Guy stopped by cops while OC'ing - pretty interesting

[piercedan]

This is a guy I subscribe to on youtube. He gets stopped by some police officers and it's a pretty interesting exchange.

[Guest nysos]

Glad that went smoothly for him. Obviously the cops didn't like that he was open carrying, but at least they knew enough to realize he wasn't a threat and that they couldn't do anything about it either. Things could have been a lot worse, but the cops could have done better as well. The cop doing the talking wasn't as polite as he could have been, he clearly wasn't pro open-carry, whether he was pro-carry at all is another question.

[Guest clownsdd]

Good video, guy handled it very well

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Good video, guy handled it very well

+1

[MrDigitaL]

I thought you had to show id if they asked.

[MattCary]

I thought you had to show id if they asked.

Apparently not in Oregon, perhaps you only have to show ID if they have reasonable cause to stop you? He asked if he was being detained... maybe if they detain you, then you have to show ID?

[Guest nysos]

Apparently not in Oregon, perhaps you only have to show ID if they have reasonable cause to stop you? He asked if he was being detained... maybe if they detain you, then you have to show ID?

I don't believe it is a law by state, by covered by some federal ruling. If fallguy catches wind of this thread I am sure he will set us all straight, BUT I believe in any state for just a stop where you have not committed any sort of crime - you are not required to show any form of ID if requested. Hence also why he was asking "am I being detained?" if they are not detaining him, he has no obligation to stick around and talk to them. It would be no different than some stranger walking down the street and trying to get you to stop and talk with them.

[daddyo]

I've seen several videos and read several accounts in different states where the person being stopped refused to show ID, and the LEO couldn't legally require them to comply, so it must be a federal statute, as long as they have no reasonable cause to suspect you of criminal activity.

My understanding is that either you are being detained (for which they must have reasonable suspicion) or you are free to go about your business. This guy knew his rights, and the LEO's KNEW that he knew.

[TMF]

Hmmm... I guess I'm curious to have a LEO clear this up. I get that you can't be forced to show ID when just walking down the street and not committing a crime, but isn't there some sort of implied consent (?) if you get pulled over while driving that makes it a crime to not show ID to prove you're legally allowed to drive? Or is it just if you get pulled over while committing an offense (like speeding)?

I don't think there would ever be a time that I would not show ID to a police officer that asks (unless he's being a real d*ck for no reason), but I'm just curious. Any experienced LEOs want to answer this one?

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I would say that if the cops wanted to they could have legally questioned him longer and would have been within their right to do so. Openly carrying a weapon does not give a police man probably cause to search or require a citizen to show their identification (however, in the military you always are required to show an MP or post security your Identification upon request no matter what).

He was completely within his rights to not show his identification. Police need probably cause to search and detain. Phone calls about someone with a gun does not give them authority to question or detain him if he is carrying within the parameters of the law. However, I will say that the Police Officer asking if he had felony's brings up a valid point for Police to be able to check you in the database (not that I agree but it is a good argument). They wouldn't be infringing on your rights, but some could argue that someone needs to be able to verify that you are legal in carrying a firearm openly.

[daddyo]

Remove the firearm from the equation.

Does the LEO now have the right to stop you and ask you if you have any felonies and ask to see your ID because someone called and said you looked "suspicious"?

Edited October 3, 2011 by DaddyO

[Guest drv2fst]

I know he claimed the video was not staged but it seems clear to me that he got exactly what he was looking for. He stopped filming immediately after the confrontation with LEO and said "that's how you deal with COPS!". He had clearly set this up. That does not mean LEO was in on it. Just that he clearly did this ONLY to provoke their response.

That said, I can't decide if I am in favor of his actions or against it. On one hand it seems stupid to provoke these officers. On the other, all he did was demonstrate his rights. It's not something that I would do. I would not go out to intentionally provoke my local LEO. However, I respect his right to do so.

I think if he wanted to educate the LEO he would have prepared a statement that would be more educational instead of confrontational.

[Tenifer17]

For the love of God , when you get stopped by a police officer , a deputy , a state trooper ( we dont have "cops" in the area I live in in Tn ) , or any other type of Law Enforcement person , just use common sense and show them that you are who you say you are . Come on people , Police have a hard enough job as it is . This guy , like a lot , was there to stir up ***** . If I ever get stopped I just tell them like it is and who I am . People like this guy in the video are just buttholes looking for drama . I always cover my gun when in public , but if the wind gets up and blows my shirt open and a police officer sees it , and he asked me for a permit , then I will show him with no problem . I can not stand idiots like this guy looking for drama .

Edited October 3, 2011 by Tenifer17

[Guest bkelm18]

As for the required to show ID thing, IIRC, since your ID is state issued, only State Police (THP) can legally ask to see it without reason. Local LEOs have to have cause to ask for your ID. I recall reading something like that here at some point.

[daddyo]

For the love of God , when you get stopped by a police officer , a deputy , a state trooper ( we dont have "cops" in the area I live in in Tn ) , or any other type of Law Enforcement person , just use common sense and show them that you are who you say you are . Come on people , Police have a hard enough job as it is . This guy , like a lot , was there to stir up ***** . If I ever get stopped I just tell them like it is and who I am . People like this guy in the video are just buttholes looking for drama . I always cover my gun when in public , but if the wind gets up and blows my shirt open and a police officer sees it , and he asked me for a permit , then I will show him with no problem . I can not stand idiots like this guy looking for drama .

If you want to give up your constitutional rights so easily, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to go looking for trouble, but if I'm minding my own business, and not doing anything wrong, I'm not going to be so passive while still being respectful.

Having a tough job is not justification for violating someone else's constitutional rights. Is it?

Edited October 3, 2011 by DaddyO

[Guest adamoxtwo]

Remove the firearm from the equation.

Does the LEO now have the right to stop you and ask you if you have any felonies and ask to see your ID because someone called and said you looked "suspicious"?

No, but without a Firearm that is an irrelevant question.

Edited October 3, 2011 by adamoxtwo

[Guest adamoxtwo]

For the love of God , when you get stopped by a police officer , a deputy , a state trooper ( we dont have "cops" in the area I live in in Tn ) , or any other type of Law Enforcement person , just use common sense and show them that you are who you say you are . Come on people , Police have a hard enough job as it is . This guy , like a lot , was there to stir up ***** . If I ever get stopped I just tell them like it is and who I am . People like this guy in the video are just buttholes looking for drama . I always cover my gun when in public , but if the wind gets up and blows my shirt open and a police officer sees it , and he asked me for a permit , then I will show him with no problem . I can not stand idiots like this guy looking for drama .

Yes but yours was concealed and required a permit which LEO's can inspect once they see a concealed gun on a person.

[daddyo]

No, but without a Firearm that is an irreverent question.

Well, far be it from me to ever be "irreverent".

[Tenifer17]

If you want to give up your constitutional rights so easily, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to go looking for trouble, but if I'm minding my own business, and not doing anything wrong, I'm not going to be so passive while still being respectful.

Having a tough job is not justification for violating someone else's constitutional rights. Is it?

Let us pretend that your mother just got shot and killed by a guy with a gun who had just been stopped by the police and he told them "I dont have to talk to you because I dont have to" . How would you feel about that ? I bet , and I really bet that you would sue that same police dept . for not "doing something to prevent that " . Just my $.02

[Tenifer17]

Bottom line is that people , not all but a lot , seem to be looking for drama to make a big deal about it .

[daddyo]

Let us pretend that your mother just got shot and killed by a guy with a gun who had just been stopped by the police and he told them "I dont have to talk to you because I dont have to" . How would you feel about that ? I bet , and I really bet that you would sue that same police dept . for not "doing something to prevent that " . Just my $.02

Doesn't matter how I would "feel" about it. And, no, I'm not the kind to abuse the legal system. Anyone who would blame the police for the actions of a murderer is misguided. Someone legally carrying a handgun is NOT, I repeat, NOT probable cause for the police to detain him/her.

But it sounds to me like you're saying that government officials should be able to violate a citizen's constitutional rights because of what they "might" do.

Do you understand the 4th Amendment? Do you understand probable cause?

Edited October 3, 2011 by DaddyO

[Guest nicemac]

Let us pretend that your mother just got shot and killed by a guy with a gun who had just been stopped by the police and he told them "I dont have to talk to you because I dont have to" . How would you feel about that ? I bet , and I really bet that you would sue that same police dept . for not "doing something to prevent that " . Just my $.02

At that point the police would have cause to question him, as he fit the description of a felony suspect in the area.

[Guest nysos]

For the love of God , when you get stopped by a police officer , a deputy , a state trooper ( we dont have "cops" in the area I live in in Tn ) , or any other type of Law Enforcement person , just use common sense and show them that you are who you say you are . Come on people , Police have a hard enough job as it is . This guy , like a lot , was there to stir up ***** . If I ever get stopped I just tell them like it is and who I am . People like this guy in the video are just buttholes looking for drama . I always cover my gun when in public , but if the wind gets up and blows my shirt open and a police officer sees it , and he asked me for a permit , then I will show him with no problem . I can not stand idiots like this guy looking for drama .

Take the exact same situation, but remove the firearm from the equation. Do you believe you have to show the police officer your ID then? Just walking down the street minding your own business and the crazy lady across the street thought you looked suspicious so she called 911 on you. Firearm or not is completely irrelevant, he was not doing anything illegal - the police have no reason to be able to demand your ID if you have done nothing wrong, and so it is written in law.

I don't mean to call you an anti person, but your mindset is pretty much saying "because he is carrying he needs to just go along with what the police say to make things easier". Some people believe it is better to uphold your own rights than to take the easy route, because before you know it the easy route might become to mandatory route.

Edited October 4, 2011 by nysos

[Pain103]

If you carrying your firearm and you are a HCP holder you must present it to any LEO who asks to see it. No, an LEO can't just walk up and demand ID for no reason they need reasonable suspicion not "probably cause" which I assume you meant probable cause. Probable cause would be the level of needed for a search which is higher than reasonable suspicion. That is TN only I don't work it any other state so I can't comment on what they do.

Now operating a motor vehicle yes you are mandated by law to have in your possession a driver's license. If you fail to have this you can be cited and even arrested but typically at most it is charged as a traffic offense on a traffic citation. THP is the only agency granted the power by statute to stop and inspect for a driver's license. I haven't heard of any of them doing this in a long time but maybe it happens in other parts of the state.

[Guest nysos]

If you carrying your firearm and you are a HCP holder you must present it to any LEO who asks to see it.

I don't believe this is correct. TN is a "must inform" state, meaning if you are stopped for a traffic stop, or walking down the street by law enforcement by actually doing something else wrong (jay walking, speeding, whatever), you are required to inform them you are carrying. Due to it being a stop in which you did something wrong, yes you are required to provide ID as well. Just walking down the street with a gun on his hip in a holster? No grounds to demand ID.