What a friday night...

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Sounds like an aggravating hassle fer sure.

Am not trying to justify the hassle, but with all the gang crime, folks might get antsy seeing a kid carrying.

Dunno if this is common but as I get older it becomes difficult to judge young folks age. Lots of people below the age of 30 look so young maybe they are still in high school fer all I know.

Which is the exact opposite of how it appeared when I was young. When I was about 15, the high school senior girls looked like they were going to seed and the college girls looked wrinkled, saggy and over the hill. And anybody over 40 looked so old they seemed likely to die of old age any minute.

[charlessummers]

In all... it sounds like more public education of the handgun laws is needed. Funny thing is, I was in Burger King the other day for lunch and a guy came in open carrying and no-one says a word about it. He was dress in a manner though that would give the impression that he was an LEA. It was obvious to me though that he wasn't... and I finally asked. Now, if some kid in blue jeans and a t-shirt came in with a Glock exposed on his hip, people would have freaked, and I'm sure management would have sent him out of the restaurant or have called the police. Sounds kind of like what the OP went through here...

[Fallguy]

In all... it sounds like more public education of the handgun laws is needed. Funny thing is, I was in Burger King the other day for lunch and a guy came in open carrying and no-one says a word about it. He was dress in a manner though that would give the impression that he was an LEA. It was obvious to me though that he wasn't... and I finally asked. Now, if some kid in blue jeans and a t-shirt came in with a Glock exposed on his hip, people would have freaked, and I'm sure management would have sent him out of the restaurant or have called the police. Sounds kind of like what the OP went through here...

There is an old saying..."perception is reality"

If people perceive you as someone that should, or it is ok to, have a firearm, they won't think much of it. If they don't think you should, they'll become sheeple.

Educations may help this some....but not as much as we'd like. In the end...it is illegal to carry a firearm in TN and only 3-5% have an exception to this.

[Guest WyattEarp]

Until they ask you to leave. And then if you don't it's trespassing.

I have never seen a mall that is posted, but they all have a list of "rules" posted somewhere inside the building. And those "rules" include no weapons. You're free to carry all day long - I do - because those rules do not carry the force of law. But they are free to ask you to leave if they see your gun and don't want it in the building. If you do not leave when they want you to, you will be in trouble. The trouble doesn't implicate whether you are legally carrying or not, but the trouble is still real.

That's true. I do wonder just to be argumentative and play devil's advocate, does the security guard actually have the legal ground in which to ask you to leave? Or would it have to be a member of the Mall Management? After all the security guard could just be making up his own set of rules for all anyone knows.

If the mall isn't posted, then there's no way possible for a reasonable person to know what the mall's policy is. If the guest/customer is not notified of the rules and the rules aren't in plain view for everyone to see, then I don't see what ground the security guard or the mall really has to stand on, aside from the fact that any business can refuse service at anytime to any person without cause.

In all... it sounds like more public education of the handgun laws is needed. Funny thing is, I was in Burger King the other day for lunch and a guy came in open carrying and no-one says a word about it. He was dress in a manner though that would give the impression that he was an LEA. It was obvious to me though that he wasn't... and I finally asked. Now, if some kid in blue jeans and a t-shirt came in with a Glock exposed on his hip, people would have freaked, and I'm sure management would have sent him out of the restaurant or have called the police. Sounds kind of like what the OP went through here...

you can't fix the stupid or the ignorant, no matter how much education you try to provide them with. Blame the media for the mass hysteria that results when someone is seen carrying a gun. Blame the anti-gun advocates that go around screaming that guns are bad, and use every instance of violence as a soapbox to preach more legislation, tighter laws, and more restriction. The media constantly floods the 5, 6 and 10 pm news with stories of gun crimes, and gun violence, and shootings. I'm of the opinion, High Schools should start mandating a firearms handling and safety education class as a graduation requirement. They can educate kids on sex, and STD and pregnancy prevention, then they oughta start doing it with firearms. As a benefit to the class, you get your Tennessee Hunter's Safety Education Cert, you learn how to properly handle, load and unload a firearm, get a little target practice, and throw in a little history on firearms as well as a little bit of legal (basic and generalized laws nothing technical) stuff, like where you can't carry, and a few basic situational scenarios.

What gets me is, someone sees a gun, and all logic and thought processes go right out the window. If the person is acting calm, and conducting themselves as a normal person would, and they're not being erratic, not being aggressive, just minding their business and doing what they came to do (i.e. shopping, eating, buying groceries whatever it may be), you'd think a reasonable person would say, ok, he has a gun, but he's doing normal activities, he's not behaving like he's about to rob the place, maybe he's legally carrying?

But I guess expecting the general public to exercise common sense is about as futile as expecting the politicians in this country to actually make productive and effective changes.

wasting precious police manpower, time and resources (as in the original posted) just because someone looks young and is carrying a gun, to go check it out, when he's not acting in a way that should even cause concern.

Now if the guy was all pissed off, yelling at someone in the parking lot, or otherwise behaving like he's about to go postal then I understand notify the police.

I may just write an article for the MTSU Sideline on unnecessary gun paranoia.

[bubbadavis]

Anyone want to chime in on the legality of LEO running his serial number? The stop and disarming is clearly allowed by TN law. Without probable cause to believe the pistol is stolen, running the serial number could be a 4th amendment violation. Can the police run the VIN to make sure your car isn't stolen on a simple traffic stop?

[Rightwinger]

Pretty much done the moment they call in your tag on the stop

[TMF]

Anyone want to chime in on the legality of LEO running his serial number? The stop and disarming is clearly allowed by TN law.

"You do not have to inform an officer you are armed, but if requested

you must show your permit to the officer. He can also disarm you if he

feels it is “reasonablly necessary†for his safety, your safety or the

safety of others."

Not that I'm going to argue with a police officer if he asks to disarm me, but I am going to inform him of my rights and let him know that I intend to file a formal complaint if he still insists on disarming me. I don't think it's appropriate to be treated as if I'm a danger simply because I'm legally carrying.

[Glock30]

I do wonder just to be argumentative and play devil's advocate, does the security guard actually have the legal ground in which to ask you to leave?

Yep, sure does. Private property. If the security guard doesn't like the color of your shoes, he can ask you to leave.

I had to go to the ER some time back and was carrying. The hospital is not posted or anything REMOTELY like it. Being a good patient, I read all my paperwork before I signed anything. One line on the paperwork is that the patient isn't allowed to have any weapons and they're subject to confiscation if found. Now, the hospital will be confiscating something else should they try to keep any firearm of mine. I DID ask the girl behind the desk about it. She had the uh oh look on her face and promptly called security. Though I didn't like it much, the security guard escorted me out to my car to disarm and then came back in with me. He was very polite and a HCP holder himself - but employed as UNarmed security.

Bottom line, non-posted venues are subject to the whims of whoever is on duty.

[Fallguy]

Anyone want to chime in on the legality of LEO running his serial number? The stop and disarming is clearly allowed by TN law. Without probable cause to believe the pistol is stolen, running the serial number could be a 4th amendment violation. Can the police run the VIN to make sure your car isn't stolen on a simple traffic stop?

It's done all the time. I'm sure if it was illegal it would have been challenged by now...

[bubbadavis]

It's done all the time. I'm sure if it was illegal it would have been challenged by now...

Thanks Fallguy. Everything else seemed obviously allowed by TCA. Didn't know if they needed a reason to run the serial #.

[Fallguy]

Thanks Fallguy. Everything else seemed obviously allowed by TCA. Didn't know if they needed a reason to run the serial #.

Well technically you are supposed to have a reason to check anything through the computer...but other than on criminal histories the reason can be pretty liberal and aren't really logged or checked.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I'd file a complaint on the checking of the serial number, that's just bull****. He showed his ID, showed his permit and that he was legally carrying and doing nothing wrong, that cop was just looking for a reason, any reason to hassle him and take him to jail.

Yep, sure does. Private property. If the security guard doesn't like the color of your shoes, he can ask you to leave.

I had to go to the ER some time back and was carrying. The hospital is not posted or anything REMOTELY like it. Being a good patient, I read all my paperwork before I signed anything. One line on the paperwork is that the patient isn't allowed to have any weapons and they're subject to confiscation if found. Now, the hospital will be confiscating something else should they try to keep any firearm of mine. I DID ask the girl behind the desk about it. She had the uh oh look on her face and promptly called security. Though I didn't like it much, the security guard escorted me out to my car to disarm and then came back in with me. He was very polite and a HCP holder himself - but employed as UNarmed security.

Bottom line, non-posted venues are subject to the whims of whoever is on duty.

fair enough.

[LazyAce]

I was in Murfreesboro last weekend for my once a year visit to my home town. Wife & I were in the mall several times and never saw a sign anywhere. That is the first thing I check wherever I go. There was a Rent-A-Cop walking around looking important. As a nice guy I said Hi and he looked at me like I was some piece of trash and walked off. I am 66 years old and a lot older than he was. I felt like tripping him up with my cane. Then there was one outside in a mall cop car just watching everyone that went in & out. They must have been afraid that someone might scare them. Just a bunch of want-to-be-important jerks.

[pattywak]

I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you. I've carried in a Supertuck many times at Stones River and have never had any problem. I carry a full-size pistol, so I am not worried about printing a little bit and I still have never been accosted by the rent-a-cops there. Hopefully this doesn't happen again to you or anyone else.

[wipfel]

That's true. I do wonder just to be argumentative and play devil's advocate, does the security guard actually have the legal ground in which to ask you to leave? Or would it have to be a member of the Mall Management? After all the security guard could just be making up his own set of rules for all anyone knows.

If the mall isn't posted, then there's no way possible for a reasonable person to know what the mall's policy is. If the guest/customer is not notified of the rules and the rules aren't in plain view for everyone to see, then I don't see what ground the security guard or the mall really has to stand on, aside from the fact that any business can refuse service at anytime to any person without cause.

you can't fix the stupid or the ignorant, no matter how much education you try to provide them with. Blame the media for the mass hysteria that results when someone is seen carrying a gun. Blame the anti-gun advocates that go around screaming that guns are bad, and use every instance of violence as a soapbox to preach more legislation, tighter laws, and more restriction. The media constantly floods the 5, 6 and 10 pm news with stories of gun crimes, and gun violence, and shootings. I'm of the opinion, High Schools should start mandating a firearms handling and safety education class as a graduation requirement. They can educate kids on sex, and STD and pregnancy prevention, then they oughta start doing it with firearms. As a benefit to the class, you get your Tennessee Hunter's Safety Education Cert, you learn how to properly handle, load and unload a firearm, get a little target practice, and throw in a little history on firearms as well as a little bit of legal (basic and generalized laws nothing technical) stuff, like where you can't carry, and a few basic situational scenarios.

What gets me is, someone sees a gun, and all logic and thought processes go right out the window. If the person is acting calm, and conducting themselves as a normal person would, and they're not being erratic, not being aggressive, just minding their business and doing what they came to do (i.e. shopping, eating, buying groceries whatever it may be), you'd think a reasonable person would say, ok, he has a gun, but he's doing normal activities, he's not behaving like he's about to rob the place, maybe he's legally carrying?

But I guess expecting the general public to exercise common sense is about as futile as expecting the politicians in this country to actually make productive and effective changes.

wasting precious police manpower, time and resources (as in the original posted) just because someone looks young and is carrying a gun, to go check it out, when he's not acting in a way that should even cause concern.

Now if the guy was all pissed off, yelling at someone in the parking lot, or otherwise behaving like he's about to go postal then I understand notify the police.

I may just write an article for the MTSU Sideline on unnecessary gun paranoia.

I agree with the majority about this situation but in regards to common sense and someone acting normal, i think few mass shootings were obvious to the folks present before they happened. Also how many times have u heard the neighbors of serial killers say, "he seemed like a normal guy."

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[partypilot1]

That's why it's always best to conceal, even when walking in the mall. I'm sure you learned your lesson, if you like all the attention you received on friday then carry openly. I would assume that if you where in a foreign territory where inconspicuous behavior and concealment is a matter of survival you would be more diligent. Thankfully you don't have to (yet) but until then it's best to blend

[Guest tommy62]

I'll send letters to the mall and store managements, making them aware of the lost business this incident cost them.

Send a link to this post.

[Wyldk2]

Pretty much done the moment they call in your tag on the stop

Afraid not. The HCP don't show up on car tags. Just if the car is reported stolen, it has nothing to do with the driver( unless the registration and the tag match the owner).

HCP and state drivers license are the only things that do line up. If they run your license, they can tell whether or not you have a permit to carry. Just provide them with that bit of info when they request your license( if driving).

[Fallguy]

Afraid not. The HCP don't show up on car tags. Just if the car is reported stolen, it has nothing to do with the driver( unless the registration and the tag match the owner).

HCP and state drivers license are the only things that do line up. If they run your license, they can tell whether or not you have a permit to carry. Just provide them with that bit of info when they request your license( if driving).

He may have meant about checking if the car is stolen, since even if HCP info was tied to your tag (of course it is not as you say) it couldn't tell you whether the handgun (assuming you were even in possession of one or more) was stolen, without running the serial number on it.

Checking the stolen status of the gun and car were both mentioned in the post above his....not 100% which one he referenced.

[Troutburger]

Afraid not. The HCP don't show up on car tags. Just if the car is reported stolen, it has nothing to do with the driver( unless the registration and the tag match the owner).

HCP and state drivers license are the only things that do line up. If they run your license, they can tell whether or not you have a permit to carry. Just provide them with that bit of info when they request your license( if driving).

I'm not so sure about that. I got pulled over on the way home from the hospital a few years ago, it was about 3 am. First thing the officer asked me was if I was carrying. I had not presented my license or hcp yet....

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm not so sure about that. I got pulled over on the way home from the hospital a few years ago, it was about 3 am. First thing the officer asked me was if I was carrying. I had not presented my license or hcp yet....

Wyldk2 is correct. Your HCP/DL is not attached to your car tags. It can be found (I assume) by looking up the owner of the vehicle by the tag and thereby his DL info, but there is no direct connection.

[JayC]

Carrying a firearm is illegal in TN. That's probable cause.

We assume it's probable cause, to my knowledge that has not been tested in a court of law in TN.

The entirety of the circumstance has to be taken into consideration.

[JayC]

It's done all the time. I'm sure if it was illegal it would have been challenged by now...

I disagree with that statement... Government does a lot of stuff that isn't allowed under the Constitution and nobody challenges the issue all the time.

The problem is the violation is so minor, unless you're an attorney who is bored the cost of taking the police department to court of running the serial number is not cost effective... doesn't make it legal or right on the police departments part.

[Guest bkelm18]

We assume it's probable cause, to my knowledge that has not been tested in a court of law in TN.

The entirety of the circumstance has to be taken into consideration.

Police receive a report of a suspicious person walking around with a firearm. Sounds like probable cause to investigate to me.

[DaveTN]

I do wonder just to be argumentative and play devil's advocate, does the security guard actually have the legal ground in which to ask you to leave? Or would it have to be a member of the Mall Management? After all the security guard could just be making up his own set of rules for all anyone knows.

Of course he can ask you to leave; and he can call the cops if you refuse. If the cops come he can then ban you from the mall permanently. He can make up whatever rules he likes; if you don’t like what he has to say you can contact Mall Management later.

If the mall isn't posted, then there's no way possible for a reasonable person to know what the mall's policy is. If the guest/customer is not notified of the rules and the rules aren't in plain view for everyone to see, then I don't see what ground the security guard or the mall really has to stand on, aside from the fact that any business can refuse service at anytime to any person without cause.

I can legally carry in Stones River Mall; and I do. Make sure you all write letters to the mall management explaining the law to them, so they make sure I can’t.

My weapon is concealed so it’s a non-issue for both them and me. If it becomes exposed and someone complains to Mall Security; they can legally ask me leave. It sounds as if someone complained and they acted on that complaint in a way they thought was appropriate for the incident.

I may just write an article for the MTSU Sideline on unnecessary gun paranoia.

How would you know, have you experienced it in the two weeks you have owned a handgun? Or are you going to reference internet stories?