Got a question for ya...

[Guest lostpass]

The TGOers know way more than I do about this stuff but people still ask me questions and expect me to know the answer.

An acquaintance of mine asked about banning open carry at his place of business. He doesn't want to go full gun busters because he doesn't care and because he doesn't want to scare people off (I'll cop to telling him that there is a sunset of people who avoid the no carry places like the plague). But he seems to be worried about John Wayne or someone walking into his business with a six shooter strapped to his hip.

I tried to explain it was rareish for people top open carry at all but that was no consolation. He would really like to ban open carriers from his place without also banishing concealed carriers.

I suspect this is possible, his place after all, but I know the follow up question is going to be how to do it.

[Guest bkelm18]

The TGOers know way more than I do about this stuff but people still ask me questions and expect me to know the answer.

An acquaintance of mine asked about banning open carry at his place of business. He doesn't want to go full gun busters because he doesn't care and because he doesn't want to scare people off (I'll cop to telling him that there is a sunset of people who avoid the no carry places like the plague). But he seems to be worried about John Wayne or someone walking into his business with a six shooter strapped to his hip.

I tried to explain it was rareish for people top open carry at all but that was no consolation. He would really like to ban open carriers from his place without also banishing concealed carriers.

I suspect this is possible, his place after all, but I know the follow up question is going to be how to do it.

Sure he can ban open carry. His posting won't carry the weight of the law though(if he cares about that) since the law does not distinguish between open or concealed when it comes to posting. I don't know a tactful way of saying it on a sign that wont frighten the sheeple though.

[LastRebel70]

Tell him to go to a Gander Mountain and look at their sign about checking guns, he would just have to word it different to say no open carrying.

[Oh Shoot]

"Legal concealed handgun carry permitted."

"No unconcealed handgun carry permitted."

"Licensed permit holder may carry only concealed handguns here."

"Carry your gun here so we can't see it."

"A whole paragraph of legal sounding verbiage to indicate the above."

No matter how he may want to word it, the only statutory compliant way to do it is as specified in 39-17-1359, which bans all handgun carry. Anything else is just a "request", and between alarming some customers and pissing off others, seems a no win for the owner, IMHO.

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

Sure he can ban open carry. His posting won't carry the weight of the law though(if he cares about that) since the law does not distinguish between open or concealed when it comes to posting. I don't know a tactful way of saying it on a sign that wont frighten the sheeple though.

I'll be honest, this isn't one of those think it through folks, this is a "I don't want X" kind of people. I suspect he'd rather feel, um, "protected" from open carriers more than anything else.

I'll paraphrase but the quote was something like this:

"It takes time to get a gun out, but if it is in a holster they could just start shooting"

I sincerely believe that he thinks that people will gravitate to his place for gunfights or something. It isn't that he isn't smart or anything, he just doesn't care to look into the issue.

[Guest lostpass]

Gander Mountain, good one. And of course Oh Shoot is right

[Guest clownsdd]

How 'bout "please keep your pants pulled up and your gun concealed"?

[zapfbroad]

ANY sign he puts up regarding guns will invite questions and discussion. If he doesn't want to talk about it and think through the possibilities and possibly have to defend his viewpoint he's best off not posting and just come to terms with the fact that the likelihood of two legally licensed HCP holders becoming involved in some wild west shootout is like 0.00482%. If there was to be a shootout involving an HCP holder the large probability would be that it would involve the defense of that individual, another customer or the staff themselves. And that the other person involved likely would Not be carrying the gun legally and with the intent of perpetuating a crime, so any sign he put on the door would do nothing to stop them from committing aforementioned crime with a gun. You haven't said what kind of business it is (restaurant, retail store, etc) but if he's concerned about scaring away wealthy customers let him know the easiest way to curtail open carry is expectation of customer apparel set by staff clothing, ambience, decor, etc. If I go to a high end restaurant I know they have certain dress code expectations (not requirements) and I would be less inclined to be so obvious about printing or possibility of visible carry. Sure plenty of wealthy people live as sheltered sheep with the assumption of safety and being exposed to the butt of a gun disrupts their harmony & reminds them that their money doesn't always buy protection because criminals are able to travel. On the flipside lots of wealthy people are quietly gun totin conservatives that are concerned about protecting what they have and understand they are targets for some. He may well alienate them by posting anything as well. Either way posting will present lost revenue for business. The percentage of customers that see postings & are reassured are small imho. Most non carriers ignore the meaning along with everything else regarding situational awareness.

via EPIC4G SRF1.1.0 by Android Creative Syndicate

[HOLEPUNCHER]

What type of business is it? Could te verbage include the nomenclature of the business, to bring a smile?

Maybe run test for several months and see what happens.

[Jonnin]

Another way to do it is to inform the employees on a new policy: ask anyone open carrying to leave using the following phrase: "our business is pro gun but open carry bothers some customers, so we are going to have to ask you to leave until you can conceal your weapon".

[DaveTN]

There isn’t a way (that I know of) to legally ban open carry while allowing concealed carry without having to confront the open carry customer.

I suspect if it ever became an issue (think Kwik) and the law was called, they may have the person leave, but might tell your friend to get off the fence and go one way or the other.

So… your friend isn’t worried about what other customers think he is worried that a person open carrying is more likely to start shooting than a person concealed carrying?

[Guest msparks]

Here is what I would put:

As to not scare the Sheeple please cover your Piece. Legally armed customers welcome

[Fallguy]

To sort of summarize all that has been said...

There is an AG Opinion (07-148 Question 7) that says an owner can regulate the method of carry on his property.

The only law prohibiting carry though is all or nothing 39-17-1359.

So a "No Open Carry" sign wouldn't carry any weight of law.

The owner would have to ask the person to leave and they refuse, then to OCer could be charged with trespassing. (Same AG Opinion above Questions 5 & 6) However he could do this without a sign posted.

A sign may prevent someone from OCing in his place...but unless this happens a lot, I agree with some that it may start more conversations or concerns than OCers it prevents and considering he would have to go through the same procedure with or without a sign....well it's up to him what to do.

[gregintenn]

Has he experienced a problem with open carry? Would this include LEOs as well as everyone else? If not, why not?

[mikegideon]

If it was my place, I would try some kind of "No Open Carry" sign first. It IS his place, and he gets to make the rules. Most likely, he will get the desired results. I would think that if he has to ask someone to leave for ANY reason (loud cursing, throwing mashed potatoes, scaring the sheeple with an exposed hogleg), the cops would come to his aid if the person didn't comply.

[DaveTN]

Would this include LEOs as well as everyone else? If not, why not?

Because cops are part of a “special Group†just like you are (assuming you have an HCP). However he may want to let one special group carry and one not. That’s how things work with “Special Groupsâ€.

Cops might even get a discount that you don’t get. Just like I get a discount because I have a C&R. I’m doubly special. See how that works?

[TMF]

I just don't see OC'ing that much when I'm out an about, so if this is like a restaurant or social gathering place I wouldn't put any sign up and just inform the customer to cover up on the rare occasions that someone is OC'ing. If it's as simple as putting a shirt tail over the weapon I don't see any reasonable HCP holder having an issue with that. Once again, everyone here is comfortable with other people exercising their TN HCP, but it's understandable that not everyone shares that comfort level. If the business owner believes that his customer base would be turned off by another patron OC'ing then it is within his best interest to adopt a policy of CC only.

[Guest lostpass]

thanks for all the advice folks! Plenty of good ideas there. It really is a pretty ridiculous situation, he's never seen an open carrier and he doesn't get much unannounced traffic. But he worries about this stuff for some reason. I think he mostly has heard about posting and thinks he needs to get on board one way or another. It is not a gathering place or anything. He's a professional who offers personal services. The people coming to his office have an appointment. (Think Dr/Lawyer/CPA type) I'm really not sure what got him worked up about this but he is. I'll pass along the suggestions.Thanks again.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

An acquaintance of mine asked about banning open carry at his place of business. He doesn't want to go full gun busters because he doesn't care and because he doesn't want to scare people off (I'll cop to telling him that there is a sunset of people who avoid the no carry places like the plague). But he seems to be worried about John Wayne or someone walking into his business with a six shooter strapped to his

Any chance you can reveal what business this is so I can add it to the list of businesses that I will never frequent? Does he know that John Wayne is dead?

[Guest lostpass]

Any chance you can reveal what business this is so I can add it to the list of businesses that I will never frequent? Does he know that John Wayne is dead?

He is aware John Wayne is dead. But he's seen the movies man and it could happen! Or something. The logic is convoluted. It's financial services and that is about all I can say. He also happens to be really good at the stuff he is really good at. But he obsesses over the stuff that shouldn't be a big deal.

Imagine, for a moment, this guy does accounting for a living. Imagine further that he is really good at it. A simple tax return might entail six calls trying to get you tax liability lowered. Which is great, that is level obsessiveness is what you are paying for, right? But it could also be a personality disorder. He might needlessly worry about guns, he might also refold the dish towels after you've already folded them at a dinner party.

If you ever meet him you'll know it right away and I doubt you'll mind his quirks when he is doing something for you. He's not a bad guy but he is strange.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

He is aware John Wayne is dead. But he's seen the movies man and it could happen!

Maybe you could convince him that real life is not like the movies?

[Guest lostpass]

Maybe you could convince him that real life is not like the movies?

That would be a hard thing to do. You know and I know know that life isn't like the movies. But from what I understand that is why we have some of the knife laws we do.

Hey, if everyone thought like me the world would be perfect. The reality of life is different.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

If I saw a sign in a business that said "No Open Carry Permitted" I would respect it & the owner & conceal my weapon. Of course it wouldnt have the force of law. If I wanted to be an ass & walk in open carrying anyways all they could do would be to ask me to leave. If I dont they could get me for trespassing.

I wish Tennessee would do away with the law where they can post anyways. Its silly.

[TMF]

If I saw a sign in a business that said "No Open Carry Permitted" I would respect it & the owner & conceal my weapon. Of course it wouldnt have the force of law. If I wanted to be an ass & walk in open carrying anyways all they could do would be to ask me to leave. If I dont they could get me for trespassing.

I wish Tennessee would do away with the law where they can post anyways. Its silly.

I don't think the law aspect of it should be what is the deciding factor in respecting the wishes of a business owner. Same as "No Shirt, No Shoes" policies. Just because you can't be arrested or have charges pressed against you, if a sign says "No Guns" then the business owner's wishes should be respected either by not carrying or by going elsewhere.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

If I saw a sign in a business that said "No Open Carry Permitted" I would respect it & the owner & conceal my weapon.

If I saw that same sign I would assume the business is anti-gun and take my business elsewhere.

I wish Tennessee would do away with the law where they can post anyways. Its silly.

I wouldn't say it should be against the law to allow a business to post but I do agree with getting rid of any penalties for carrying past a sign.