Can detain someone in the act of committing a crime?

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I was in a Q&A session with the assistant DA in Williamson county. He said he has never prosecuted a citizen for using a firearm to stop or prevent a crime. I can't say all DAs have the same viewpoint, but it does seem logical. Now he did tell a story in another county where the good guy did some bad things to the crime scene and he was prosecuted.

Yea I've noticed that most DA's around here dont seem too willing to be seen as being hard on law-abiding citizens who try to protect themselves or their stuff from an obvious bad guy.

[Wingshooter]

A friend of mine tells the story where he heard something out in his driveway (in Memphis). He looked out and saw someone trying to steal the stereo out of his car. He ran outside in boxers with a 1911 and flashlight. Said he held the guy at gunpoint. The cops came and arrested the guy. My friend was not prosecuted for anything.

I would have called 911 and watched out the window with a bowl of popcorn, but that's just me. Stuff ain't worth it...

[Guest jackdm3]

I want whatever popcorn you've found that pops so fast! He'd be gone before you found a bowl.

[Wingshooter]

I want whatever popcorn you've found that pops so fast! He'd be gone before you found a bowl.

Alright, maybe a bag of M&M's

I would intervene depending on the situation, but I would prefer to let the cops catch him red-handed it if they can get there in time. If I jump outside with a gun, the robber might run and never be caught.

[Guest lostpass]

From what I can tell a permit does not make you a officer of the law. If you want to enforce the law instead of defending yourself you need to be an officer.

[NRA]

Better to draw your camera than your gun.

What

[Guest PapaB]

What

I think his point is, getting photo's of the crime and perps makes a good witness and helps LE while keeping yourself out of potential trouble. If you can do video with your cell phone, that's even better.

I agree with the pepper spray idea.

[peejman]

I think his point is, getting photo's of the crime and perps makes a good witness and helps LE while keeping yourself out of potential trouble. If you can do video with your cell phone, that's even better.

I agree with the pepper spray idea.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Except for the pepper spray part. I believe it's only to be used in a (personal) defensive manner. You can be charged with assault for using it without provocation.... case in point: Seattle superhero charged with pepper-spray assault | Reuters

[Fallguy]

From what I can tell a permit does not make you a officer of the law. If you want to enforce the law instead of defending yourself you need to be an officer.

On my property I don't see it so much as enforcing the law as protecting my property (which the law allows).

Also there are many property owners that don't have or need HCPs to have firearms on their property.

[Mike.357]

I dunno. But if i catch someone tampering with my property i will do what i have to do to stop it.

[TMF]

I dunno. But if i catch someone tampering with my property i will do what i have to do to stop it.

Yeah, I'd say it's safe to assume that someone who has trespassed on your property with the purpose of committing a crime is presenting a threat. As a property owner I'm not going to stand by and allow myself to be victimized. My gun is coming out because I am under the assumption that anyone who would commit such an act is probably armed in some way.

[Mike.357]

Now i ain't saying i am pulling a gun right off, but it i can get a full swing at kidneys with my hickory

wood Jackie robinson louisville slugger i am taking that shot with no warning. They won't be worth much after that hit. A homer at the knee would be effective too.

[Guest sqlightning]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

[sschrick]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

in this case, I would hope so. You are entering your castle, you have the right to protect it and defend yourself.

[Wingshooter]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

I would feel threatened in this situation, and I would defend myself.

[TMF]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

If not I still have no issues explaining my actions to a jury. My house is my castle 24/7 whether I'm sleeping in it or walking through the front door.

[Fallguy]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

Depends on what you mean about "the castle doctrine"... It is just a term used to generally talk about self-defense and defense of property laws and not an actually a law itself. So you always have to just look at the law for the situation you're talking about. Which can vary from state to state even if each state has "a castle doctrine"

In TN (as in most, if not all states) you have to be in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm to use deadly force...period. This is regardless off where you are, inside your home, outside your home, on the sidewalk, at Walmart, at your friend's house etc.....

Where the difference comes in is that in certain areas/situations the law "presumes" you to be in fear of death or serious bodily harm. Or in other words the prosecutor would have to prove that it wasn't reasonable for you to have that fear, not you have to prove that it was.

One of those places where it is presumed you have that fear is if someone has forcibly and unlawfully entered your occupied home. It doesn't say which order that has to happen in and who else has to occupy by it besides the intruder (you, family member, friend etc..).

So in the situation you desribed...if they unlawfully and forcibly entered your house and you stepped in (occupying it) then the law would presume you were in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

Of course if was daytime and the person was clearly visible and that person in your living room was an elderly lady (saw a news story about that not too long ago) or a young teenager and both with no weapons....the DA might decide it wasn't reasonable for you to have that fear and charge you and try to convince a jury.

If it was a night, the intruder had "something" in his hand that looked like a weapon etc.... then I think most would think the fear to be reasonable.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Fallguy

[Guest WyattEarp]

what about coming home to a burglary in progress (i.e. walking in the back door and finding someone in your living room)? does the castle doctrine still come into play here?

shoot em dead. its your house, not theirs. someone is in YOUR house that isnt supposed to be there, and that's enough to place anyone in fear for their life, because you have no clue what that person's intent is, if they're on drugs, if they're armed or not, and you have a family to think about and protect.

your house is your castle, you have no duty to retreat.

[E4 No More]

There is no "brandishing" law in TN. Basically if you do something to make another person reasonably fear for their life that is assault, if you do it using a weapon, that is aggravated assault.

So if you pull up your shirt and show someone your concealed handgun....if they reasonably feared for their life, you'd be in trouble.

AFAIK AZ is the only state that has a specific law that allows for the showing of a weapon in an attempt to diffuse a situation.

Interesting: My HCP Instructor taught us that showing the gun is not threatening, and in fact scared off 3 men who were approaching him from different angles in the parking lot of Opry Mills. He thought they were positioning theirselves to rob him while cutting off avenues of escape. My instructor was a LEO for the boro, and said that if you do this to immediately call the police and report it - first one heard from is the victim afterall.

[TMF]

Interesting: My HCP Instructor taught us that showing the gun is not threatening, and in fact scared off 3 men who were approaching him from different angles in the parking lot of Opry Mills. He thought they were positioning theirselves to rob him while cutting off avenues of escape. My instructor was a LEO for the boro, and said that if you do this to immediately call the police and report it - first one heard from is the victim afterall.

Well I think that is something that is situational. For example, you can OC in TN, right. So if you enter an environment where you feel you need to OC as a deterrent that isn't a threatening gesture. The example you gave above seemed to fit that scenario. He felt as if his environment suited having an exposed weapon and therefore he exposed it. I think where you could be seen as threatening someone is if, for example, you are in an argument with someone and suddenly expose your firearm. This could be interpreted as threatening them with your weapon.

[Guest ag45sw990L]

It is best to let the Police do thier job. I would not recommend trying to arrest someone even if they are on your property and you can stay out of harms way or you do not feel you are in harms way. Call Law Enforcement and let them take care of it. If you confront them and the situation gets out of hand and you have to use deadly force then a lawyer can say you could have avoided it by staying out of it. If he is trying to get in your house or is charging you meaning bodily harm and you fear for your life well that falls under the category of natural selection and you have the right to defend yourself!!!!! Aim for the center!!

[Fallguy]

It is best to let the Police do thier job. I would not recommend trying to arrest someone even if they are on your property and you can stay out of harms way or you do not feel you are in harms way. Call Law Enforcement and let them take care of it. If you confront them and the situation gets out of hand and you have to use deadly force then a lawyer can say you could have avoided it by staying out of it. If he is trying to get in your house or is charging you meaning bodily harm and you fear for your life well that falls under the category of natural selection and you have the right to defend yourself!!!!! Aim for the center!!

The F-ing thieves could have avoided it by keeping there sorry a....s of my property!!!

That is half the problem with this world...many have abdicated all our responsibilities to someone else. It is NOT law enforcement's job to protect me or my property. It is their job to enforce the law...of course in the act of doing this it sometimes protects someones life or property and that is all well and good. But it is MY responsibility to protect me and mine and I will do so and the law allows me to.

The law is clear...you can use force to protect your property....if it turns into a self-defense situation...you can use deadly force.

[robbiev]

Alright so let me get this straight, some guy can break into my car, steal my stuff and my options are:

Stand and watch

Chase him down and wait for him to brandish a weapon at me risking my life

Or hold him at gun point until police arrive and risk legal action against me?

Thats bs, I mean I know people will say its just stuff its not worth someones life but thats MY stuff that I work hard for.

Essentially, those are the basics. You have a right under TN law to use force to stop the person, but not deadly force unless he is using deadly force against you. "Stuff" being worth a person's life is a matter of opinion, but essentially TN law sees a person's life as always more important than any things.

[TMF]

The law is clear...you can use force to protect your property....if it turns into a self-defense situation...you can use deadly force.

Rog, if someone is trespassing with the intent to conduct criminal activity on my property the rifle is coming out. Whether or not that rifle starts talking is really up to him.

[Guest RevScottie]

Here is a similar case:

2/10/2011 - Grand Jury Declines To Indict Teacher In Cemetery Case - Breaking News - Chattanoogan.com