Tennessee Public Safety Coalition

[Guest Legally Armed]

Here is the link to the letter sent to the members of the Tennessee House of Representatives on HB 410.

http://www.legallyarmed.com/resources/sheriffltrhb410.pdf

Here is what I am going to do and I respectfully ask that all of you on this forum do the same thing. I am calling my County Sheriff and requesting an appointment so I can get his direct answer on this issue. I am doing the same with my Chief of Police. Did they take part in a vote by the Tennessee Public Safety Coalition, the Serhiff's Association, or the Associatin of Chief's of Police? We all need to know what every Sheriff and Chief of Police in the entire state of Tennessee said on this issue. A Sheriff is your elected official and Chief Law Enforcement Officer of your county, we need to know his or her position on this issue. Has the Tennessee Public Safety Coalition just make up this letter to influence the members of the House, or was there an actual vote from Sheriff's and Chiefs.

For those of you who don't remember the beginning years of the Tennessee Handgun Permit, there was tremendous opposition and problems when the Sheriff's were the regulatory agencies for issuing the permits. Lets not let them influence the legislature again. Don't let this HB 410 be defeated because some law officials don't want us to enter restaurants with our pistol. Take a hard position to defend this beneficial proposal. Remeber, we are speaking about locations where food is served and the majority of the income is generated by the sale of food not alcohol. I don't care about bars & we should not deter from the intent of the proposed legislation. The letter in the link is misleading and everyone should be make aware of it. Sionce D.A.'s are also involved, this is where the 'misleading' might be coming from.

I have set-up a special e-mail [ restaurantcarry@legallyarmed.com ] for anyone who wants to help on this issue. I am not asking for any help but, the more people involved, the better the outcome might be. I, as a number of you, fought in the beginning years to get the permit law passed and then to get it to work better. I took more than a few hits during those years and after. Now, as in those years, I don't like what is going on with this issue. We need to take a hard position on this issue. Remember, with any new administration, it might be harder to fight any issue relating to firearms and especially carrying defensive weapons. We need to make all our elected officials aware of how WE feel. There are more Tennessee Handgun Permit Holders than Sheriff's, Chiefs, and District Attorneys. Let most of the 200,000 legally armed citizens in Tennessee make their voice heard.

[Fallguy]

I will do my best to get with my Sheriff and Chief of Police and see what they say.

[robin48]

We have to get Emperor Naifeh voted out of office. He will do his best to have this killed in committee.

[BigPoppa]

We have to get Emperor Naifeh voted out of office.

+ 1

He is the major stumbling block to A LOT of right to carry legislation.

[Guest Legally Armed]

We need to establish what Sheriff's & Chiefs have been contacted. If you contact a Sheriff or Chief and get a meeting or a response from them, send the information to:

restaurantcarry@legallyarmed.com

all data will be entered on a special page for this issue.

If anyone has another idea, let us know. I will work on this page over the weekend and have it ready by Monday. Also, we need to have gun stores, gun ranges, trainers, etc., have information in their establishments. I will have flyers made up next week to place in these locations and at gun shows. Anyone who wants to help distribute these flyers let me know at the e-mail above. Just want some of you to know that I have already been contacted about my objections to what was written in the Tennessee Public Safety Coalition. This looks like it could get as nasty as the early stages of enacting the handgun permit law. Please don't forget that to counter claims that problems will occur, is the historical data showing that handgun permit holders do not become violent individuals once they get their handgun permit. The 'proof' is in the historical data on this link: http://legallyarmed.com/resources/tn2007handgunstats.htm

Edited March 14, 2008 by Legally Armed

[Guest Legally Armed]

Here is an up-date on this issue.

This letter was sent out without the OK by the Tennessee Sheriff's Associatoin. They were not even contacted about it. Only two (2) Tennessee Sheriff's Normal Lewis from Montgomery Count [who is not running for re-elction], and Mrak Luttrell from Shelby County. This is a means to hoodwink the Tennessee House of Representatives into believing that the majority of Tennessee Sheriffs oppose this bill.

Everyone needs to contact their County Sheriff to find out their postion on HB 410. We need to get their actual position. Again, send information to:

restaurantcarry@legallyarmed.com

I will be doing the Hopkinsville Gun Show in Hopkinsville Kentucky is anyone wants to meet with me there.

The Tennesseean and another major newspaper in Tennessee have run the story that the majority of law enforcment officer in Tennessee oppose this bill. The Tennessee Public Safety Coalition is in the office of the Chief of Police.

[Guest 270win]

HB 410 is a crappy bill, in my opinion. It places the burden of proof on those with permits to know if an establishment grosses 60% of its revenue from food. That is so silly. There is another bill being heard that is much cleaner, that creates having a handgun carry permit as an exemption to carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol and beer.....no stipulations on food, water, or liquor amount. If the 'restaurant carry' 410 bill is passed, we still will not be able to legally carry at pro sporting events because the stadiums do not generate enough revenue from food. It is important to remember that many theaters, like the Orpheum in Memphis, serve alcohol....the HB 410 bill does not make us legal there either. HB 410 also allows the state to revoke our permits for violating the 'alcohol carry' ban. Presently, at worst, our permits can be suspended, and we still have a hearing.

[Guest 270win]

HB0702 is a much cleaner bill and will be heard next week!

[Guest Boomhower]

None of your links are working for me. Is your site down?

[Guest Legally Armed]

Although there might be a cleaner bill, HB410 does stipulate the establishment must receive 60% of their revenue from the sale of FOOD. If you were ever involved in the legislative process, you should realize we need to take small steps if we want something passed. We can refer to Kentucky that puts the limit at 51% but, 60% has a better ring to the general public. If this bill passes, we can always come back to ammending. Also, don't miss the opportunity we have now because the letter from law enforcement opposing this bill is 90% a fraud. We need to go after what we can and use it to our favor to get HB410 passed this session. Keep it clean and don't try for the moon now

[Guest Legally Armed]

Don't know why the e-mail link is not working. Here it is again:

restaurantcarry@legallyarmed.com

Edited March 14, 2008 by Legally Armed

[robin48]

Although there might be a cleaner bill, HB410 does stipulate the establishment must receive 60% of their revenue from the sale of FOOD. If you were ever involved in the legislative process, you should realize we need to take small steps if we want something passed. We can refer to Kentucky that puts the limit at 51% but, 60% has a better ring to the general public. If this bill passes, we can always come back to ammending. Also, don't miss the opportunity we have now because the letter from law enforcement opposing this bill is 90% a fraud. We need to go after what we can and use it to our favor to get HB410 passed this session. Keep it clean and don't try for the moon now

Good point

[Fallguy]

Oops...I wasn't paying attention to the bill numbers. I haven't read 410 yet, but based on what is being said here, I have to agree with Razorback2003 that HB0702 is much better bill.

Also the senate companion bill of HB0702, SB0023 has already passed in the senate. It only needs to pass the house before going to the Governor.

The senate companion bill for HB0410, SB0714 has been withdrawn from the senate.

Seems like supporting HB0410 over HB0702 would be almost like starting over...in fact it would be starting over in the senate. Also HB0702 has more sponsors than HB0410. Since it's companion bill in the senate has been withdrawn, not even sure why HB0410 is moving in the house?

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I'm a little confused here, too... looks like both HB0410 and HB0702 are up for consideration this Wednesday.

[Guest 270win]

I have a feeling HB 0702 will be more favorably considered than HB 410. If you are going to change a law, change it right the first time. I don't see HB 0702 (without the 51% amendment that i'm not sure passed or not) being a problem. It would be a change for TN, but in the grand scheme of other states, the law would not be. Those who can cross into Alabama can carry in a bar, restaurant, or schools. Folks down there are issued inexpensive to get concealed pistol licenses (sometimes on the spot) from county sheriffs. Most sheriffs down there do not require training or fingerprinting. Does that make their process a bad process? No i don't think it is a bad process south of us. It just proves how stupid people with TN carry permits who have paid their dues in fees, class, and fingerprinting cannot carry in schools and restaurants/bars.

It is already against the law to be under the influence of alcohol while carrying a handgun in TN, thus it should not matter what kind of place a permittee is carrying as long as he is not intoxicated/under influence.

[Guest tadams]

702 is definitely the way to go. Just as it confused us, it's bound to be even more confusing when debated in session. Can you say misdirect, Mr. Magician?? If they're coming up the same day, I don't like the sound of that.

Irregardless, Legally Armed is 100% correct in saying that the impression given, by such a letter to the House, is a complete farce and that each and every one of our elected sheriffs need to be made aware that this letter has been sent, as though on their behalf. They need to make sure their individual opinions be heard and know that they've got constituents who have a great interest in making that happen.

Travis

[Fallguy]

don't see HB 0702 (without the 51% amendment that i'm not sure passed or not) being a problem.

The 51% did not pass...in fact it the amendment was withdrawn before even being considered.

I have sent an e-mail to the sponsor of HB0410 asking about it being up at the same time as HB0702, when the senate bill for for 702 has passed and the one for 410 has been withdrawn. We'll see if I get anything back.

[Fallguy]

Here is the response I got from Rep. Todd.

Steve

I have had the these bills for the last 8 years and my bill will not let anyone

care a hand gun in a bar. That is why the food percentage is in the bill and

restaurant ass. is not opposing my bill. The NRA and all other gun org. have

support the bill I have for years. The way the comm. is set up it has been hard

to get a bill out this sub-comm..

Curry

I thanked him for his support of TN firearms owners and that I hoped one of the bills is able to pass.

[Marswolf]

Steve

I have had the these bills for the last 8 years and my bill will not let anyone

care a hand gun in a bar. That is why the food percentage is in the bill and

restaurant ass. is not opposing my bill. The NRA and all other gun org. have

support the bill I have for years. The way the comm. is set up it has been hard

to get a bill out this sub-comm..

Curry

Some states do allow carry in bars and it hasn't been a problem. If we need to get PC and not allow bar carry, then that's fine. But it is a fix to a problem that doesn't exist.

We just need to allow carry.

[DaveTN]

I guess I’m the odd man out on this issue. I’m not sure what the latest versions of the bills are, but I don’t think a person has anymore business drinking and carrying than they do drinking and driving. Maybe it comes with having to deal with the results of both to often.

I don’t have a problem with letting a person carry in a restaurant that serves liquor as long as he is not consuming alcohol…. at all.

[Guest jp79]

I have a different opinion of this also. I grew up in a state that allows carrying into bars, clubs, restaurants. You can drink in those places, but if you cross the legal limit you go to jail and loose your license. I'm not aware of any problems cause by that. I have no problems at all with someone drinking a beer with their meal even if they are carrying.

[Guest canynracer]

I guess I’m the odd man out on this issue. I’m not sure what the latest versions of the bills are, but I don’t think a person has anymore business drinking and carrying than they do drinking and driving. Maybe it comes with having to deal with the results of both to often.

I don’t have a problem with letting a person carry in a restaurant that serves liquor as long as he is not consuming alcohol…. at all.

Agreed...

[Fallguy]

I guess I’m the odd man out on this issue. I’m not sure what the latest versions of the bills are, but I don’t think a person has anymore business drinking and carrying than they do drinking and driving. Maybe it comes with having to deal with the results of both to often.

I don’t have a problem with letting a person carry in a restaurant that serves liquor as long as he is not consuming alcohol…. at all.

Both bills specifically forbad HCP holders from consuming alcohol while armed. The main difference was one had the "51% rule" and one did not.

The bill sponsored by Rep. Curry (51%) died in sub-committee, the other bill is in the summer study committee and from what I could see when it was brought up in the committee, it will end up being amended to some how allow carry in restaraunts, but not bars.

[Marswolf]

I have a different opinion of this also. I grew up in a state that allows carrying into bars, clubs, restaurants. You can drink in those places, but if you cross the legal limit you go to jail and loose your license. I'm not aware of any problems cause by that. I have no problems at all with someone drinking a beer with their meal even if they are carrying.

I'm sure we won't get this in Tennessee, but the reality is that letting people drink while carrying just hasn't been a problem in places that allow it. I suspect it happens dozens of times a day in Tennessee without any trouble.

I just don't see a problem with having a glass of wine with your meal while packing. But maybe I'm wrong and that will bring about a flood of blood raging down the aisles of restaurants.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I'm sure we won't get this in Tennessee, but the reality is that letting people drink while carrying just hasn't been a problem in places that allow it. I suspect it happens dozens of times a day in Tennessee without any trouble.

I just don't see a problem with having a glass of wine with your meal while packing. But maybe I'm wrong and that will bring about a flood of blood raging down the aisles of restaurants.

I'm in agreement with you here... but the reality of our situation is that there's no way in hell we'll get a bill passed to permit any kind of drinking while carrying. Maybe a few years down the road, with a changing of the guard, something like that can make it through, but for now, it seems like just getting restaurant carry, even with a 51%-type rule, is going to be an achievement.