Literature to pass out while OCing

[Guest nicemac]

But if you OC, your doctor might see you and realize that you own a gun…

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/62636-does-your-doctor-have-right-ask-if-you-gun-owner.html#post789269

[Guest HvyMtl]

"'Its like this: This guy was carrying to get people interested, so he could hand out brochures... What is his intent? Can I trust him? Most will not...'

How many times has it been "like this" while you open carried? Everybody that I have encountered has been more curious than anything. I'm just giving them information, not trying to make them drink coolaid, what's there to trust? They can fact check me, which I hope they would. So many people perpetuate what they THINK open carrying does just because they are against it. "

WestonGrey,

My point was about people's perception. If they are genuinely curious, you pulling out a full on brochure on gun rights, will change that curious expression to one of caution.

In my personal experience - people's perception can go from positive to negative by how you handle the situation. Although my personal experience was not an Open Carry one, my having prepared info definitely changed the tone of the conversation. Having my own experience in a situation where opinions mattered, I do not want you to make the same error I did.

This is why I changed tactics, and found the business card, with your name and email on it, and where you actively write down the info in front of the person, got better results.

Of the times I have OC and had questions, giving out a certain Open Carry website and the State's permit info, seemed quite to the point, and the persons responded positively. Although I did not have a business card, a quick jotting down of the websites and my email worked for me.

Now. Your perception may have been off. Whenever one does something: Wears a vocal t-shirt, speaks on certain topics, puts themselves out there so others can discuss, having a big, 4 color, brochure changes their perception negatively. This is true, not just for OC...

As for my avatar. Yeah, Crazy Harry is the Politically Incorrect Muppet. He was banned for a period after 9/11, even though he was not a terrorist, not from the Middle East, and not remotely about flying planes into buildings. Crazy Harry was the fellow who blew things up.

They now say he is a "pyrotechnics expert..."

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Crazy_Harry

Edited September 23, 2011 by HvyMtl

[QuietDan]

Soft push is better than hard push . . .

[Guest msparks]

Seems like a bad premise from the beginning.

your gun isn't meant to be a conversation piece.

I would guess he would probably have to give out very few pieces of literature.

[Guest Jon]

Some threads here can also sometimes be full of pretentious buttholes who like to accuse everyone else of being closed minded. Make sure you don't fall into THAT category either.

As for the thread getting locked, I really hope not. In fact I'd like to see it stay open just to disprove your theory that your fellow members are lacking in the fortitude and maturity to handle a thread like this without devolving into either buttholedom or closed mindedness.

Sincerely,

The guy who gets tired of whiners making brash generalizations as a last resort when they can no longer intelligently argue their side of an issue.

The 90% of HCP holders on this forum are closed minded. There was no assumptions there. You can CC, and post about CC everyday but the one time you mention you have OC'd then your bashed into the ground like a redheaded step child. The hardcore CC'ers on here will argue day in and day out stating unproven facts of why anyone that OC's is ignorant and looking for trouble. That, to me, is a correct accusation of a closed minded person. I personally have not read one person who OC's that has not said them self that there is a time and place for CC. That, to me, is a correct accusation of a open minded person.

The fact that you want to be a IHA and call me a pretentious butthole is fine. It just goes to show how much you deserve your position on this forum and the level of your own maturity.

I have the facts and the maturity level to handle a thread like this. Unfortunately I have been apart of a number of never ending threads like this and have decided to stay out of them for the most part.

Secondly, I'm sure, as already stated, the OP did not intend for this thread to be a OC vs CC battle.

[Guest Menzoberranzan]

Seems like a bad premise from the beginning.

your gun isn't meant to be a conversation piece.

And carrying literature around to give people?

Say who? You? Who are you to decide what HIS gun is or is not?

[TGO David]

The fact that you want to be a IHA and call me a pretentious butthole is fine. It just goes to show how much you deserve your position on this forum and the level of your own maturity.

Um, I never called you a pretentious butthole but if you want to lump yourself into that category I'm not going to talk you off the ledge. That's your call. You know, if the shoe fits and all that.

As for my maturity level -- whatever.

And I'm still trying to figure out how you figure me founding this forum and running this forum somehow equates into a situation where I'm supposed to deserve something. But again -- whatever.

[EastHipster]

Say who? You? Who are you to decide what HIS gun is or is not?

Yes. I do say

At the Gun Range? Conversation piece.

In line at the store? Nah.

I think he should get a custom holster that says "please ask me about my gun" with a big smiley face on it.

Or maybe a Blinking LCD message that scrolls across his belt.

That way the guy in line behind him can write down the website URL without disturbing him

[Guest kirkosaurus]

OK, I'm sure you guys knew I had to get in on this.

For what purpose are you open carrying? Personally, I would not want the attention nor would I want to be a target in the event something bad went down. Just my opinion

Why open carry?

Why Open Carry

Here's a thread with some good points on OC. Started by a troll LEO who admits to CC'ing so he can put a criminal "in a body bag":

Open Carry VS Concealed Carry Why?

Here's a quote from one of the posts with excellent reasons to OC:

"1) Deterrance. I carry a weapon to be able to protect myself and my family if needed, but I hope it never is. While I'm not going to go dig for all the cites, when criminals see someone armed they almost always look for a different target. So by OCing it actually further reduces my chances of needing to draw my weapon.

2) Accessability/Speed of Draw. If I need to use my weapon then I want to be able to get to it quickly, and simply put OCing is the fastest way to draw a weapon.

3) I don't want to look like a victim. When one CCs they look just like any other potential victim. My goal is to dissuade criminals from targetting me and not looking like a potential victim helps with that.

4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

5) It's my right. A right not exercised is effectively a right lost.

6) Informing the public. By OCing it shows the general public that bad things don't magically happen when a gun is present and it helps to dispel the various gun myths that have been perpetrated by the government, police, hollywood, and the media.

7) Bad guys almost exclusively CC. Why do I want to be sneaky about having a weapon when I have nothing to hide and just appear like them? I mean when I'm CCing I have to constantly be worried about if it's showing or if I'm printing, etc."

Open carry is for those wishing to become the first targets. Concealed carry is for those that wish to choose when they become a target. Open carry will not give you an advantage in a defensive shooting. Concealed carry does not take any capabilities away, and gives you the option of suprise.

43 states now with some kind of open carry. Where are all these stories of someone being targeted? It just doesn't happen. You sound like the Brady anti-gun people. "You shouldn't have a gun because someone will take it from you and shoot you with it!".

Surprise? Yeah, SURPRISE! You've been targeted because you look like a sheep! Now try digging that gun out of your underwear while the BG has the jump on you.

i agree,, element of surprise

The element of surprise is a great offensive tactic. As a defensive tactic it sucks.

Open carrying a firearm gets you noticed quick, and by many people. It's kind of like a big neon sign that follows you around saying "I'm carrying a gun, look a me!!!!!".

Concealed carry gives you the element of surprise in a developing situation because if you conceal well, YOU get to make the call on when you unholster and get in the fight. Open carrying will usually escalate a situation and force you into taking action with your firearm before you are ready, and have had a chance to asses the situation to see if it can be solved without the use of your weapon.

That's right, OC says look at me! Look at me, criminal! And since most criminals don't want holes in them they will go find an easier target.

No, OC doesn't escalate the situation. OC stops the situation before it even begins.

And mentioning open carry around here is the equivalent of having a "kick me" sign on your back.

And my butt is sore! And it's not because I shot it with my Glock.

YOu can see my previous post on why OC is bad tactics if you carry a firearm to protect yourself. If you carry a firearm just to show everybody how big your stones are, and have no worry about tactics and retention, then Open Carry all you want. That way people know you're a MAN!, Or, THE Man. Or maybe both......

........THere are a lot of factors that go into why someone wants to carry a firearm. FOr some, it's the BadAss syndrome. They want everybody to konw that they are the baddest guy on the block. For others, it's a matter of pure survival. If you are a survivalist, then you already know that it is bad to draw attention to yourself.

Nice projection. I get so sick and tired of this stereotyping. You are no better than the anti-gun people who see a couple of people do something criminal with a gun and project this on all gun owners. Shame on you.

Ask any professional tactics and skills instructor and they will tell you that there is no purpose served by open carrying. Again, it comes down to YOU being able to make the choice on when to get in the fight. Open carry also makes it easier from someone to try to grab your firearm.

Really? There are hundreds of professionals out there that are pro OC. Any "professional" that says there is no purpose served by OC has their head in the sand or is selling you some super-uber-ninja-CC tactic course.

I guess you're afraid of the boogy man too? How many other things are you afraid of that don't exist? With 43 states having OC by your logic people would have their guns grabbed from them all the time! Guess what? It doesn't happen!

[QuietDan]

In a perfect world,

I would sometimes open carry my 1911 because it's pretty . . .

But, I would ALWAYS conceal carry a Glock because . . . .

[Guest DanE479]

Dude, hang your ass out on the line for a dozen years and then come talk to me. Study criminals and criminal psychology like I have and then regurgitate internet crap to me and see what I think of it. I've carried a firearm for 12 years in three different states (including a very anti-gun state, as an armed professional), and put a whole bunch of study and thought into things.

You don't need to open carry to avoid trouble. It's called situational awareness, and if you're carrying a firearm, you should have it. Mindset trumps everyting. You say that people who carry concealed have something to hide. Yup, you're right. I'm hiding my gun so that people don't notice me. It's called being the Grey Man. Blend in, don't stick out, have good situational awareness, and most likely, you will never find yourself in a situation where you must use your firearm. YOu say that I am no better than the anti-gun people because I happen to think that if people behaved a little more responsibly with their firearms, things would go smoother for gun owners. Hey, ask those people that were open carrying unloaded guns in California how things went for them. THe nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

And, my statement about those who carry becasue it makes them feel like a True Badass is totally correct. We've all seen Badasses at the range. They strut around, proudly displaying thier pimped out tacticool weapons and then when shooting, can't make a good fast string stay on target. I'm kind of thinking that you are one of those by the way you attack and ridicule my opinions.

YOu talk about the element of suprise being ****ty for a defensive tactic, well, how do you konw that? How many gunfights have you been in. Better yet, how many police and civillian shootings have you studied? How much time have you spent doing Force on Force training? Suprise is a HUGE factor in defense. I know an LA police officer that was at an ATM off duty who had a guy pull a pistol on him and demand he empty his account. This officer was cool headed enough to act suprised, act fearful, play the helpless person and drop his wallet on the ground. When the bad guy bent to pick up the wallet, the officer pulled his revolver and contact shot the bad guy in the head. So, tell me again, how is suprise a ****ty thing to have on your side?

YOu say that OC stops the situation before it ever begins? So, you're at the gas station, back to the door, robber comes in, starts yelling, sees you turn around, sees you gun, and shoots you because you are wearing the gun openly. How did carrying openly stop that situation? That same scenario has happened to police officers many times.

4) I'm not a ninja. By CCing you have to attempt to ambush your ambusher in order to use your weapon. And that is just something I'm not interested in doing.

That is the most F'ed up example of mindset I have seen in a long time. It's so stupid as to be ludicrous. So, ambush is for cowards? Hmm... Tell that to the US military. Hell, tell that to Seal Team 6... If you are thinking about such things like this in relation to self defense, you need to get real. Your enemy is not held back by any constraints at all. Defense is about survival. Once you have made the determination that you are in mortal peril, humanity, honor, and all the rest of that garbage goes out the window. YOU FIGHT! YOU FIGHT TO SURVIVE! Your only rule of engagement is to stop The Fight once your enemy has disengaged (wether by turning his firearm away from you, or he has been Stopped by your rounds) per the laws of the jursidiction you are in. I'd rather be Alive and sneaky than Dead and not-sneaky or whatever it is that you are trying to get at.

As a final riposte, I feel obligated to inform you that my pistol is NOT, in fact, in my underware. It is located in my IWB holster at the 5:30 location underneath a loose fitting, unbuttoned overshirt. I'm reasonably sure that I can draw it every bit as fast as you can draw your pistol from your open carry holster.

I know, I'm just an internet ninja, but ninjas are fast. Remember that...

Fast, AND sneaky...

PS: I AM afraid of the boogeyman. He's a mean motherf*cker.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Dude, hang your ass out on the line for a dozen years and then come talk to me. Study criminals and criminal psychology like I have and then regurgitate internet crap to me and see what I think of it. I've carried a firearm for 12 years in three different states (including a very anti-gun state, as an armed professional), and put a whole bunch of study and thought into things.

So you have more experience than the years of research like this?:

Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths

Take a look. Tons of research done there that says criminals AVOID armed people. What ever criminal and criminal psychology study you did that tells you otherwise is WRONG.

You don't need to open carry to avoid trouble. It's called situational awareness, and if you're carrying a firearm, you should have it. Mindset trumps everyting. You say that people who carry concealed have something to hide. Yup, you're right. I'm hiding my gun so that people don't notice me. It's called being the Grey Man. Blend in, don't stick out, have good situational awareness, and most likely, you will never find yourself in a situation where you must use your firearm. YOu say that I am no better than the anti-gun people because I happen to think that if people behaved a little more responsibly with their firearms, things would go smoother for gun owners.

Please tell me where I ever said you HAVE to open carry to avoid trouble? Nope, never said it. Also I never said anyone who carries concealed has something to hide. Reading comprehension: It's what's for dinner.

I conceal carry everyday. And OC whenever I can. Figure that one out.

Hey, ask those people that were open carrying unloaded guns in California how things went for them. THe nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

The problem there isn't OC, the problem is pants wetting liberals that rule the state. The fact that it's raising an issue should tell you it's something that's good for gun rights.

Again, you sound like the anti-gun Brady people. "Guns are scary and icky and we should keep people from carrying them because it causes problems!!!"

And, my statement about those who carry becasue it makes them feel like a True Badass is totally correct. We've all seen Badasses at the range. They strut around, proudly displaying thier pimped out tacticool weapons and then when shooting, can't make a good fast string stay on target. I'm kind of thinking that you are one of those by the way you attack and ridicule my opinions.

This statement speaks volumes of yourself and totally ruins any credibility you have on this forum. Plain bigotry. That's a shame that someone who claims to be pro-gun displays such negative projection. If you had even taken the time to see any of my posts regarding open carry you would know that I am all for normal looking everyday people open carry firearms and against any of the Voldemort's that want to dress up in camo and tote an AK around Radnor Lake.

YOu talk about the element of suprise being ****ty for a defensive tactic, well, how do you konw that? How many gunfights have you been in. Better yet, how many police and civillian shootings have you studied? How much time have you spent doing Force on Force training? Suprise is a HUGE factor in defense. I know an LA police officer that was at an ATM off duty who had a guy pull a pistol on him and demand he empty his account. This officer was cool headed enough to act suprised, act fearful, play the helpless person and drop his wallet on the ground. When the bad guy bent to pick up the wallet, the officer pulled his revolver and contact shot the bad guy in the head. So, tell me again, how is suprise a ****ty thing to have on your side?

Or this officer could have open carried and avoided this situation altogether since criminals generally don't attack people with openly displayed guns?

See, the difference between you and me is that I want to NOT have to shoot someone in the head. I would prefer to deter the crime, not have to kill someone, not have to spend thousands defending myself in a civil suit and not have to lose my firearm while the situation is being investigated.

YOu say that OC stops the situation before it ever begins? So, you're at the gas station, back to the door, robber comes in, starts yelling, sees you turn around, sees you gun, and shoots you because you are wearing the gun openly. How did carrying openly stop that situation? That same scenario has happened to police officers many times.

And where is this happening? Where are all the OC'ers being shot first in a robbery? Why do you continue to be scared of things that don't exist?

That is the most F'ed up example of mindset I have seen in a long time. It's so stupid as to be ludicrous. So, ambush is for cowards? Hmm... Tell that to the US military. Hell, tell that to Seal Team 6...

What?? lol. Where did I say "ambush is for cowards?"? Are you even reading my posts before replying?

OFFENSE, OFFENSE, OFFENSE. You are speaking OFFENSE not DEFENSE. Ambushing is not DEFENSE. As a civilian I carry a weapon for DEFENSIVE purposes, not offensive purposes.

And guess what? The US military and Seal Team OPEN CARRY! Hmmm....wonder why they do this?

I'm reasonably sure that I can draw it every bit as fast as you can draw your pistol from your open carry holster.

I know, I'm just an internet ninja, but ninjas are fast. Remember that...

I may take you up on that challenge. Just name the time and place?

Edited September 24, 2011 by kirkosaurus

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok, you two, how about taking your argument to pm, instead of taking the thread off topic?

Oh, and the idea of "I have to correct the person wrong on the internet," well that simply does not work.

If you want to give out info - do it gently, be polite and friendly, and do it in an unofficial way, it works best.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Ok, you two, how about taking your argument to pm, instead of taking the thread off topic?

I'd call it a discussion, not an argument and if we took every discussion to PM what would be the purpose of these forum?

I do agree it's off topic but I didn't start that.

[Guest bkelm18]

I'd call it a discussion, not an argument and if we took every discussion to PM what would be the purpose of these forum?

I do agree it's off topic but I didn't start that.

Your OC discussions really serve no purpose. You regurgitate the same stuff over and over. You get your knickers in a wad everytime someone says something against OCing. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Grow up and deal with it.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Your OC discussions really serve no purpose. You regurgitate the same stuff over and over. You get your knickers in a wad everytime someone says something against OCing. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Grow up and deal with it.

That's because some people keep regurgitating the same false information over and over again.

LOL. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I do expect them to be honest, which I see little of from the anti-OC crowd.

[Guest uzzi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a dude by the name of Leonard Embody who open carried in a state park and a Costo and because of his actions now state parks reviewed and restricted their gun policy and Costco started their No Gun policy? I think I read that in the Nashville Scene somewhere.

[Fallguy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a dude by the name of Leonard Embody who open carried in a state park and a Costo and because of his actions now state parks reviewed and restricted their gun policy and Costco started their No Gun policy? I think I read that in the Nashville Scene somewhere.

State law allows carry in state parks, I don't know of any restrictions at any park that aren't alread in the law. I don't think any policy go against the law.

I think the Costco he carried in may have posted, but it has been reported on here that not all of them are posted.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a dude by the name of Leonard Embody who open carried in a state park and a Costo and because of his actions now state parks reviewed and restricted their gun policy and Costco started their No Gun policy? I think I read that in the Nashville Scene somewhere.

That's "Voldemort". He's the guy I mentioned in this post:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/62628-literature-pass-out-while-ocing-3.html#post789768

[DaveTN]

That's "Voldemort". He's the guy I mentioned in this post:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/62628-literature-pass-out-while-ocing-3.html#post789768

Are you him?

[strickj]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a dude by the name of Leonard Embody who open carried in a state park and a Costo and because of his actions now state parks reviewed and restricted their gun policy and Costco started their No Gun policy? I think I read that in the Nashville Scene somewhere.

Well, kinda. He open carried an AK pistol in a park. Not exactly the same thing as OCing a handgun on your hip. His intentions there are debatable.

Some say it was intentional to cause parks to be posted. Others say it was intentional so he could file a frivolous suit - which I think he did ended up filling suit.

Don't remember all of the details with Costco but I wanna say he contacted them to get them to post.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Are you him?

Are you Buford Tune?

[DaveTN]

Are you Buford Tune?

No, I have all my fingers.

[Guest Jon]

Um, I never called you a pretentious butthole but if you want to lump yourself into that category I'm not going to talk you off the ledge. That's your call. You know, if the shoe fits and all that.

As for my maturity level -- whatever.

And I'm still trying to figure out how you figure me founding this forum and running this forum somehow equates into a situation where I'm supposed to deserve something. But again -- whatever.

Some threads here can also sometimes be full of pretentious buttholes who like to accuse everyone else of being closed minded. Make sure you don't fall into THAT category either.

Yeah, yeah you did lol, maybe not directly but the sarcasm was strong in that one.

on another note I think im gonna start OC on of them there AK pistols. Seems like that guy knows what he is doing, definitely winning bigger than Charlie Sheen.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Jon

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

Woooo hoooo! Another OC vs CC thread. Looks like we have to rehash the same arguments at least once a week or it starts getting stale around here!

I think I'm gonna go start a 9mm vs .45 thread! Who's with me?!