Glock and S&W M&P tinkering & lessons learned

[graycrait]

I installed a Zev Tec Fulcrum trigger kit into my Glock 17L, I like it a lot. The pre and overtravel are much reduced and the reset seems shorter. Nice positive reset with no "Mushy" feel on the break at all. I may end up getting 2 or more of these. I took the Lightening Strike trigger out of the G17L and put it in my Beta G19.

I also installed in both my 17L and BG19 two new extractor plungers from White Noise Defense: H.R.E.D. 9mm - White Sound Defense Why use these? I'm not sure. I like to try out Glock, Ruger and some other weapons' aftermarket.

Glock Warehouse - Manfucaturer Products - ZEV TECHNOLOGIES I got the Zev Tec Fulcrum trigger through Brownells using my military retiree discount.

Lightening Strike: Glock Triggers by Lightning Strike Products Inc.

As a matter of course I do a .25 trigger job on my Glocks but I do like trying out aftermarket triggers. Including the triggers mentioned here I have also used Vanek triggers. Home - Vanek Custom

I would recommend Fulcrum over the others at this point.

I also installed an Apex trigger in my S& M&P 9L. I got this M&P in a trade, not my first M&P - the second (I got rid of the first one about 4 weeks after getting it), but the first one I have fiddled with. The M&P seems like it has twice the parts of the Glock. This kit required that I replace parts in the slide and frame. The M&P has two springs on the striker. You also have to remove the rear sight to get the safety plunger out exposing a tiny disk and a small spring and plunger. All of which can get lost. The Extractor has to be removed by knocking out a roll pin aka CZ pistols. Also the lower seemingly has many more parts than the Glock.

The sear plunger spring is the tiniest spring in a gun I remember having seen and I promptly lost it, which I found much later. Thankfully I had a new one as part of the Apex trigger kit. If you watch the Apex Tactical Youtube installation video you will note that their armorer had a tough time with this part of the reinstallation too.

The lower also has two roll pins and a trigger pin that have to be knocked out. (I'm so used to pushing Glock pins). Watch that spring wire that tensions the takedown lever. I got the gun together and saw this laying on the table under something and wondered what is that? Oh well, knocked the pins out again and reinstalled it. I should watch the videos or look at a diagram before I start these projects not after.

I do have to say that the trigger is lighter with a nice break, but the creep is gritty even after I polished the striker's face which interfaces with the sear. The Apex sear is touted as a "hard" sear, but I am afraid I will have to dismantle this thing again and polish the sear face. The trigger take up seems extreme to me with the M&P but that doesn't really turn me off, although it is something I would like to address. The trigger itself fits my hinky RH index finger pretty well and the bore axis of the pistol is low like the Glock. I am not fond of the many little parts of the M&P vice the Glock though. But the grip is wonderful now that I have slightly reshaped one of the grip inserts.

Apex triggers: https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html also purchased through Brownells at a discount

I broke my HiViz sight that I tried to install on the M&P. Later I talked to an Army helo mechanic who did the same thing with his M&P. He said the second time he did it he froze the front sight in the freezer and heated up the slide with a hair dryer and it went in easily. Seems obvious now. I installed Warren Tactical on the rear and reinstalled a tritium of some brand on the front. Sometimes a brass punch and hammer are not the answer. I am going to have to try one of those Kaiser universal sight tools.

I like the Glock's simplicity over the M&Ps action design. I wish the Glocks innards could transferred to the M&P's ergonomics.

Unrelated but thought I would toss this in too - I ordered some things for my traditional bows from 3 Rivers Archery for the first time. Efficient and helpful: 3Rivers Archery Equipment, Traditional Youth Archery Bows and Arrows, and Long Bow Hunting

[TnShooter83]

Yeah, I never liked working puzzles with a hammer. (rolled pins)

And I'm pretty sure a 5 year old could disassemble and reassemble a Glock.

Ok, I guess it's obvious by now I prefer Glocks.

They make them so easy to take apart and clean, yet no one ever does. - Except me.

[RWF]

i will give you the credit on Mr. Glock a very simple pistol that works great. i did shoot glocks for several years.

but i do like the M & P pro pistol alot over the G34. maybe in about ten years there will be alot more "drop in trigger parts and trigger assy like the glock has now"

anyway i tried the apex parts once it came out aweful. i have tried others built with the APEX parts that were nice. just me and highly skilled hammer i guess.

we have 5 M & P's right now, 4 of them have 2.75 triggers with the travel fixed, done with Factory Pro parts. 3 were done by Dan and 1 by SSS " which only sales parts now" the 5th is a 45 also done by Dan but did buy a SSS sear.

[graycrait]

RWF,

Who is Dan? Also do you have M&Ps with very little take up (pre travel) in the triggers?

Craig

[RWF]

Burwell Gunsmithing- Your M&P specialist

he is hard to get ahold of, remember the travel work is extra, so be sure you ask for it. i do not like going below 2.75# on the trigger because lower than that to me it is no longer crisp.

[samson7x]

I installed the competition APEX kit in my fullsize 9 and it made it an entirely new pistol IMO. I would like to take some pretravel out though. I also need to do some file work on that little safety feature on the trigger. Its so light that it tends to drag making it feel less smooth.

[graycrait]

What initially disappoints me about the Apex in the M&P vs Vanek/Fulcrum or Lightening Strike Glock triggers:

1. Installation time of Apex is much longer in M&P vs Venek, Fulcrum or Lightening Strike or even Ghost Rocket Connector of Glocks

2. Installation of complete Apex in M&P is a comparative PIA with all Glock aftermarket.

2. Pretravel length of Apex is annoying enough to make you think about it, something I should not have to think about.

3. Gritty pretravel of Apex.

Only thing that keeps me working with M&P is superior out of the box ergonomics of trigger shoe and grip. Installation of aftermarket front and rear sight is is also a PIA compared to Glock.

Like a couple of years ago the "fiddley" nature of the M&P is starting to turn me off.

Craig

[RWF]

i tryed some of the guns that others did there own trigger work ( M & P ) none of it was gritty. replacing the sear will not change any of the travel. like i said Dan does all of our M & P's since SSS does only parts now.

all the pretravel work is on the front part of trigger bar and the over travel is done to the metal part of the frame to the right of the sear.

for a very 1911 like trigger, for less than some of the high end drop in triggers for the glock.

it is the return overnight shipping cost that i do not like.