Really cheap knives... for scouts

[Guest lostpass]

If you go to Wal Mart you can find a folding knife for a buck. At least if you go to the turkey creek wal mart and look in the camping section anyway. Your wal mart may vary.

I am marginally involved with scouting so I was thinking about picking up some of these cheap knives for the kids in the den. They have to carve soap or something to get a whittling chip. Can anyone think of a legit reason to avoid these cheap ass knives that the kids are going to lose and abuse anyway?

My worries are all about safety. Can anyone think of a reason to avoid a cheap knife for safety reasons? They are basic lock back folders not all that different from a gerber or something.

Thanks

[MacGyver]

Your first knife is a special thing. I've got the Swiss Army knife my grandfather gave me for my 8th birthday to this day.

I don't know that I really have a firm opinion one way or another as to what you should do, but I know that I cherished my first knife. I used it all the way through scouting. I carried it all the way through school, and had it in my pocket the day I got my Eagle Scout.

The one thing I would consider in your case is that kids (and adults too) get cut a lot worse by cheap knives that dull quickly than they do with good quality sharp ones. You have to work a lot harder with a dull knife, and then due to poor handling, when it contacts flesh, it does a lot more damage. I know they're carving soap now, but they'll soon progress beyond that.

I decided a long time ago that if I planned to use something more than once that I would get the best I could afford. I've never been disappointed by that. Not that this maxim really applies to your situation, but you can get a lot better knife for not much more money.

[Guest lostpass]

Your first knife is a special thing. I've got the Swiss Army knife my grandfather gave me for my 8th birthday to this day.

I don't know that I really have a firm opinion one way or another as to what you should do, but I know that I cherished my first knife. I used it all the way through scouting. I carried it all the way through school, and had it in my pocket the day I got my Eagle Scout.

The one thing I would consider in your case is that kids (and adults too) get cut a lot worse by cheap knives that dull quickly than they do with good quality sharp ones. You have to work a lot harder with a dull knife, and then due to poor handling, when it contacts flesh, it does a lot more damage. I know they're carving soap now, but they'll soon progress beyond that.

I decided a long time ago that if I planned to use something more than once that I would get the best I could afford. I've never been disappointed by that. Not that this maxim really applies to your situation, but you can get a lot better knife for not much more money.

You make a good argument. I too cherished my first knife. Mostly because I used it to kill a man. Just kidding, I got it from my grandfather and it meant a lot to me just because it was a knife he gave me, cause he didn't want it.

This is something I really need to think about, I don't want to rob the kids of that special thing. I got a bench made activator 211 to give my kid from Caveman so he could have a good first knife.

Maybe I could pass out knives and de emphasize them somehow. Or I could just make them give them back. Then I could put all the cheap knives in a pillowcase and use them to beat the crap outta my kid! Or, you know, whatever.

[MacGyver]

If they're just using them to carve soap to get their whittling chip, I'd likely have a good conversation on knife safety, pass them out, and then take them back up. I might also mention to the parents in the den what you're doing, so that if they want to get their kid that special knife, this might be a good time to do it.

[MacGyver]

btw...I don't know many kids who can say their first knife was a Benchmade. Lucky kid.

And, if you can teach him to sharpen D2, he'll be able to sharpen anything.

Edited September 26, 2011 by MacGyver

[Guest lostpass]

btw...I don't know many kids who can say their first knife was a Benchmade. Lucky kid.

And, if you can teach him to sharpen D2, he'll be able to sharpen anything.

He is lucky, he works hard but more importantly Caveman gave me a nice deal on the knife. I think I misspoke when I said his first knife. He has a chef's knife from target which is the only knife he'll use when I get him to to make food. So I should've sad his first camp knife.

He treasures the chef's knife so much that I didn't feel bad about getting him the benchmade. The chef's knife is for crap but for him it is a big deal. Teaching him to sharpen it will be tough, there is a level of patience there that I am not sure he has.

[Mike]

Your first knife is a special thing. I've got the Swiss Army knife my grandfather gave me for my 8th birthday to this day.

I don't know that I really have a firm opinion one way or another as to what you should do, but I know that I cherished my first knife. I used it all the way through scouting. I carried it all the way through school, and had it in my pocket the day I got my Eagle Scout.

The one thing I would consider in your case is that kids (and adults too) get cut a lot worse by cheap knives that dull quickly than they do with good quality sharp ones. You have to work a lot harder with a dull knife, and then due to poor handling, when it contacts flesh, it does a lot more damage. I know they're carving soap now, but they'll soon progress beyond that.

I decided a long time ago that if I planned to use something more than once that I would get the best I could afford. I've never been disappointed by that. Not that this maxim really applies to your situation, but you can get a lot better knife for not much more money.

I second this. I have my first knife my grandad gave me. It was a simple fixed blade. Edge brand #489. I plan on passing it along to my children someday.

Mike

[Guest lostpass]

Okay, you guys win. You're right, the first knife should be special. I am abandoning the plans. A knife is more than just a bit of iron, it is responsibility and all that. Thanks for saving from a mistake.

[MacGyver]

It will be a few years yet before my son is old enough to be in scouts, but I know some things have changed since I was a kid. Today's dens and troops have a lot of kids whose parents never get outdoors and will not naturally pass these skills down to their sons (or daughters).

I would definitely take the opportunity to send something home with the kids letting the parents know what you're doing with the whittling chip, and the fact that you're talking about knife safety. Hopefully for some of them, this won't be the first time they've heard it, but for some of the kids, it certainly will be. When you have the advancement ceremony where you present the chips, really praise the kids to their parents. That may be the stimulus some parents need to continue a conversation they wouldn't have had otherwise with their kid. And, it may prompt some of them to get their kid that first knife!

I've been in situations twice in the last month where I've watched adults who weren't raised in scouting use an axe. Their handling skills were downright dangerous. I've used both situations as teaching opportunities, and both times the participants said that they wished someone had taught them this stuff as a kid.

You can really make a lifelong difference in a kid's life as a Scoutmaster. Nice work!

[hso]

Can anyone think of a legit reason to avoid these cheap ass knives that the kids are going to lose and abuse anyway?

The quality is so low that their safety is questionable and you're feeding the crap knife industry.

Better that a set of inexpensive carving knives be purchased for the Den and let the kids take turns instead of marking them with the shame of having a cheap Chinese piece of junk for their first knife.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Something else is some parents might not have liked their kids being given a knife, any knife and without regard from who.

I would treat it like I did with the kids that came over to our house. For anything out of the ordinary I had to get the permission of the kid's parent(s). Like if they wanted to shoot I would always have to call their parents first to make sure it was ok. I also explain to them I would be right next to their child giving instructions. If any of my son's friends couldn't then my son wouldn't want to shoot.

Dolomite

[zapfbroad]

Would definitely second/third the importance of 1st knife. My swiss army given by my godparents when I was 7 is one of my most prized possessions. I also lament the whole some parents won't want their kids to have one unfortunately. I would focus on getting a decent set for onsite work along with lots of instruction regarding safety. I might go so far as to do some one on one questioning of parents and tell em you'd like to give each scout a swiss army knife for christmas & find out if there are any objections.. maybe you can find areally cool substitute for those kids.. neat compass or good flashlight..maybe a bladeless multi-tool then they won't feel left out. Good job sir, thanks for leading another generation.

via EPIC4G SRF1.1.0 by Android Creative Syndicate

[daddyo]

Lostpass, as a former scouter and father of an Eagle Scout, I would encourage you to step up your involvement from "marginal". You seem to have a heart for scouting, and if your unit is like the ones we were in, there is a shortage of committed adults. Without knowing the specific situation, I can safely say that they need you, and you will never be sorry for the time you invest in helping young boys become men.

I miss my days as a Scouter.

[willis68]

I think that you should speak with the parents, give them the opportunity to buy their child their first knife. As many have said on this thread that will become an important knife to a child and I think that it should last. My first knife given to me by my dad was a Buck 110 and I loved that knife. I am in no way suggesting getting them a 110, but you can do much better for not much more money

Either way while it is a nice jester from you please do not buy them those knives as I guarantee you they will not last if used and that could be a huge disappointment to a scout

How many Scouts are we talking about here?

Edited September 26, 2011 by willis68

[Mike.357]

Cubs use popsycle sticks to carve soap.

Whitling wood does not happen until they are Bears.

Better to get a quality knife that will hold an edge. I opted to get my grandson a cub scout knife from the scout store. Hopefully he will never lose it and someday will pass it on to his son.

[Guest lostpass]

Cubs use popsycle sticks to carve soap.

Whitling wood does not happen until they are Bears.

Better to get a quality knife that will hold an edge. I opted to get my grandson a cub scout knife from the scout store. Hopefully he will never lose it and someday will pass it on to his son.

Every kid from tiger cub to webelos II is a cub scout. They aren't really scouts until they do that crossing ceremony at the blue and gold dinner.

In response to willis68:

That pass around knife thing was really cool. The end was also tremendous.

On the scout thing, I think we have around 25 signed up. A lot less actually show up to the den meetings. It is a big den by my reckoning. They tell me that about half will drop out sooner or later. I have no idea about the accuracy of this statement.

I'm trying to get more involved. Ideally, I would like to send them home with something after every meeting. I think in our next meeting I am going to do the rope thing. I checked into it and I can get rope for 5 cents a foot. I figure I can teach a few knots, how to whip ends and send every kid home with a 25 foot rope for around 40 bucks total.

Scouting is not my thing. I hate camping and so forth but my kid really enjoys scouting and, I swear, it seems like the kids take it seriously so I'm trying to go all in. Cause maybe some things are more important than my comfort. Plus there are a few kids who just get "dropped off" Like the parents don't care too much. If I could influence those kids, well, that would be worth it.

[MacGyver]

I'm trying to get more involved. Ideally, I would like to send them home with something after every meeting. I think in our next meeting I am going to do the rope thing. I checked into it and I can get rope for 5 cents a foot. I figure I can teach a few knots, how to whip ends and send every kid home with a 25 foot rope for around 40 bucks total.

Scouting is not my thing. I hate camping and so forth but my kid really enjoys scouting and, I swear, it seems like the kids take it seriously so I'm trying to go all in. Cause maybe some things are more important than my comfort. Plus there are a few kids who just get "dropped off" Like the parents don't care too much. If I could influence those kids, well, that would be worth it.

I cannot encourage you enough. You have no idea now how much of an influence you may be to a kid.

My dad was an assistant scoutmaster, went camping with us every month and just made himself available. Twenty five years later, I have friends and former troop mates that I don't really stay in close contact with, but who still call my dad regularly just to say hey or ask his advice.

Despite the flack they get in today's overly pansified world, scout troops - properly run let boys grow into leaders by working through problems on their own. The scoutmasters should really be there to serve as a good role model, to teach, offer advice when solicited, and make sure they don't kill themselves in the process. If you really look at those qualities, you realize how rare those traits are in today's world.

Good work! Stay involved. As Gerald Ford used to say, "Boy, do we need scouting."

[Mike.357]

Every kid from tiger cub to webelos II is a cub scout. They aren't really scouts until they do that crossing ceremony at the blue and gold dinner.

They are all scouts, from the moment they sign up. The crossing ceremony is when they go from the pack to the troop ( become boy scouts.) Knife handling is not allowed until they reach Bear class. Though some Dens will cheat and do it early. Our pack had one den do it as wolves and one kid cut the crap out of himself. Thankfully it did not happen during a den or pack event nor was he seriously hurt.

[Guest lostpass]

They are all scouts, from the moment they sign up. The crossing ceremony is when they go from the pack to the troop ( become boy scouts.) Knife handling is not allowed until they reach Bear class. Though some Dens will cheat and do it early. Our pack had one den do it as wolves and one kid cut the crap out of himself. Thankfully it did not happen during a den or pack event nor was he seriously hurt.

You're right, they are all scouts but not boy scouts until the ceremony.

I'm actually pretty worried about the whittling chip, I'm pretty sure someone is going to get cut. But they are bears and it is in the handbook. And the kids surprise me often by how much they can actually do so I suppose my concern is unwarranted.

[analog_kidd]

I like willis68's idea above where you ask the parents to get them their first knife. It might be a great opportunity for someone to do the passing of an old family knife on to a kid. Or it could be a cool experience for a parent or grandparent to buy and give the kid his first knife. For the kids who's parents don't take the opportunity, you can loan their kid a knife, or let them carve the soap with a butterknife from your kitchen. Regardless, it will be an outstanding opportunity to teach a bunch of young men about knife safety.

[Mike.357]

Aahhhhhhhhh they carve soap with popsycle sticks

[gregintenn]

I wasn't a leader, but I got elected to head up the whittling chit thing when my oldest was in cub scouts. I first had a discussion with the parents. I then bought some inexpensive knives like you'd asked about. I also bought a box of band aids. They came in handy. All the kids were thrilled with the knives, and aside from one cut finger, it all went very well.

[daddyo]

Cutting your finger goes along with using a knife, and is also part of being a boy. As I type this, I have no less than four knife cuts to my fingers, because I love to play with my knives too much!!!

[Guest bkelm18]

My first knife was a single blade Swiss Army folder. I think it's still around here somewhere. If I'm not mistaken, it came from a Boy Scout catalog of some sort.

[Moped]

I got my Scout Master Certification back in March. It's a great program. As for buying your Cubs cheap knifes to carve soap with, I'd talk to the parents first, prior to rushing out and purchasing cheap knives. Once you get their buy in, then go buy inexpensive knives, not cheap ones. A good first knife for a Cub or a Boy Scout is an Opinel. I really like these.

Opinel No 8 Carbon Steel folding knife, Opinel Carbon Knives

They are 1095 carbon steel (you can also get them in stainless if you want) and are a locking blade. This is what my son uses as his pocket knife in Boy Scouts. And at $11 a piece, they are a fantastic deal! Careful about buying knives at the Scout Shop. Some of them are dangerous in my opinion. We had a Scout fold a lock back up on his thumb back in he spring. (He was doing something he wasn't supposed to, with it and the lock gave. He got to make a trip to the hospital. It came form the Scout Shop. I think it was a Fury or some such. It looked like one any way.

Oh and the investment in bandaids is a smart idea! Good luck and Good Scouting!