OC may have prevented a crime

[Erik88]

In light of recent posts here on TGO by members who claim that open carry could never ever be a deterrent I thought I would share this with you.

and my favorite response

Because, as we all know from reading the sage pronouncements of the armchair experts on the Internet, anyone open carrying at the scene of a robbery will be instantly cut down by the robbers on a hail of mini-Uzi fire and left to die a horrible death with his gun still in the holster.

Well here is what happened to me last night:

I went over to Youngstown Ohio around ten to take advantage of the lower gas prices. As I stepped out to insert my card, a car with three black males in their early 20s pulled up in a late model buick regal. Not to be stereotypical, but they were all dressed in typical banger attire, with one exception that really stood out to me: each one wore a black hat that was facing the right way and pulled down low. This struck me as odd. One went into the store and walked around and appeared to be looking at everything and nothing at the same time. I saw the guy inside throw a thumbs up to the guys outside. One guy got in the driver seat and started the car. The other guy started to walk toward the store entrance, walking about 5 feet away from me. As he walked by I saw him glance at me. I was turned strong side facing him.

What happened next, to my mind, can only be attributed to the fact that I was OC.

As he drew parallel to me, he looked at me, looked at my firearm, looked at me again and stopped. He stared at me for about 5 seconds (I think) and I kinda stared back. He turned around and went back to the car, getting in the passenger seat. He got his cell phone, and ten seconds later the guy in the store came walking out. He looked at me as he passed by but didn't say anything. He got in the car and they left.

I went into the store to talk to the clerk, a very nice Arab fellow. He knows me, as I OC there frequently.

Azmat: I think those guys were rob me.

Me: I agree.

Azmat: You scare them off?

Me: I didn't say a word to them.

Azmat: Your gun scare them off.

Me: Perhaps. You should call the police and report this.

Azmat: Yes, I will. You stay and talk to them too?

Me: Sure.

He called the police and ten minutes later they arrived. I was standing outside with Azmat.

Officer 1: That's going to stay in its holster, right?

Me: It typically does unless I tell it otherwise.

Officer 2: Ok no problem, youre not gonna see any Canton PD **** out of us.

Me: It's nice to see that some of the good guys really ARE good guys.

Officer 2: Yeah, so what happened?

We told them the story, and Azmat showed them the tape.

Officer 1: They were definately going to hit the place. However since no crime was actually committed, the best we can do is look for them and see if we hit anything when we pull them over. You guys did great.

Officer 2 (to me): You should submit this to the NRA armed citizen column. We can corroborate your story.

Me: Thanks, I may do that. You guys be extra safe going after these losers.

Both of them: Will do, you guys have a good night.

That was a very interesting night for me. Nobody got hurt, and I met some really good officers.

[trblmkr13]

nice post

[Mike.357]

coincidence.

[Erik88]

coincidence.

LMAO...aren't you just the starter!

[Guest Jon]

be careful someone may try to validate the authenticity of this post.

[Erik88]

be careful someone may try to validate the authenticity of this post.

ya know, I will say that your posts do seem far fetched but if they are true then more power to ya!

I admire your sense of humor though!

[Guest capt usa]

I could see that happening because most robbers only want to prey on the weak and run at the first hint of resistance (which is a good thing).

[Guest Jon]

ya know, I will say that your posts do seem far fetched but if they are true then more power to ya!

I admire your sense of humor though!

haha reading through some of the posts that was qouted I noticed most were "what if" or "what would you do" type things. There was only a handful of actual events.

But like I said people can believe any of it or none of it. I know where I stand so the only thing left is to poke fun at it lol why not.

on another note I could see a situation playing out like the one you posted. It's exactly what I hope could happen and why I OC.

[Guest JeremyD901]

I OC every time I'm out, its not for intimidation or attention its because I'm a big Guy and concealing my glock 23 is not fun at all. It is one of the most uncomfortable things to me. Also before someone says hey just buy a new gun all I can say is I wish I had that kind of money throw around. My point here is to the people that bash open carry. 95% of people don't notice it the ones that do don't seem to mind. I've even passed numerous oficees that don't give me a second look.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I've started to open carry more recently. Well actually what I usually do is open carry when I am out in public like in a parking lot or on the street, but when I go into a building I usually pull my shirt down over my gun. I feel like open carrying in a store would draw attention to myself & I'm not really looking for that.

[Il Duce]

When I was a cop I would have arrested him for a public threat I would have you know when I was a cop.

[ProjectDexter]

Spent many of days in Youngstown, seemed like there was someone ready to rob you around every street corner. Hopefully Azmat has a plan A B and C if a similar situation comes round again.

[DMark]

When I was a cop I would have arrested him for a public threat I would have you know when I was a cop.

Did you get your POST in Tennessee?

[56FordGuy]

When I was a cop I would have arrested him for a public threat I would have you know when I was a cop.

I'm laughing. I'm laughing harder than I have in a while. lol

Awesome. Quicker to think of it than I was. +1, good sir.

[Sandman]

I've never open carried...maybe one day I will do it.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I work at a car dealership...so OC is not an option. My Dad and I own the place but I don't wanna scare off customers that arent gun friendly "buy the car or I will shoot". I do always carry though...and I have quite a few customers open carry on the lot. Normally the ones that do are extremely small guys or "cowboys" so to me its an intimidation mindset...im not saying all people that Open Carry feel a need to project power, but the one's I run across typically fit that description. I do think however you did prevent a crime without bloodshed which it probably would have came too had you not been spotted carrying so kudo's to you. I will relate a quick story...one time I was at my local credit union on 17th at 9pm depositing my check and i just happened to turn around to find a young punk two handing a skateboard not 15 feet from me who immediately stopped in his tracks when I wheeled around placed my hand on my 1911 (at the time a Dan Wesson Cbob) that was concealed to him until that moment....needless to say he backpedal'd and took off....would he still have approached had he seen that shiny man-killer first (ala open carry)...I don't know...but im glad I was packing either way.

[Guest Broomhead]

I'll play. I used to OC occasionally, for comfort reasons, but I normally don't anymore.

About a month ago now, I was at Walgreens with my wife and two girls, 7 and almost 2. As we were walking out the door, I was about 10 feet behind them, because I was hurting extra bad and moving slow that day, my wife was carrying our youngest, purse over her shoulder, with the eldest holding her hand. As they walked towards the car, I noticed a man walking across the parking lot, grungy clothes, torn up, well used shoes, A look on his face that told me he could turn dangerous. When he saw them, he made a 90* course change and headed straight for them, he hadn't seen me yet and didn't know I was with them, but I definitely saw him and knew what was going through his head. I flipped my shirt up so my gun was visible, nothing overt, just a quick flip. I stared at him and walked into his line of sight, strong side towards him. He had been staring at my family intently, with even a single glance at anything else, up to this point. He stopped dead in his tracks, looked at me, my gun, my family, back to my gun, and turned 180* and walked the other direction with a new quickness in his step. Was he going to do something had I not been there? I don't know, but I felt he was at the time. Was it a coincidence and he just happened to realize that he was going the wrong way? Maybe, but I highly, highly doubt it. I did what I felt needed to be done at that split second. I was not threatening him in any way, it was more of a warning, like a dog raising his hackles. I am reminded nearly everyday, weekly at least, of why I decided to carry, and grateful that I made the right decision in doing so.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Broomhead

[East_TN_Patriot]

I don't think it's an argument of whether OC can deter criminal behavior. Clearly, the academic research shows that nothing deters a crime quite like the fear that a potential victim is armed. This is why most residential burglaries happen in the daytime; potential burglars know that is when the home will be unoccupied and many note the threat posed by armed home-owners as their main reason for waiting until the target residence is empty.

That said, the argument for most is whether the deterrent value of OC is worth the negatives associated with it coming from a society that is not friendly to OC. I also get the argument that attitudes won't change unless people OC and demonstrate that it's no different than carrying a cell phone. However, this argument assumes that people are rational and objective, which they aren't. There are far more negative media stories surrounding OC than positive ones, and that shapes public perception. There are far too many who flaunt their OC to make a political statement, which doesn't help the argument (having a bunch of folks meet up to open carry at a Starbucks isn't any better than environmentalists chaining themselves to trees and does more to alienate people than win them over). The unfortunate stigma in our society is that gun owners are potentially dangerous and those non-LEOs who dare OC are even more dangerous because they have their weapon at the ready and want to intimidate others by making it known. Like I've said over and over here, there is a reason that many police departments discourage or prohibit their LEOs from OC while off-duty. This is that reason. They know the public will flip out and will result in more headaches than it's worth.

I will also say that having been a LEO for 10 years, I feel confident in saying that I do not feel as if I am at any particular tactical disadvantage when I carry concealed. Yes, as a uniformed patrol officer I open carried in a duty holster, but it had to be a level 3 security holster, I was clearly identifiable as a police officer, and my job was to actively seek out and engage bad guys, some of whom were more than anxious to kill me. As a private citizen, I am not in that sort of situation, and the low profile is the tactical advantage that I am looking for. Undercover cops don't open carry and tell bad guys that "I am exercising my 2nd amendment rights and feel that as an armed citizen open carry gives me a tactical advantage." They conceal because they know that there is a great tactical advantage to not drawing attention to yourself. The advantage that keeping a low profile gives more than makes up for any slight delay in accessing a concealed firearm, and if you properly conceal and practice with your carry setup, you should be more than able to access that firearm quickly. If you can't, then you probably need to rethink your setup or practice more (just as a cop who OCs needs to practice with their duty holster).

I've open carried more in my previous life as a cop than most people do in a lifetime, and I promise there is nothing mystical or magical about it. It's a pain in the butt. Your gun gets dinged up/dirty/wet, everyone looks at it, bad guys try to dream up ways to take it from you, and people want to ask you questions about why you carry, whether you think it makes you a tough guy, or if you've ever shot someone. I've even had people question whether I could carry it on a college campus when I was a grad student taking classes in uniform on-duty. It's just not worth what questionably marginal level of tactical advantage it may give (and I strongly believe there is little to no tactical advantage to it assuming you conceal in a proper and well-thought manner).

I wish it was a different world where we could OC if we wanted to, just because we want to, but it ain't that sort of world. I would like to be able to show off my cool pistol in a cool holster so other gun folks could appreciate it just like car aficionados appreciate seeing a nice looking classic Camero or Mustang. I really don't see this happening anytime in the near future as long as we have a mass media that portrays gun ownership in such a negative way and OC activists who decide to walk down a city street with an AK-47 just to make a political point.

Edited September 30, 2011 by East_TN_Patriot

[mikegideon]

In light of recent posts here on TGO by members who claim that open carry could never ever be a deterrent I thought I would share this with you.

and my favorite response

Not sure I recall anybody saying that OC could never ever be a deterrent. A lot of folks believe that CC gives you an advantage. Personally, I think it depends on the situation. There are positive outcomes from open carry all the time. Then again, there are those times when some sheeple goes like this . Some folks believe that a screaming sheeple ain't a positive outcome.

[Guest bkelm18]

Here we go again...

[Erik88]

Not sure I recall anybody saying that OC could never ever be a deterrent.

you must not have read the other thread very closely....

[mikegideon]

you must not have read the other thread very closely....

Which one? There as been at least 30 .

[Guest HvyMtl]

Eric88, got a link to the original article?

[East_TN_Patriot]

Which one? There as been at least 30 .

And it's the same argument over and over and over again. Just think, if TGO had it's own sub-forum dedicated to it. It could be non-stop OC arguing 24/7 with nothing new to say about it.

[LagerHead]

coincidence.

LMAO...aren't you just the starter!

be careful someone may try to validate the authenticity of this post.

Ok, this little exchange had me horse laughing. Hi-frickin-larious I tell ya.

Which one? There as been at least 30 .

This week.