OC may have prevented a crime

[mikegideon]

And it's the same argument over and over and over again. Just think, if TGO had it's own sub-forum dedicated to it. It could be non-stop OC arguing 24/7 with nothing new to say about it.

There is ALWAYS an active thread about it. As soon as one dies, somebody starts another. I suppose it has done some good, though. There are times when I might open carry now, as long as I think it won't cause a scene. I still don't think I'll ever open carry just to make a statement, or just to exercise my "rights".

[Erik88]

Eric88, got a link to the original article?

my bad, I thought I posted it. OC may have prevented a crime/LEO encounter.

[TGO David]

be careful someone may try to validate the authenticity of this post.

Not unless your name is Azmat.

[Guest biohazardmatthew]

I OC every time I'm out, its not for intimidation or attention its because I'm a big Guy and concealing my glock 23 is not fun at all. It is one of the most uncomfortable things to me. Also before someone says hey just buy a new gun all I can say is I wish I had that kind of money throw around. My point here is to the people that bash open carry. 95% of people don't notice it the ones that do don't seem to mind. I've even passed numerous oficees that don't give me a second look.

Letting an untucked t-shirt hang over your holster is the most uncomfortable thing? Feels normal to me...

[Guest bkelm18]

Letting an untucked t-shirt hang over your holster is the most uncomfortable thing? Feels normal to me...

+1

I'm a big guy as well and often carry a G23 IWB and it rides very comfortably. It's all about the holster.

[Guest biohazardmatthew]

+1

I'm a big guy as well and often carry a G23 IWB and it rides very comfortably. It's all about the holster.

I always carry OWB and just let a shirt cover it up. That has always worked best for me. If I need my shirt tucked in I carry a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster instead. I say Glock 23 and Ruger LCP compliment each other perfectly. I am able to carry concealed 100% of the time.

[moonshinegrrl]

I think we should all eligible people should be allowed to OC everywhere just like the old west, that way the ones not carrying are felons or anti gun

[HOLEPUNCHER]

I don't think it's an argument of whether OC can deter criminal behavior. Clearly, the academic research shows that nothing deters a crime quite like the fear that a potential victim is armed. This is why most residential burglaries happen in the daytime; potential burglars know that is when the home will be unoccupied and many note the threat posed by armed home-owners as their main reason for waiting until the target residence is empty.

That said, the argument for most is whether the deterrent value of OC is worth the negatives associated with it coming from a society that is not friendly to OC. I also get the argument that attitudes won't change unless people OC and demonstrate that it's no different than carrying a cell phone. However, this argument assumes that people are rational and objective, which they aren't. There are far more negative media stories surrounding OC than positive ones, and that shapes public perception. There are far too many who flaunt their OC to make a political statement, which doesn't help the argument (having a bunch of folks meet up to open carry at a Starbucks isn't any better than environmentalists chaining themselves to trees and does more to alienate people than win them over). The unfortunate stigma in our society is that gun owners are potentially dangerous and those non-LEOs who dare OC are even more dangerous because they have their weapon at the ready and want to intimidate others by making it known. Like I've said over and over here, there is a reason that many police departments discourage or prohibit their LEOs from OC while off-duty. This is that reason. They know the public will flip out and will result in more headaches than it's worth.

I will also say that having been a LEO for 10 years, I feel confident in saying that I do not feel as if I am at any particular tactical disadvantage when I carry concealed. Yes, as a uniformed patrol officer I open carried in a duty holster, but it had to be a level 3 security holster, I was clearly identifiable as a police officer, and my job was to actively seek out and engage bad guys, some of whom were more than anxious to kill me. As a private citizen, I am not in that sort of situation, and the low profile is the tactical advantage that I am looking for. Undercover cops don't open carry and tell bad guys that "I am exercising my 2nd amendment rights and feel that as an armed citizen open carry gives me a tactical advantage." They conceal because they know that there is a great tactical advantage to not drawing attention to yourself. The advantage that keeping a low profile gives more than makes up for any slight delay in accessing a concealed firearm, and if you properly conceal and practice with your carry setup, you should be more than able to access that firearm quickly. If you can't, then you probably need to rethink your setup or practice more (just as a cop who OCs needs to practice with their duty holster).

I've open carried more in my previous life as a cop than most people do in a lifetime, and I promise there is nothing mystical or magical about it. It's a pain in the butt. Your gun gets dinged up/dirty/wet, everyone looks at it, bad guys try to dream up ways to take it from you, and people want to ask you questions about why you carry, whether you think it makes you a tough guy, or if you've ever shot someone. I've even had people question whether I could carry it on a college campus when I was a grad student taking classes in uniform on-duty. It's just not worth what questionably marginal level of tactical advantage it may give (and I strongly believe there is little to no tactical advantage to it assuming you conceal in a proper and well-thought manner).

I wish it was a different world where we could OC if we wanted to, just because we want to, but it ain't that sort of world. I would like to be able to show off my cool pistol in a cool holster so other gun folks could appreciate it just like car aficionados appreciate seeing a nice looking classic Camero or Mustang. I really don't see this happening anytime in the near future as long as we have a mass media that portrays gun ownership in such a negative way and OC activists who decide to walk down a city street with an AK-47 just to make a political point.

Thanks for your response,

[Guest Victor9er]

There's a debate like this in EVERY industry.... for guns it's OC vs CC.

Photography it's Canon vs Nikon

Fast food it's McDonalds vs Burger King

Soft drinks its Coke vs Pepsi

Cars its Ford vs Chevy

Computers its Mac vs PC

Phones its iPhone vs Droid

Games its Playstation vs XBox

Online its Facebook vs Twitter

Comics its Marvel vs DC

Star Wars vs Star Trek

Red vs Blue

Paper vs Plastic

the list goes on.... it's an endless debate because there is no right or wrong choice for everybody.

[TMF]

In the spirit of the OP, I don't think it's ever a question whether or not OC is a deterrent. Obviously it works as a deterrent in the same way that a security system sign in my front yard keeps away burglars. I think the deterrent factor is independent of the CC vs OC debate since not everyone carries for the purpose of being a deterrent to crime.

Edited October 1, 2011 by TMF 18B

[Guest kirkosaurus]

the argument for most is whether the deterrent value of OC is worth the negatives associated with it coming from a society that is not friendly to OC. I also get the argument that attitudes won't change unless people OC and demonstrate that it's no different than carrying a cell phone. However, this argument assumes that people are rational and objective, which they aren't. There are far more negative media stories surrounding OC than positive ones

Really? Where are all these negative media stories? Maybe you think this way because you don't see the thousands of times people OC EVERYDAY and NOTHING happens? 43 states have some kind of open carry. People OC all the time and NOTHING HAPPENS. How does that compare to the very few stories of someone OC'ing and someone freaking out?

[Guest kirkosaurus]

I don't think it's an argument of whether OC can deter criminal behavior. Clearly, the academic research shows that nothing deters a crime quite like the fear that a potential victim is armed.

yes, this is an argument. There have been a number of people lately posting on this forum that say there is NO reason to EVER open carry. Just look at the latest OC threads.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

There's a debate like this in EVERY industry.... for guns it's OC vs CC.

Photography it's Canon vs Nikon

Fast food it's McDonalds vs Burger King

Soft drinks its Coke vs Pepsi

Cars its Ford vs Chevy

Computers its Mac vs PC

Phones its iPhone vs Droid

Games its Playstation vs XBox

Online its Facebook vs Twitter

Comics its Marvel vs DC

Star Wars vs Star Trek

Red vs Blue

Paper vs Plastic

the list goes on.... it's an endless debate because there is no right or wrong choice for everybody.

It's not a debate of either/or. The debate is whether there is any advantage to OC. There is always a time to OC and a time to CC. The problem is those that say there is NEVER a time to OC.

[TMF]

It's not a debate of either/or. The debate is whether there is any advantage to OC. There is always a time to OC and a time to CC. The problem is those that say there is NEVER a time to OC.

Man, I just don't see what the hubbub is about all this. I think most reasonable people can agree that we are all cool if someone is OC'ing. I think what bothers people are the ones that do it just to cause a stir, such as OC'ing at times that aren't appropriate. For example, I didn't see a gunbuster at the Chuck E Cheese the other day, but I bet if I walked in there with a pistol on my side for all to see it would probably be on the news. Would I be within my rights? Yeah, but I wouldn't have a lot of common sense. I think that's where so-called "anti-OC'ers" get into these sorta debates. I don't OC, but it's not because I'm against it, I just don't want people to know I'm armed. It seems that the OC regulars don't mind that, and that is their business. I just don't see why this is something that people get their panties in a bunch about one way or the other.

[ttocswob]

There are far more negative media stories surrounding OC about anything than positive ones.

FYP