The possible end to the ATF

[Mad_Squirrell]

The possible end to the ATF <----- link to article here

The stonewalling has to stop — but it appears the Department of Justice would rather abolish the ATF than answer questions. Not that the evaporation of a government agency in general seems all that problematic to me — but it’s imperative that Issa and Grassley arrive at answers before everyone who knew anything — and who can confirm Eric Holder knew about the program, too — is out of office.

While the end of the ATF which is wrought with corruption from Waco,TX to the Fast and Furious operation/scandal needs to be removed or reduced in their role . It scares me to think what agency or who would be in control of regulation of small arms especially in this political climate . It's bad enough that we have an enemy within so to speak on our 2nd amendment rights . It's even worse if we can't see and watchdog the enemy.

[MphsTiger1981]

I think abolishing the ATF would in fact be a good start. Then the EPA, the Department of Education, Homeland Security, FDA,FCC,.....

[DaveTN]

No need for concern. The ATF has about as much chance of being disbanded as the IRS.

Mexico’s attorney general also said the U.S. has not apologized for the violence inflicted by guns smuggled into Mexico under the watch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in the secret program based out of the ATF’s field office in Arizona. Morales characterized the operation’s main tactic, letting guns “walk†into Mexico, if, she said, that is what actually happened, as a potential “betrayal.â€

I’m tired of the whining from Mexican officials and their bad mouthing of the U.S.

Screw them; they allow the cartels and corrupt Police agencies the freedom to do whatever they like.

Apologies? You have got to be kidding me. Has the Mexican government apologized, or more importantly done anything to stop criminals who “walk†across the border that present a danger to the American people? No they haven’t; because they just don’t care.

Maybe I’m alone on this, but drugs are lost on undercover operations, I just don’t care that some guns got lost.

I feel bad that a Border Patrol Agent got killed. But I am not naïve enough to believe that the gunman would not have had a gun if it had not been for this OP. And we still don’t know that the weapon was one that was allowed to be illegally purchased.

It’s a good opportunity for some folks to attack a government agency, and some politicians can get up and make some noise. It’ll grab some headlines for a while, and maybe cause some people to be replaced; but other than that it’s a non-issue.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Problem with abolishing the ATF is it would be replaced. But the new organization would probably be replaced with a less freindly version.

I know everybody loves to hate the ATF but as long as you follow the rules you will likely never even talk to an agent. Yes they have had their issues but what group hasn't, civillian or government?

At least now we know what we have and what to expect.

Dolomite

[QuietDan]

Well, it's Midnight, and Congressman Issa and his folks have turned on the kitchen light.

There's all the cockroaches in the kitchen, frozen in the bright light, just before they scatter.

We still need to spray.

I would like to see the ATF blown away in the wind, but I'd want it to happen in a new Administration.

Otherwise, it'd be like making ACORN go away and having them just change their name and be sneakier in the future.

[Mad_Squirrell]

What the real problem with fast and the furious scandal is that it was a clandestine attempt to prove to the world that there is a leak of legal U.S guns crossing the border and getting into criminals hands to prop up and gain congressional support for the U.N. small arms treaty which is essentially a global gun ban . Some have suggested that the orders for this operation go all the way to the White House .

[Caster]

I used to be an ATF hater. I'm still not their biggest fan, but there are good people working for them. I know a few ATF agents and they are dang fine fellas. They'll be the first to admit too, there are some low life scum bags working for the ATF. BUT, like Dolomite says...play by the rules. They'll give you pretty much anything you want (ie can afford) just fill out the paperwork. I despise paperwork. I loathe all forms that take my anonymity from me. BUT it's what we have, and breaking the rules doesn't solve or prove anything other than one's own stupidity.

Let me say this, though I probably shouldn't. I have heard it from an ATF agent's own mouth: When the door to door confiscations start, he'll wipe his hind end on his badge and stand against them. I'll bet he ain't the only one.

I treat the ATF like the church says to treat sin. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

[Guest CCI]

As much as I do not like the ATF, some times it's best to leave well enough alone!

[Defender]

No need for concern. The ATF has about as much chance of being disbanded as the IRS.

I’m tired of the whining from Mexican officials and their bad mouthing of the U.S.

Screw them; they allow the cartels and corrupt Police agencies the freedom to do whatever they like.

Apologies? You have got to be kidding me. Has the Mexican government apologized, or more importantly done anything to stop criminals who “walk” across the border that present a danger to the American people? No they haven’t; because they just don’t care.

Maybe I’m alone on this, but drugs are lost on undercover operations, I just don’t care that some guns got lost.

I feel bad that a Border Patrol Agent got killed. But I am not naïve enough to believe that the gunman would not have had a gun if it had not been for this OP. And we still don’t know that the weapon was one that was allowed to be illegally purchased.

It’s a good opportunity for some folks to attack a government agency, and some politicians can get up and make some noise. It’ll grab some headlines for a while, and maybe cause some people to be replaced; but other than that it’s a non-issue.

I'm sure Obama will be apologizing to Mexico real soon, if he has not already done so. Thats one things he's good at-apologizing for America.

[LagerHead]

So you think that corruption and stupidity are going to get a federal agency abolished? More likely to get them extra funding.

[hornett22]

They are never going away without a revolution. They might get renamed but they will still be there.

[Oh Shoot]

.....It’s a good opportunity for some folks to attack a government agency, and some politicians can get up and make some noise. It’ll grab some headlines for a while, and maybe cause some people to be replaced; but other than that it’s a non-issue.

Dunno Dave, I'm beginning to think that between Guns to Mexico, Solyndra, and some other things cooking, there may be enough goods to be gotten on O that should he win re-election, he's impeachable. Rep majority in the Senate and a Deep Throat, and it might happen.

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

They are never going away without a revolution. They might get renamed but they will still be there.

In America revolutions are called elections. Not sure if I should be more disturbed by how right you actually are or more disturbed by your apathy.

[DaveTN]

Dunno Dave, I'm beginning to think that between Guns to Mexico, Solyndra, and some other things cooking, there may be enough goods to be gotten on O that should he win re-election, he's impeachable. Rep majority in the Senate and a Deep Throat, and it might happen.

- OS

We will have to wait and see. As much as I dislike O I don’t think this will hurt him. Besides, if a President can commit perjury in a Grand Jury hearing and not be impeached; I doubt this will do much.

I still believe this comes from Hillary making all those ignorant statements about how 80% of all guns used in crimes in Mexico come from us.

So far there has been some shuffling of people and some resignations, but that’s expected during something like this.

If everyone had just been honest from the beginning I don’t think there would have been much fallout from this operation. All the drama is because it appears an attempt was made to cover it up.

As far as allowing illegal sales and losing the guns in Mexico… I’m sure we’ve lost large quantities of drugs in Mexico and even this country. If they did it as part of a legitimate investigation; I don’t have a problem with it. If they did it to make it appear the illegal gun numbers were higher in Mexico than they really are; they deserve whatever they get.

[Warbird]

The ATF isn't going anywhere. Reagan tried to take advantage of a weak period for the ATF and dismantle them. He failed. So will anyone other president who tries to get rid of them.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

U.S. Government Used Taxpayer Funds To Buy, Sell Weapons During 'Fast And Furious,' Documents Show | Fox News

I'm sure this isn't accurate, since it came from Fox News, but maybe it can add some insight.

If this stuff is true, more than one should hang

[waynesan]

Now there seems to be proof that the BATFE actually bought some of the guns (with our tax dollars) and sold them to cartel buyers. This is getting crazy.

U.S. Government Used Taxpayer Funds To Buy, Sell Weapons During 'Fast And Furious,' Documents Show | Fox News

Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

Read more: U.S. Government Used Taxpayer Funds To Buy, Sell Weapons During 'Fast And Furious,' Documents Show | Fox News

6.8 AR beat me to this story. Delete please.

Edited September 26, 2011 by waynesan

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Aw, that's alright, the more the merrier.

[Glenn]

Fast and furious did it's job. Proved that US guns are going to Mexico. Mexico has already hired a law firm to begin suing American gun companies. They can sue in Mexican courts or international courts and US courts will usually uphold their decisions.

Glenn

[mcurrier]

I think abolishing the ATF would in fact be a good start. Then the EPA, the Department of Education, Homeland Security, FDA,FCC,.....

Dude! All of those acronyms zipped through my mind the second that I read the title of this post. ALL of those krap departments need to go.

[Guest lostpass]

I sincerely hope they expand the ATF. I hope it becomes the ATFVGF.

Cause if it becomes the bureau Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, video game and monogamous sexual relations (don't know why I used "F" earlier) I can finally have one place that regulates all my fun.

I think getting they could streamline the whole process by giving you one thousand dollar tax stamp that covers everything. Get the FUN stamp and you could get a silencer, make your own hooch, roll your own cigars, play insanely violent video games and have sex with you wife in whatever position you wanted all while knowing you have been blessed off on by a governmental agency.

[Ebow1]

"blessed off" isn't the term I would use to describe the actions of governmental agencies like the ATF.