Texas Permit Class Radio Ad

[NadieLite]

It starts getting good around 45 seconds.

[bigwakes]

I bet the ACLU stands up for the rights of Muslims and Arabs on this one. I would take the class from him even though I already have a permit.

[BrasilNuts]

I bet the ACLU stands up for the rights of Muslims and Arabs on this one. I would take the class from him even though I already have a permit.

Or at least go shake his hand.

[Guest PapaB]

This ad cracked up my wife. She likes this guys style.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I bet the ACLU stands up for the rights of Muslims and Arabs on this one. I would take the class from him even though I already have a permit.

awesome post, loved it!

The ACLU doesn't have a leg to stand on, as a private business, he has the right to refuse to service to anyone, at any time, for any reason, with or without cause.

Besides, if you were an African American or Muslim, or non-christian, why would you want to go take that class there anyhow knowing you're not wanted or welcome there? If I were one of the above listed, I'd avoid a place like that like the plague, and go take it at some place I wouldn't have to worry about a guy like that.

Some might say he's discriminating, but I think it might be a conflict of interest with his religious belief system and position on firearms rights that is the main underlying cause of why he would refuse to teach those listed in his class and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But as i was once told by an attorney, it's not discrimination if you're not denying them employment, housing, or infringing upon his basic civil rights. As we all know, carrying a gun with a permit isn't a right (DaveTN has pounded this into my head through his responses to my many misguided posts where I stated it was a right) it's a privilege

[G27]

The ACLU doesn't have a leg to stand on, as a private business, he has the right to refuse to service to anyone, at any time, for any reason, with or without cause.

Err, I don't believe that's correct. It should be how it works, but I don't think it currently is...

[Guest WyattEarp]

Err, I don't believe that's correct. It should be how it works, but I don't think it currently is...

go to google and put in this

Texas + right to refuse service

there's a ton of businesses that have it on their website, and there's a bunch of articles pertaining to it. Businesses do it all the time

[G27]

go to google and put in this

Texas + right to refuse service

there's a ton of businesses that have it on their website, and there's a bunch of articles pertaining to it. Businesses do it all the time

I'm not saying they don't have the right to refuse service, but the Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

IOW, saying 'if you voted for Obama I won't accept your business' is OK, but it's not ok to state 'if you're a muslim I won't accept your business.'

I believe every business should be able to refuse anyone based on anything, personally, but Federal law says otherwise - there are 'protected classes'...

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ETA: IANAL, could be wrong, etc etc...

[wcsc12]

It starts getting good around 45 seconds.

I honestly don't know what to say...at first I was laughing at the we take "Gold, Silver, and Used Guns" as a form of payment part but then he got a little weird at the end. I mean, free speech is one thing but seriously....

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Besides, if you were an African American or Muslim, or non-christian, why would you want to go take that class there anyhow knowing you're not wanted or welcome there? If I were one of the above listed, I'd avoid a place like that like the plague, and go take it at some place I wouldn't have to worry about a guy like that.

I don't recall the feller saying anything about African Americans. Keller's political requirements are fairly unambiguous but he does not explicitly ban anyone from his class based on race, sex, or politics. Keller merely requests that some people should not take his class-- "If you are a socialist liberal, and/or voted for the current campaigner in chief, please do not take this class."

He doesn't say he won't take their money. He merely asks them not to take his class.

Truth Table of this restriction--

* Non-Socialist Liberal who DID NOT vote for Obama = Welcome

* Socialist Liberal (regardless of voting for Obama) = Not Banned but Not Welcome

* Obama Voter (regardless of race, sex or political views) = Not Banned but Not Welcome

Presumably Keller doesn't have anything against black, yellow, white, brown, or green people as long as they are not socialist liberals and/or they did not vote for Obama.

EXCEPT POSSIBLY any color of feller who would be classified as arab or non-christian or moslem. It is difficult to precisely determine Keller's racist/religious proscriptions without knowing where he puts the commas in this relevant phrase. Where are the commas sposed to go?

Interpretation A-- "Also if you are a non-christian arab, or moslem, I will not teach you the class"

Interpretation B-- "Also if you are a non-christian, arab, or moslem, I will not teach you the class"

Interpretation A only rejects a FEW people living in Texas. Interpretation B rejects MANY people living in Texas.

Interpretation A--

--1: No non-christian arabs, although christian arabs presumably would be welcome.

--2: In addition, no moslems regardless of race, sex, or national origin.

Interpretation B--

--1: No arabs of any sort.

--2: No non-christians regardless of race or sex, possibly also excluding Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists or Catholics. Definitely excluding such as Jews, Buddhists, Athiests or Agnostics.

--3: No moslems regardless of race, sex, or national origin. However, the moslem restriction seems redundant because moslems are by definition non-christian and covered by category 2 above. Perhaps there are a few poor confused Texan Moslems who also believe themselves to be Christians, or vice-versa. Those few people are probably so confused that they voted for Obama, anyway. And they all live in Austin.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[Guest PapaB]

Not wanting to teach non-Christian Arabs, or Muslims, how to get a gun permit is understandable to me. I wouldn't want to train someone that might be the next Fort Hood shooter. Every week there seem to be stories about some "good muslim" that turned out to be planning the next mass shooting or bombing. I know there are good Muslims that want to live the American dream but it's impossible to identify them when they sign up for a handgun class. He should be able to exclude this group but the ACLU will probably disagree.

[jgradyc]

About 55 seconds into the ad, he states "but if you are a non-Christian Arab or Muslim, I will not teach you the class."

This action would be a violation of Federal Law, specifically the Federal Civil Rights Act, which guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

I'm less certain whether he can say this without violating the law, but should either named party show up for one of his classes and be denied service, it would be a violation of federal law.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I don't recall the feller saying anything about African Americans.

doh! there goes my fingers typing faster than my brain again.

[Guest Victor9er]

I have a question.... what's a "Moslum" exactly? Are they a derivative of the Muslim religion in some way?

[Guest DELETED]

And you wonder why lots of people associate gun owners with ignorant bumpkins.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I completely understand, and support this guy 100%. If it is against federal law then I think we need to change that law (as it relates to firearms or any other advanced training having to do with Combat or firearms). Just my 2 cents

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I have a question.... what's a "Moslum" exactly? Are they a derivative of the Muslim religion in some way?

Hi Victor9er

I could be mistaken, but Moslem is simply an alternate English spelling of the word. If I recall correctly, back in the 1950's and 1960's, Moslem was the most common spelling one would see in magazines or school books.

So the spelling/pronunciation might be a clue the the fellow's age and when he went to school.

[Guest PapaB]

Hi Victor9er

I could be mistaken, but Moslem is simply an alternate English spelling of the word. If I recall correctly, back in the 1950's and 1960's, Moslem was the most common spelling one would see in magazines or school books.

So the spelling/pronunciation might be a clue the the fellow's age and when he went to school.

You are correct that "Moslem" is an alternate spelling although "Moslum" is a different story.

[strickj]

Not wanting to teach non-Christian Arabs, or Muslims, how to get a gun permit is understandable to me. I wouldn't want to train someone that might be the next Fort Hood shooter. Every week there seem to be stories about some "good muslim" that turned out to be planning the next mass shooting or bombing. I know there are good Muslims that want to live the American dream but it's impossible to identify them when they sign up for a handgun class. He should be able to exclude this group but the ACLU will probably disagree.

Yup... and while we're at it, let's stop teaching while teenage boys how to shoot, too. I know that there are some good white teens out there but it's just impossible to identify them when so many shoot up middle schools...

[JeffsSig]

Mr Crockett Keller My hat is not as big as yours but it is OFF to you!

[Oh Shoot]

....The ACLU doesn't have a leg to stand on, as a private business, he has the right to refuse to service to anyone, at any time, for any reason, with or without cause. ...

Except he is licensed by the state of Texas to teach the course.

In a related story, sounds like they'll probably nuke him.

- OS

[mav]

Taking what I wrote from my duplicated thread (sorry about that) on the topic

While I do not share this man's bigotry, I must admit that I did give a "hell yeah" when I heard the ad primarily due to all of the political correct b.s. that we are inundated with on a daily basis.

Every one of us has the God-given right to be a bigot, and for a business owner to metaphorically drop his shorts and let it all hang out for the world to see, well... I gotta respect that even if I disagree with his views.

Except he is licensed by the state of Texas to teach the course.

In a related story, sounds like they'll probably nuke him.

- OS

What does it matter whether he is licensed by the state to teach the course? Are there any stipulations in this license stating that he cannot discriminate on who he teaches? I wouldn't think so, but I don't really know. That is why I am asking the question.

In this case, I think the private business aspect trumps any sort of governmental involvement, i.e. required to obtain a license from the state. His refusal to teach muslims, liberals, or non-Christians in no way reflects on the equality and freedom of religion stance of the state.

Ultimately, if people are abhorred with his ad then they have the freedom to seek training and spend their money elsewhere. Free market in action.

[Oh Shoot]

....

What does it matter whether he is licensed by the state to teach the course? ..

The Texas bureaucrat in the article (I'll try to find it again) seemed to think so, since it's a state program, and the state can't discriminate.

I mean, he could teach general handgun safety and defense and refuse however he wanted, but to teach specifically for the state program certification seems to be a different matter, and I can understand that as per the application of the anti-discrimination laws.

edit: here's one mention:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-20128621/texas-gun-teachers-ad-muslims-need-not-apply/

" The Texas Department of Public Safety is now investigating whether to revoke or suspend Keller's license to teach concealed handgun courses.

"Conduct by an instructor that denied service to individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion would place that instructor's certification by the Department at risk of suspension or revocation," the department said in a statement. "

- OS

Edited November 2, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest PapaB]

Yup... and while we're at it, let's stop teaching while teenage boys how to shoot, too. I know that there are some good white teens out there but it's just impossible to identify them when so many shoot up middle schools...

Gee, I wasn't aware that a large group of radicalized white teenage boys had vowed to kill Americans. Where are their indoctrination and training camps located? How many thousands are being recruited and trained? Maybe next time you can try an analogy that fits. (end facetiousness)

I understand that you don't share my feelings and I frankly don't like them either. I'm sure the fliight instructors in Florida that inadvertently trained the 9/11 highjackers understand. We had a similar problem in Vietnam and I lost several good friends to suicide bombers for the cong. I won't apologize for how I feel but I do wish I weren't put into the position of feeling that way by those that want us dead. Until they stop being cowards, hiding among the innocent, I won't "assume" that I can identify the good from the bad.

[Guest Jollydogg]

Not teenagers, but Timothy McVeigh, the Uni Bomber? Point is, bad people will always be bad with the intentions of killing, regardless of race, skin color, or religion.

If he is teaching the class for a state program, where the state issues the license, he is wrong. Don't worry, let me ease your paranoia...not all Muslims are waiting to blow you up with a shoddy made explosive device. You DO realize people of all races commit violent crimes, correct? Is it possible to separate the good from the bad based on that?

I'm really surprised at all of the amount of openly displayed bigotry I'm seeing here.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Jollydogg