380 ACP Reloading Question

[dbla]

So I'm reloading my first 380. It's going well but I've had three casings come out with a weird crease in the casing. Are these safe to shoot?? These creases came out of the seating die.

In the picture the right hand picture has the weird crease, the left looks normal.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As long as the crease doesn't go all the way through the brass and the round chambers fine I would shoot them up.

I will say this though, the picture makes your brass look like they are over crimped. On staight walled semi autos they need the case mouth to headspace on. You need to be able to catch your fingernail on the case mouth to make sure you have enough of the case mouth exposed.

If you have too much crimp a few things can go wrong.

Best case scenario, the round gooes so deep in the chamber and the firing pin can't reach the primer.

Worst case scenario, the overcrimped case mouth is in the throat and the round is able to be set off. The throat will keep the case mouth from opening and releasing the bullet, effectively sealing the case mouth shut. This can lead to excessive pressures and possibly a catastrophic failure of the case and firearm.

If you can post a closer picture of the leading edge of the case it would be helpful.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

It is normal to see the base of the bullet in the brass like this, where the bullet stretches the brass just a little bit wider than the rest making a visible area. Usually the only reason you can see this is because of lighting tricks, the reflective surface at slightly different angles can really make it show up but the actual deformed case area is really only very slightly out of round. You should only just barely be able to feel that ring where the base of the bullet is. While overcrimped, they look safe to me, it looks like the crimper hit it behind the lip of the case which pushes that part in but makes the actual mouth of the case bell out, allowing headspace safely. It is still wrong -- you are crimping the heck out of them. 380s are small and their cases are thin. Be gentle with them.

[dbla]

Okay cool, I thought I was bairly getting a crimp at all. They come out of the seating die looking like that... It's almost as if the crimp die doesn't do anything. Should I ease up on the ram of my seating die?

[ted]

looks like you over crimped to me could build up to mutch pressure are we talking about the case and where the bullet is seated mine never look like that what type of press are you useing

[Jonnin]

Okay cool, I thought I was bairly getting a crimp at all. They come out of the seating die looking like that... It's almost as if the crimp die doesn't do anything. Should I ease up on the ram of my seating die?

When it comes out of your seating die, the case mouth is opened up wide from being squeezed hard farther in? In that case, is your seating die also a crimper, and if so, it may be set up wrong? Unless the seat die also crimps, the round should come out of bullet seating with the bullet poked in the brass and the case should look more or less like a perfect cylinder. It may have the bullet base stretch ring that we talked about, but otherwise a perfect cylinder. Then crimping should push the brass into the bullet a little bit, but not enough to make the mouth of the case open up like that. If the case mouth is opened up after seating, wider than the bullet, then your seating die must also crimp and needs to be set up differently.

[Jonnin]

looks like you over crimped to me could build up to mutch pressure are we talking about the case and where the bullet is seated mine never look like that what type of press are you useing

I do not think the press matters for the bullet seat ring issue. It seems to be slightly fat bullets: I see this a LOT with my 9x18 when I cram a fat hard cast slug into a 9x19 trimmed case. After a few firings, the back end of the case finally expands to match and the bulge is less visible. I see it now and again with any caliber, sometimes you just get a slightly fatter bullet. I think any dangerous bulges would fail to chamber, for example if the press were at fault and the ring were uneven with a large bulge on one side of the case... that would not fit in the chamber at all, say if your bullet were somehow jammed in at a 10 degree tilt or something.

[dbla]

I'm going to pull all the bullets and start over. I'll update as i go.

[R_Bert]

You might want to do your crimping completely seperate from the seating step. I highly reccomend the Lee Factory Crimp. It is very simple to setup and use, and it just works.

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die 380 ACP - MidwayUSA

Bert

[Jonnin]

I'm going to pull all the bullets and start over. I'll update as i go.

Run one case with no components, see what happens then. IE, size it but do not prime or powder it, then run it thru the seating die (no bullet), see if it is belled or crimped or anything odd, then crimp, see what that does. Then repeat this but use a bullet (no primer, powder). When those turn out ok, proceed to make live rounds.

[Dolomite_supafly]

This is how I setup my pistol dies and it has worked very well.

Remove the loading die or at least loosen it up enough that it will not touch anything.

Back out he bullet seater in the die nearly all the way out.

Take a piece of factory loaded ammunition and put it into the shell holder.

Push the arm down until it hits its limit/ hard stop..

Slowly tighten the seater die down onto the factory loaded cartridge.

Stop when you feel the slightest bit of resistance or if you see the arm move at all, even a small amount.

Lock the loading die down using the lock ring.

Tighten the bullet seater until it hits a hard stop as it hits the bullet tip of the factory loaded ammunition.

Your dies should be close enough to be good without any more adjustment. Doing it this way ensures the case mouth isn't overcrimped which is the most dangerous part other than having too much powder in the case. After you load a few dummy rounds drop them into a magazine and see if they will chamber and extract. I can almost guarantee they will.

Dolomite

[R_Bert]

question (maybe I am not understanding your setup procedure),

Does this assume that the loader uses the same projectile as the factory round ? Even loading for .380 Auto, there are some significant ogive & COAL differences depending on weight and shape of a chosen projectile.

There are also significant case length differences among brands in several calibers (example .45 Colt or .30-30 using Hornady Leverevolution vs XTP rounds/loads)

Bert

[Jonnin]

it gets you close. You would want to use a factory bullet that is like what you are using. I do a similar method -- I keep one loaded round that is the correct OAL from doing it the hard way (seat it shallow and tighten die a little at a time with calipers in hand) and use that to set up the die again if needed. I have also used factory ammo to do it, for simple stuff, like standard 230 grain 45 acp ball ammo, its all the same size and shape so setup off a factory round works great. Clearly, if you set up the die off your short, big hole hollowpoints and reload with long cone-nosed slugs, it will be all wrong...

[R_Bert]

it gets you close. You would want to use a factory bullet that is like what you are using. I do a similar method -- I keep one loaded round that is the correct OAL from doing it the hard way (seat it shallow and tighten die a little at a time with calipers in hand) and use that to set up the die again if needed. I have also used factory ammo to do it, for simple stuff, like standard 230 grain 45 acp ball ammo, its all the same size and shape so setup off a factory round works great. Clearly, if you set up the die off your short, big hole hollowpoints and reload with long cone-nosed slugs, it will be all wrong...

Makes sense

[Dolomite_supafly]

The bullet seater is the easiest thing to adjust. It only affects the OAL of the loaded cartridge.

After you get the die set take the OAL measurement of the loaded round and if it needs to be shorter just tighten the bullet seater in the required amount. In that aspect Lee's are the easiest to adjust.

Also with Lee's after I get the seat depth adjusted to where I like it I will take a piece of tape and use it to lock the bullet seat depth adjustment in place.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

I think you can buy the RCBS lockable die rings or whatever they are called, has a set-screw to lock the die where you had it last for single stage presses -- should fit on any brand of die too.

[dbla]

Hey Guys,

So I pulled all the bullets and redid the cases. I had the bullet seating die setup completely wrong. I didn't have a good understanding of what the die was actually doing, this time around they look like factory rounds. I'll post some pictures this afternoon.

[Hershmeister]

Also be sure to get a case gauge as a final safety check. I like the dillon ones as they are stainless and won't rust up like the Lyman ones

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25548/catid/3

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yep I really like the dillon case gages. Never had much trouble getting ammo to chamber in guns if it fits in the gage.