Where does a school start, and end? The U of Memphis, for instance....

[ZenDog]

Where does a school start and where does the non-school end in terms of the firearm prohibitions?? How can you tell?

I don't expect a legally definitive answer, although that would be nice. And, I won't take your answer and sue you if you are wrong and I get screwed following your advice. I like puzzles, even legal ones, and since I carry in a puzzling area I thought I would pose this question for the collective genius of TGO to answer. (If you put 324 mentally challenged folks together, doesn't their cumulative IQ make the group a genius somehow? I hope so….)

Here's why I am asking this question: My wife is a professor at the U of Memphis-- we live literally a 15 minute walk from her office. The area around the university, which she walks through, is dangerous-- a lot of drive by robberies, smash-and-grabs, the usual punk city crimes of opportunity.

Driving isn't really safer, and we have done the math-- she has realized that she can walk to school faster than she can drive there-- like a lot of universities, parking is crazy and uncertain, so walking from such a close distance actually beats the car in terms of time. And, a lot of folks have been mugged getting into or out of their cars.

Whenever possible I walk with her to campus, or I walk to campus to pick her up after work- she only teaches one class this semester, so I walk to campus on Wednesday at 5 pm to meet her after class.

I know it is illegal to carry at the University---

But-- I am not sure where my community stops and where the university starts. Since it is a University, everything is open to anyone walking or driving. Local folks use the campus as a place to walk, exercise, ride bikes, cut through, etc. Some streets have university property on one side and private property on the other side of the street.

Thus, what's legally "the school"? Where does it start and end?

I'll eventually ask a campus LEO to get their perception, 'cuz they are the ones who will bust me if it ever were to happen, but I thought I'd ask the TGO folks first.

For those of you who know the part of Memphis I am talking about- we live north of Park, south of Southern. I walk with her up Echles Street to take her to school. I am comfortable walking north up to Spottswood- then I am not too certain. I would like to walk with her all the way to Southern, but since all the property around there is U of M it is starting to feel a lot like a campus. But, I am not certain. That's why I am posting this.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

some schools have off campus properties too.... Here's what I would do.

My interpretation of the law is you can carry her in the car and drop her off and still have the gun in the car with a carry permit. I believe as long as you are dropping off or picking up a Dependant you are good to go. You cant leave the vehicle un attended and the firearm cant leave the confines of said vehicle. The key is dropping off and picking up. I will have to search for the law, dont know that part of the TCA by heart. Im pretty sure im right... Its just like dropping off your child at the elementary school.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

btw.. the above may not work out ... so if you cant take her then I'd ask the campus security guy thats the biggest into guns, he will be the most likely to understand... remember by you asking them you may be putting yourself on their radar.

[Fallguy]

IMO...not really knowing the area you are talking about, I would say the public street is the public street and is ok, ANY land owned by the U of M is "school grounds" and therefore illegal since you are walking and not in a vehicle. I don't know for sure, but I would even guess the school's police dept might tell you a public side walk that is not separated by a fence or something from the rest of the grounds is on school property as well.

[saintsfanbrian]

You should be absolutely fine as long as you stay on the sidewalk or the street. You are not "technically" on their grounds as any person has the right to walk there.

[ZenDog]

A clarification- when I go get her, because her schedule is a little iffy, I walk and don't drive. So, I am carrying a weapon and I am on foot when I "drop off and pick-up". Somehow the lawmakers did not think that someone might actually walk to school to drop off or pick up while carrying a weapon. The law seems worded for cars only, but some folks (like me) can walk to school, still.

[Guest 270win]

If walking, i would think that as long as you are on the streets or the right of way, like side walks to the city street, then you would not be on Univ of Memphis property. The sidewalks on Central and Southern should be ok because those are public city streets.

Driving does make the situation easier. You can possess with intent to go armed a handgun when dropping off or picking someone up, or possess a handgun not handled and be legal.

Life would be much easier if our permits were good walking on and across campus. I would not ask any campus police for their 'opinion' and be zeroed in by them when they are bored. It's just easier to conceal your handgun well, follow the law the best you can, and go about your business.

[saintsfanbrian]

Zen, I noticed, when I was a student there, that the parking lots have signage about firearms. The sidewalks did not. The parking lot is officially school property. The common area over on Central in front of the theater and music building is school property. I could walk down the sidewalk but if I diverted and stayed in that area between those two buildings I would have been breaking the law.

The same goes for the buildings along Echles. You can walk her all the way to Walker as long as you do not step off of the street when you get to the other side. The train track area is not Memphis State property. It is owned by the railroad.

[Guest C4Dave]

The code says you can't carry on "any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution."

You need to find out who owns the sidewalks around the campus. They could be owned by the city, or they could be owned by the University. If they are owned by the U, then you are out of luck.

Only other solution I can think of is for you to pick up/drop her off with a car. This would at least avoid the parking hassle.

[ZenDog]

Lots of good thoughtful input here guys, thanks. I figured out a 1 block detour that keeps me on private property all the way to just across the street from her academic building- I think we are in business here. I forgot that the railroad was private property (duh!) but it is such a part of the landscape that it seems like "campus".

Most of the crime occurs in areas on the edge of the campus, where the campus blends into the local neighborhood. We only have about a block or two of that area to walk through before we are in a safer more established neighborhood area.

[saintsfanbrian]

I used to live over at Southern and Graham. While some of the neighborhood is still good, the surrounding areas are starting to decline rapidly.

Good luck.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Do you mean Southern and Goodlett? I can't for the life of me picture Southern and Graham. I take that route to work every morning, but Graham dead ends into Walnut Grove. Does it pick up again further down somewhere?

[ZenDog]

Yes, S Graham is a couple of blocks west of Goodlett. It is only a few blocks- runs between Southern and Park. Typical Memphis street naming arrangement!

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Figures. And so very typical..lol