. You have only yourself and other officers to blame for the fact that bad policemen have made me unwilling to trust any of you. Now, if you and other cops go out, and clean up your departments, and have policemen who can be trusted, then things will change. Until then, you are just another government worker with a shiny badge who goes to work every day looking for ways to violate my rights, and make this country a bad place.

WOW....that was more than a LITTLE harsh.

I am not sure that all share your point of view. I sure dont. You judge entire departments on a few bad encounters?

You honestly think the LEO look for ways to violate your rights?

[dralarms]

Steven,

Not everyone has a bad view of LE in general. Welcome to the board.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

LITTLE harsh when i was reading it i was waiting to read J/K but never did. but dralarms is right not everyone has a bad view of LEOs <TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 77671" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125></TD><TD class=alt1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Guest SomeGuy]

Rabbi, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You are correct in how you point out they are not our friends, and some simply view citizens as uncaught criminals. Around here, the sentiment is not just an us vs them mentality, it is, you are a cop, or you are an a-hole mentality. Cops hate civilians. Hence why I have a rather jaded view of police.

panthaka, one major difference (among others) between cops and gun owners, or the military: Cops protect their own when they do bad. Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans, how many times have we seen police protect corrupt cops? Gun owners want criminals punished, the military punishes bad apples rather harshly too I might add. Lastly, you state, and I quote:

all I can do is ensure that I follow the same rules that I enforce.

Wrong. When you see other cops doing bad you should call them on it, even if it means turning them in. I have called my coworkers on bad behavior multiple times, and once or twice they have corrected me. It has thankfully never been anything major, but we don't tolerate it in our workplace, why should you tolerate it in yours?

Neero, why?

Yes canyn, I do in fact believe that when cops leave home, and go to work, they actively look forward to infringing on the rights of us, the lowly citizen.

I simply have zero faith they are there to do right.

Edited March 24, 2008 by SomeGuy
Typos.

[Guest Medic908]

The attidtude you display will most likely bring you the confrontation and discord you seem to be seeking. I hope a few more years of age will change your outlook.

[Guest panthaka]

Cops hate civilians. Hence why I have a rather jaded view of police.

Wrong. When you see other cops doing bad you should call them on it, even if it means turning them in.

I do in fact believe that when cops leave home, and go to work, they actively look forward to infringing on the rights of us, the lowly citizen.

I didn't join this board for a philosophical discussion on law enforcement but I think your generalizations show your lack of maturity. You state cops hate citizens. Did you get that piece of information from your many police officers you surveyed or just made it up.

You also assume that when officers see other officers doing wrong then don't turn them in. Every day there are whistleblowers in my profession in the same way there undoubtedly are in your profession. I can assure you that nothing illegal takes place in front of my face that doesn't get addressed.

You state police look forward to infringing on other people's rights. That is funny. I myself look forward to where I am going to eat lunch at and that I get off on time. Oh well this is the last time I am going to address you but with your years of life experiences *cough* I hope you become a little less jaded in the future.

steven

[Im Neero]

Take your logic and apply it to a cop's perspective, and you should understand what is wrong. They see civilians doing terrible things every day, how should they judge all of us based on these incidents?

You have every right to opinion, but I think it is very likely that most police officers start their careers with every intention of making the world a better place, but after years of dealing with people with your perspective, I imagine that starts to change.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Take your logic and apply it to a cop's perspective, and you should understand what is wrong. They see civilians doing terrible things every day, how should they judge all of us based on these incidents?

You have every right to opinion, but I think it is very likely that most police officers start their careers with every intention of making the world a better place, but after years of dealing with people with your perspective, I imagine that starts to change.

I see where you are going, and it is not a bad point. The problem is police are entrusted with a lot of power. With power comes responsibility. When cops abuse their power, it has far greater effects than what you or I could do. They should be held to a higher standard because of this, yet often seem held to a lower, much lower, standard.

[Guest strelcevina]

@Moderators.

can you please delete this thread.

it is moving in wrong direction:(

it wasn't meant to be anti cop

Thanks