All US troops out of Iraq by years end.

[Oh Shoot]

What is it that we did there other than waste thousands of lives, not to mention wounded, and billions upon billions of dollars?

That's about it.

Iraq will be under another junta, dictatorship, or iron hand Islamic theocracy within a few years; and/or be a de facto part of Iran.

- OS

[Will H]

Possibly.... Or maybe they have the taste for freedom and want to keep it. The simple fact is we do not know what we did there. Obama's preaching up one side and down the other during his campaign about pulling the troops out immediately right up until his security briefing then backing off proves that we do not know the whole story about why we were there or what we accomplished.

My point is you do not tell the "enemy" what you are going to do before you do it. It's called OPSEC (Operational Security). Every enlisted person in the military knows it, and our Commander in Chief just gave away the plan. All he had to do is go to the JCS (Joint Chiefs of Staff) with over 100 years of combined military experience and say "I want the troops out of Iraq quickly and quietly." He could not do that though, because then he could not have maximized the political credit for it.

[mikegideon]

Hey, I wasn't weighing in about anything other than that's what's happening. I think they should have

nuked the damned place, in the first place. I don't agree with nation building. and I sure don't like paying for it.

i'm glad the soldiers will be coming home, but there will be some bad consequences. Whether or not we could

have done anything about it, I'll leave that up to someone else.

Now you're talkin'

[Garufa]

Now you're talkin'

That makes it a lot harder to get to the oil.

[mikegideon]

That makes it a lot harder to get to the oil.

We could afford to buy the oil. The nukes are already paid for. Got a full tank of gas too.

[ttocswob]

I thought we should have declared victory and left after we got Saddam.

Too bad Obummer doesn't have "victory" in his vocabulary...

[mav]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what a lot of our soldiers think about it. I have been sort of hesitant to comment on how I feel about what we have gained from the last 9 years in Iraq.

During the Bush presidency, as you all know, there was definitely generous use of you are with us or against us national patriotism.

Now, people are talking about Iraq as having been an abject failure yielding us nothing in terms of increasing national security and establishing a democratic ally in the middle east. While I agree with this sentiment, it breaks my heart to say it. I couldn't imagine telling our soldiers that they did a great job and we are proud of them, but in the end their efforts were futile and will not last.

The whole situation just ticks me off. Even though I have serious doubts, hopefully, we can learn from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that we need to stay out of the nation building business. The costs in both treasure and more importantly, american lives, just isn't worth it.

[TMF]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what a lot of our soldiers think about it. I have been sort of hesitant to comment on how I feel about what we have gained from the last 9 years in Iraq.

I spent 3 years of my life there. I have a lot to say about it if there was a thread dedicated to the topic, however, everything I have to say is a tangent off the original topic. In regards to this topic, the success from the strategy used in the surge (reconciliation of Sunnis/no quarter for the hard-liners) is why we were able to reduce troop levels and eventually remove all combat forces. Obama had nothing to do with it. Even if a half-wit Republican had taken office (hypothetical candidate; not at all talking about McCain) the results would be the same. Obama shouldn't be thumping his chest as if he is the reason for this.

[Links2k]

And now our influence in the country will wane. Wonder which country will pick up where we leave off? China/Russia/Iran?

What influence?

[Links2k]

Maybe not. We're not doing such a good job with our own country. I don't know if we CAN help anybody else.

I almost wanted to curse because I agree with you so much. We need to get our house in order first.

[Links2k]

I don't agree with nation building. and I sure don't like paying for it.

I agree !

[Trekbike]

Obama shouldn't be thumping his chest as if he is the reason for this.

The version I heard that's not being advertised is that at the beginning when Bush was in office they set up an agreement to be out by the end of 2011. (Probably at that time they thought that was enough time.) The current administration was trying to get an extension on the agreement and Iraq wouldn't agree to continue to give our soliders immunity. If they killed anyone it would be treated as a murder.

Rightfully so, Obama said "no go", and we'll be out by the end of the year as the original agreement said. I haven't had a chance to verify if this is true.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

There's a model in management training called "leadership by example" and "management by objective",

and on and on. We should project our power and influence by those models when needed, otherwise

we should forget the nation building and stay out of others' situations.

I'll admit to being forgetful about these things, but sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the day to day

politics, and I imagine every President has had his hand in nation building. When one gets caught up in the

expediency of the moment, it's a good time to pause and reflect. Most leaders haven't done that.

It seems to all be about getting re-elected.

[DWARREN123]

I will be glad to see our people out of there but the place will be as bad as ever or worse within a year.

[TMF]

The version I heard that's not being advertised is that at the beginning when Bush was in office they set up an agreement to be out by the end of 2011. (Probably at that time they thought that was enough time.) The current administration was trying to get an extension on the agreement and Iraq wouldn't agree to continue to give our soliders immunity. If they killed anyone it would be treated as a murder.

Rightfully so, Obama said "no go", and we'll be out by the end of the year as the original agreement said. I haven't had a chance to verify if this is true.

Who knows. There's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes; a lot. The only way to get wind is through "leaks" or someone getting a book deal. Neither one I would deem as even halfway reliable; everyone has an agenda.

Something else to think about, although we're saying that ALL troops will be out by the end of the year, that statement isn't true. We'll still have advisors on the ground and a support structure there to keep them doing what they're doing. With the revised SOFA and continued threat I would assume that these advisors won't be leaving the wire at all under any circumstances. Still, the potential exists for a situation to occur where an American uses deadly force in self-defense, especially since the few Americans there would be high value targets to the enemy. It would be very interesting to see how Obama and Hillary handle that.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

The version I heard that's not being advertised is that at the beginning when Bush was in office they set up an agreement to be out by the end of 2011. (Probably at that time they thought that was enough time.) The current administration was trying to get an extension on the agreement and Iraq wouldn't agree to continue to give our soliders immunity. If they killed anyone it would be treated as a murder.

Rightfully so, Obama said "no go", and we'll be out by the end of the year as the original agreement said. I haven't had a chance to verify if this is true.

I don't know where you get your news, but that "version" is being "advertised" all over the places I have heard reporting on it. And they have been talking about it for almost a year. It is very much true.

Bush entered this timeline with the Iraqi government. As the time to withdraw grew closer, our top military advisers realized that we would probably still need to have a few tens of thousands of people left to help support the Iraqi army and infrastructure. Obama had been trying to negotiate a partial extension/amendment to the original agreement which would allow us to leave those tens of thousands of troops in country. Our military folks wanted it, and many of the Iraqi people wanted it, but there were too many political pressures inside the country and no agreement could be reached. Ergo, we pretty much have to leave.

It wasn't a secret that this could be happening very soon. Either an agreement was going to be reached or we were going to be leaving, so this whole "don't tell the enemies your plans" thing was pretty much a moot point after Bush entered into the original agreement. It has influenced the insurgency's behavior to some degree, though. Some insurgent leaders specifically advised their followers to tone down their activities during this whole negotiation process. That way there would be less internal support for keeping our soldiers over there and it would be more likely that we would not be allowed to stay.

[TMF]

Some insurgent leaders specifically advised their followers to tone down their activities during this whole negotiation process. That way there would be less internal support for keeping our soldiers over there and it would be more likely that we would not be allowed to stay.

For sure. Al Sadr adopted this policy to the point of hunting down and killing some of his subordinates for continuing attacks against us during the surge. But does it make a difference in the long run? Eventually we have to leave. Most Americans don't support our involvement, so matter what Military and policy strategists recommend it's public perception which is going to dictate what we do (folks got to get re-elected).

The fact is no matter when we leave or how long we stay the people of Iraq are weak minded sheep and will be unable to find their a$$ with both hands. They will be subject to influence from their neighbors and will most likely devolve into civil war in about 5 to 10 years when the Kurds secede and take Kirkuk with them. Iran will manipulate the Shia government and fund a war to take Kurdistan and end up with the North's oil industry, with a significant percentage of production going east to Iran. With the problems Syria has been having it's not likely that they will be able to provide much support for Sunnis living in the west, which will allow the Shias to dominate politics and take over the government (much in the way the Sunnis did when Saddam was in power). It is what it is. Was Saddam one of the most evil people of our time? Most certainly yes. Was there ever any hope of the Iraqis making it on their own? From what I saw, no.

[greenego]

Iraq rejects US request to maintain bases after troop withdrawal | World news | guardian.co.uk

[Guest WyattEarp]

Just announced by President Obama that all remaining troops in Iraq will be removed by the end of the year, ending the Iraq war.

Obama Announces Complete Withdrawal Of U.S. Forces From Iraq By End Of 2011 | Fox News

amen. it's about time. God bless our Troops for the sacrifice they are making, have made, and will make in the future.

[Links2k]

The version I heard that's not being advertised is that at the beginning when Bush was in office they set up an agreement to be out by the end of 2011. (Probably at that time they thought that was enough time.) The current administration was trying to get an extension on the agreement and Iraq wouldn't agree to continue to give our soliders immunity. If they killed anyone it would be treated as a murder.

Rightfully so, Obama said "no go", and we'll be out by the end of the year as the original agreement said. I haven't had a chance to verify if this is true.

That's the same version that I heard.

[Links2k]

I will be glad to see our people out of there but the place will be as bad as ever or worse within a year.

That part of the world will always be bad regardless of our actions.

[Guest WyattEarp]

Maybe not. We're not doing such a good job with our own country. I don't know if we CAN help anybody else.

Totally agreed. I was pretty disgusted when I heard that Obama and his Administration of morons sent BILLIONS of dollars to Haiti after they had that earthquake.

We can't even tackle and resolve the issues that exist within our own country, and then we turn around and send a ton of money to Haiti, and what do they do? They run around and build a palace, while people are still homeless.

Mayor Builds Palace Among Haiti Rubble - Miami News Story - WPLG Miami

that money could have gone towards something a lot better. we're in no condition to be giving anyone any money at all, let alone rebuilding someone else's country, and sending troops, supplies and other resources.

there's issues and things right here at home that need to be taken care of first.

[TMF]

Totally agreed. I was pretty disgusted when I heard that Obama and his Administration of morons sent BILLIONS of dollars to Haiti after they had that earthquake.

We can't even tackle and resolve the issues that exist within our own country, and then we turn around and send a ton of money to Haiti, and what do they do? They run around and build a palace, while people are still homeless.

Mayor Builds Palace Among Haiti Rubble - Miami News Story - WPLG Miami

that money could have gone towards something a lot better. we're in no condition to be giving anyone any money at all, let alone rebuilding someone else's country, and sending troops, supplies and other resources.

there's issues and things right here at home that need to be taken care of first.

Instead of giving them money we shoulda air dropped pallets of crack and pallets of machetes. The problem would have solved itself inside of a week.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

Look at how much aid we give to Pakistan every year...$12.522 billion And they screw us over every chance they get. Not to mention how much money we give to African nations and Jesus how many other countries have we sent our "Borrowed" Money to? How much was that to Japan? $792,000,000.00, Haiti got $41,268,315 so far. Screw they its not like they give a crap about us.

[Guest bkelm18]

Look at how much aid we give to Pakistan every year...$12.522 billion And they screw us over every chance they get. Not to mention how much money we give to African nations and Jesus how many other countries have we sent our "Borrowed" Money to? How much was that to Japan? $792,000,000.00, Haiti got $41,268,315 so far. Screw they its not like they give a crap about us.

Comparing a civilized industrial nation like Japan to places like Haiti and Pakistan is a bit of a stretch.