Possession on university campus

[JRB]

I don't know what forum this really goes under, but thought this was the closest. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

What is the law on possessing a firearm, not carrying it, on a private university campus? The university handbook basically just states to refer to the law, nothing specifically saying "don't do it". I'm sure the law is there, but I was wondering if someone can point me to it specifically. And would a university dormitory have any other application different than the campus as a whole?

[Oh Shoot]

If you are a student, you can't possess a firearm in car at all, except in the case of dropping off and picking up passengers, in which case the firearm may be in the vehicle in the condition mandated by TN law (okay loaded on person or reachable with a HCP, unloaded with ammo separated with no HCP).

If you are an adult non-student, you may have gun stored in car, but generally interpreted that it must be in unloaded condition.

LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool

39-17-1309 and 39-17-1310

(can't do direct link due to frameset and having to accept license agreement on home page).

- OS

[walton6467]

© 2011 by The State of Tennessee

All rights reserved

*** CURRENT THROUGH THE 2011 REGULAR SESSION ***

Title 39 Criminal Offenses

Chapter 17 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety and Welfare

Part 13 Weapons

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1309 (2011)

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(a) As used in this section, "weapon of like kind" includes razors and razor blades, except those used solely for personal shaving, and any sharp pointed or edged instrument, except unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance.

((1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.

(2) A violation of this subsection ( is a Class E felony.

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

(2) A violation of this subsection © is a Class B misdemeanor.

(d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6'') high and fourteen inches (14'') wide, stating:

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), "prominent locations about a school" includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias.

(e) The provisions of subsections ( and © do not apply to the following persons:

(1) Persons employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard when in discharge of their official duties and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms or weapons;

(2) Civil officers of the United States in the discharge of their official duties;

(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;

(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties;

(5) Any pupils who are members of the reserve officers training corps or pupils enrolled in a course of instruction or members of a club or team, and who are required to carry arms or weapons in the discharge of their official class or team duties;

(6) Any private police employed by the administration or board of trustees of any public or private institution of higher education in the discharge of their duties; and

(7) Any registered security guard/officer who meets the requirements of title 62, chapter 35, and who is discharging the officer's official duties.

HISTORY: Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 8; 1991, ch. 510, §§ 1-3; 1996, ch. 1009, § 24.

[JRB]

That appears to be for carrying though. If I a student has a stowed pistol in their dorm room, ammo somewhere else... I'm looking for the exact law against that.

[Oh Shoot]

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

Well, do 39-17-1310 also for all options.

btw, where did you get that? I'm about over the LexisNexis interface.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

That appears to be for carrying though. If I a student has a stowed pistol in their dorm room, ammo somewhere else... I'm looking for the exact law against that.

what part of

"possess or carry" ... "on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property ..."

is unclear to you?

- OS

Edited November 2, 2011 by OhShoot

[JRB]

Oops. I glanced right over the possess word there and went straight carry, open or concealed part. My bad.

Clarify the intent to go armed part though. If the weapon was locked away, separate from ammunition? Is that over-ridden by ©(1) section that leaves that phrase out?

Edited November 2, 2011 by JRB

[peejman]

That appears to be for carrying though. If I a student has a stowed pistol in their dorm room, ammo somewhere else... I'm looking for the exact law against that.

As OhShoot pointed out. As a student, you can't. Period. If the dorm is on campus, the same law applies. If it's technically off-campus but run by the university (as in, you pay the school), I feel sure the same law applies. Feel free to annoy your legislative representative (and here) if you're not happy about that. If you're talking about UT, the faculty and staff have recently made their position clear.

Oops. I glanced right over the possess word there and went straight carry, open or concealed part. My bad.

Clarify the intent to go armed part though. If the weapon was locked away, separate from ammunition?

Quit reaching for technicalities, you won't win. No guns on campus, period. Though that doesn't stop some people. More discussion here: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/25023-how-intent-go-armed-defined.html

** while googling a bit on this, I found posts in other forums from "he who shall remain nameless" digging at the same technicalities. I involuntarily shivered.

Edited November 2, 2011 by peejman

[Oh Shoot]

Oops. I glanced right over the possess word there and went straight carry, open or concealed part. My bad

If caught with unloaded and no ammo, you might get by with a misdemeanor instead of a felony, though. Maybe.

- OS

[wcsc12]

If caught with unloaded and no ammo, you might get by with a misdemeanor instead of a felony, though. Maybe.

- OS

BBBIIIIGGGG Maybe there....I wouldn't chance it at all. Especially with all of this fuel going on about allowing carrying on campus, they'd be liable to make an example out of you and get you for everything they possibly can.

[Guest 270win]

If you are possessing/carry the firearm with intent to use it as a weapon on campus, then it would appear you could get in trouble for a low level felony. If you just POSSESS it without intent to use your firearm as a weapon, then you have a mid level misdemeanor problem.

Tennessee's gun laws are a total joke when it comes to schools. A college guy with a hunting rifle can at minimum be charged with a mid level misdemeanor. There don't seem to be exceptions for those even going hunting. About the only exception is for taking a class with your gun, like being on the shooting team.

[walton6467]

Lets also remember that in addition to any criminal charge you WILL get kicked out of school.

[Guest NashvegasMatt]

Here's a question for the brain squad. My buddy lives in an apartment on the edge of campus, that is owned by the school, however no school activities or ceremonies ever take place there. It has a separate address from the school as well. What's the law interpreted as in this case? I feel that since it is a different address than the school itself, that they would have a hard time charging you with this.

[Guest bkelm18]

.

[peejman]

Here's a question for the brain squad. My buddy lives in an apartment on the edge of campus, that is owned by the school, however no school activities or ceremonies ever take place there. It has a separate address from the school as well. What's the law interpreted as in this case? I feel that since it is a different address than the school itself, that they would have a hard time charging you with this.

I don't think they'd have a hard time at all. If he pays rent to the school, I'd bet they consider it school property. There are lots of off campus school facilities and the same rules/laws apply there too. It'd be a detail for the lawyers to haggle about.

[JRB]

Thanks for the clarification everyone. It has helped.

Quit reaching for technicalities, you won't win. No guns on campus, period. Though that doesn't stop some people. More discussion here: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/25023-how-intent-go-armed-defined.html

** while googling a bit on this, I found posts in other forums from "he who shall remain nameless" digging at the same technicalities. I involuntarily shivered.

I'm not reaching, I just want to be clear. I haven't been a student for quite a while, but I work with them all day. I'm the "gun guy" in the office and I the question comes up. I can say it's against the law all day long, but when a student comes back and says "Which law is it?" I haven't had an answer.

[walton6467]

Here's a question for the brain squad. My buddy lives in an apartment on the edge of campus, that is owned by the school, however no school activities or ceremonies ever take place there. It has a separate address from the school as well. What's the law interpreted as in this case? I feel that since it is a different address than the school itself, that they would have a hard time charging you with this.

I work at a university and what you are talking about is a real gray area. Is your friend a student renting or a non-student renting from the school? I would recommend asking the Campus Police department their stance.

[JayC]

Here's a question for the brain squad. My buddy lives in an apartment on the edge of campus, that is owned by the school, however no school activities or ceremonies ever take place there. It has a separate address from the school as well. What's the law interpreted as in this case? I feel that since it is a different address than the school itself, that they would have a hard time charging you with this.

Short answer, it's illegal...

It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.

The current state law regarding ownership is a complete mess, call your local legislator and bug them about it.

[peejman]

Thanks for the clarification everyone. It has helped.

I'm not reaching, I just want to be clear. I haven't been a student for quite a while, but I work with them all day. I'm the "gun guy" in the office and I the question comes up. I can say it's against the law all day long, but when a student comes back and says "Which law is it?" I haven't had an answer.

Apologies. I had visions of someone wanting to challenge the establishment based on technicalities in this regard. While a noble cause, likely also a futile one.

[JRB]

The current state law regarding ownership is a complete mess, call your local legislator and bug them about it.

Absolutely. According to that statement you bolded, wouldn't it be illegal then for a school administrator to own a gun at their own home? That is technically a property used by a director for administrative purposes (assuming they work from home, which would be common in that position).

[Fallguy]

Absolutely. According to that statement you bolded, wouldn't it be illegal then for a school administrator to own a gun at their own home? That is technically a property used by a director for administrative purposes (assuming they work from home, which would be common in that position).

If it's his private home, I wouldn't think so... I don't think just making a school related call or two makes it used for school purposes. Although I admit I could see some DA trying to prosecute it if they really wanted to.

If it is a home owned by the university.....then yeah, technically looks like it would be a violation.

[JayC]

Absolutely. According to that statement you bolded, wouldn't it be illegal then for a school administrator to own a gun at their own home? That is technically a property used by a director for administrative purposes (assuming they work from home, which would be common in that position).

Yes it would be illegal for a person who is living in a house/apartment owned or leased by a school to posses a firearm in that house. Or if they were using it for official purposes... I don't think incidental phone calls or grading papers would count, but how poorly this law is worded, it might.

While many others on this forum disagree, the way that subsection of the law is written one could make the argument that a McDonald's being used during a field trip becomes a no carry zone, or a state park if it's being used for a field trip. And according to our "wonderful" AG even if they don't post you're still breaking the law

Again, call your local legislator and bug them about fixing this outdated law.

I'd also like to point out that the possession part of this law is a violation of the state Constitution which limits the legislature to regulating the WEARING of weapons.

Edited November 3, 2011 by JayC

[walton6467]

I think we are all aware that many times laws are written vaguely on purpose, so they can be used as circumstances see fit. I consulted the Chief of Police for a local university with the question about renting a house from a university and keeping a gun there. His response was "it depends". If there wasn't anything specific written in the lease agreement about guns, and the renter wasn't a student, then in all likelyhood, no one would tell him he couldn't keep a gun there.

At risk of highjacking the thread, I'll give you another example. I recently put antique tags on a car I own. I have the luxury of being able to choose to buy my tags from one of two counties. TN code annotated says that antique car tags are $24 plus any county fees. One county I could buy from added EVERY county fee to the $24 state mandated fee, the other county added nothing but sales tax. So one county had $100 antique car tags, the other county had $30 antique car tags and BOTH ARE LEGAL according to TN state law.

So there is a lot of leeway in the interpretation of these laws and one circumstance is not necessarily like another. So my school's chief doesn't care if a non student renter has a gun, another chief or administrator might say absolutely NO GUNS and BOTH WOULD BE LEGAL.

[Guest WyattEarp]

That appears to be for carrying though. If I a student has a stowed pistol in their dorm room, ammo somewhere else... I'm looking for the exact law against that.

all you need do is go to the university's website, find their student conduct policy, it will tell you all you need to know. Unless it's a privately funded University and doesn't receive any assistance from the State, all of the rules pertaining to the possession and use of weapons on a public college campus are valid, and will be backed up by the law.

If you still have further doubts, contact the campus PD and request clarification. no weapons allowed anywhere on any campus in the state of the Tennessee, unless it's a privately funded campus.

carrying is not limited to just carrying on your person. carrying means in your vehicle, locker, backpack, laptop bag, gym bag, colostomy bag, barf bag, and any other form of bag, container, holster, lock box, or storage place, vehicle, to include all on campus parking lots, campus buildings, campus apartments, and so on and so forth.

[Guest bkelm18]

all you need do is go to the university's website, find their student conduct policy, it will tell you all you need to know. Unless it's a privately funded University and doesn't receive any assistance from the State, all of the rules pertaining to the possession and use of weapons on a public college campus are valid, and will be backed up by the law.

If you still have further doubts, contact the campus PD and request clarification. no weapons allowed anywhere on any campus in the state of the Tennessee, unless it's a privately funded campus.

carrying is not limited to just carrying on your person. carrying means in your vehicle, locker, backpack, laptop bag, gym bag, colostomy bag, barf bag, and any other form of bag, container, holster, lock box, or storage place, vehicle, to include all on campus parking lots, campus buildings, campus apartments, and so on and so forth.

The law applies to private institutions as well.