Acceptable Cartridge Length Variance?

[BPE]

I'm new to reloading. I did some about 1 1/2 years ago but only pressed out about 10-20 rounds. Now I've cleaned out my collection of brass and have about 650 rounds ready to reload. Right now I'm working on reloading some .40 S&W brass. This is all one-shot brass from varying manufactures but the largest bulk of it coming from Remington.

In my Modern Reloading (Second Edition) book by Richard Lee it shows a proper length from head to neck being .850". After running the cases through a full size die and putting my micrometer on the brass I'm coming up short at .844"-.846", so I'm about .004"-.006". Is this an acceptable variance in the length of the brass? I understand it will increase the pressure on the brass so I'm being cautious as I enjoy the use of all my digits.

I've tried adjusting the full size primer to allow for a deeper set against the brass but there seems to be no change. Any assistance or words or wisdom would be appreciated.

Additionally, right now I'm moving forward with depriming/resizing prior to putting this brass into a tumbler with my walnut. Am I doing these steps backwards? I had imagined that depriming and then cleaning would allow me to keep from having to clean out the primer pocket afterwards if a case wasn't too dirty. Am I incorrect in this assumption?

Sorry to put two questions so unrelated together but I didn't want to create a bunch of new threads.

[Jonnin]

As far as I know, this type of brass gets shorter as it is used. Random length brass will mess with your crimp if you are a perfectionist, but you should be ok to use up to the point that your primer hole wears out, as that should wear out long before your case becomes too short to use. The caliber is usable between AT LEAST .84 to .85, if not shorter still. I do not think you can go too much over .850. It may be good all the way to .825 or so --- as long as the bullet seats in the brass well enough to stay there and the OAL of your finished round is in spec, the round is OK to shoot, if not the best for accuracy or consistency. What makes the pressure increase is a volume decrease, which would mean you seated the bullets deeper --- if you kept the same OAL, the bullet is into the brass at the same depth as always, there is just less brass around the bullet now. If you go deeper for your OAL, you must reduce your powder charge and deal with that if your loads are hot. A small amount of extra depth quickly leads to a lot of pressure... try to stay with the load data's OAL spec.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Jonnin

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'm new to reloading. I did some about 1 1/2 years ago but only pressed out about 10-20 rounds. Now I've cleaned out my collection of brass and have about 650 rounds ready to reload. Right now I'm working on reloading some .40 S&W brass. This is all one-shot brass from varying manufactures but the largest bulk of it coming from Remington.

In my Modern Reloading (Second Edition) book by Richard Lee it shows a proper length from head to neck being .850". After running the cases through a full size die and putting my micrometer on the brass I'm coming up short at .844"-.846", so I'm about .004"-.006". Is this an acceptable variance in the length of the brass? I understand it will increase the pressure on the brass so I'm being cautious as I enjoy the use of all my digits.

It will not increase pressure. You are still seating to the same depth regardless of how long the brass is. That is the space for the powder is going to be the same even if you brass was .1 shorter.

Also, realistically .004"-.006" variance is nothing as long as the firing pin is setting off the primers reliably.

I've tried adjusting the full size primer to allow for a deeper set against the brass but there seems to be no change. Any assistance or words or wisdom would be appreciated.

I do not understand what you are trying to do. You want the primer flush with the egde or maybe a very, very little below. If you seat primers too deep it can cause light strikes.

Additionally, right now I'm moving forward with depriming/resizing prior to putting this brass into a tumbler with my walnut. Am I doing these steps backwards? I had imagined that depriming and then cleaning would allow me to keep from having to clean out the primer pocket afterwards if a case wasn't too dirty. Am I incorrect in this assumption?

You want to tumble your brass before it hits the first die. The reason is there will be dirt and debris that can harm your die. A random piece of sand can cause a burr in your die that will in turn cause a scratch on every piece of brass. Even if you have walnut on or in your cases after tumbling the steel die will crush it while sand won't be crushed by your die. I always tumble first, deprime and size, tumble again, the prime and finally load. I do this with rifle and pistol brass.

Sorry to put two questions so unrelated together but I didn't want to create a bunch of new threads.

Now if you add the .006" and seating the primers .005" deeper than normal that takes away .01" from the firing pin strike. And in some guns that is enough to go from a reliable gun to a unreliable gun. I wouldn't worry about the .006" variance but I would also make sure to seat the primers flush with the case and no deeper.

I use every piece of brass I can find. All makes and never worry about OAL. On a straight walled case you will probably lose it or loosen the primer pocket before you stretch them a noticeable amount.

Dolomite

[BPE]

Thanks a ton for the feedback Jonnin and Dolomite. I now feel better about moving forward in reloading with the variances I'm seeing. I'm not shooting necessarily for perfection of the cartridge but for safety overall as I go throughout the process. It has been impressed on me numerous times by individuals that if you choose to reload then great - just be mindful and careful and don't get in a rush.

@Dolomite - I was referring to setting my die for depriming and sizing to a deeper depth thinking that may extend the length of the case. Of course, it now seems that this theory was well misplaced. I have reset the depth of the sizing die back to specifications as to not damage the deprime pin. And thanks for the tip on the tumble process. I have not been tumbling prior to sizing but will be reinspecting my last set of brass I did and will be following your suggestion going forward. It will take a bit more time but is sound logic and makes good sense.

[Jonnin]

I have no idea what you are saying about the deprime pin. The pin should fall into empty space below the brass, there is nothing there to hit that could damage it. What you want to avoid is mashing the die into the shell plate too hard, its best if you set up so they all but touch but do not actually touch. The only way I know of to damage the deprime pin is to deprime berdan brass, where the holes for the primer spark are off center and the pin will be pushed into solid brass, folding it over to the side if you tried to force it. If you feel that much resistance in the press, stop before you break things, nothing should take extreme amounts of force and using that sort of force is 1) likely to break something and 2) possibly dangerous if the force is applied to a primed case. As for tumbled brass, I just do it once, first thing. I do not see a need to re-tumble after sizing the brass; if your primer pocket is really dirty use a primer pocket brush on it. It takes a lot of firings of a case before the primer pocket becomes clogged enough to matter.

[BPE]

I have no idea what you are saying about the deprime pin. The pin should fall into empty space below the brass, there is nothing there to hit that could damage it.

I understand what you're saying. I've just read numerous times in books and the manual that setting the sizing die too low can cause damage to the pin should it come in contact with anything. Of course it is pushing right through the brass as expected. I'm just being overly (maybe too overly) cautious with the press and the reload process and therefore may be using terminology or turn of phrases incorrectly. I'll loosen up once I understand every facet and detail of what it is I am doing and why I am doing it. For now I'm taking it step by step per the instructions as to not cause undue harm to myself or others around me when firing this ammunition. Thanks for your feedback. It has proven helpful in my search for knowledge and understanding.

[Jonnin]

I am the same way (over cautious), you cannot be too careful with explosives. If that pin can hit anything, something is not set up correctly. This should be obvious right away: your shell plate will be off center, the brass not in the shell plate, or the primer arm thingy may be stuck up in there. Any of those are bad and stuff. Should be a clear drop from the primer in the current piece of brass all the way to the floor for typical presses, or a drop into the tube if you have a tube/guide or something. Regardless, there should not BE anything for the pin to hit, and if there is, take a picture and ask about it here. My short & sweet tips to remain safe are 1) never force anything!! 2) optional, but use of a powder that will overflow the case if you use 2 charges of it, else be careful with the powder charges, 3) make sure each case has some powder in it before you poke in the bullet (prevents squib-> kaboom issues) and 4) use common sense (no fire/sparks/static around your explosives, dont eat the lead, keep one set of components out and the rest stored away, etc). New reloaders seem to be overly careful and do not have a lot of reported incidents. Its when you become used to it and less careful that stuff happens. A year into it, the thing I fear most is missing some error due to familiarity that I would have double checked a few months ago... I try to double check everything still but this is my fear.

[Dolomite_supafly]

What sizing dies are you using?

And one more tip on getting you brass clean, especially without a tumbler. Go to Walmart in the cleaning section. Look for some stuff called Lemishine, it is less than $2 and will last a long time. Add a teaspoon or two to enough hot water to cover all of your brass. Shake it up to disolve it good then pour it over your brass. Let it sit for a day and every time you think about it shake the container a little bit or swirl with your hand to mix things up a bit. The next day drain the container and do a couple of rinses with clean water. Then lay the brass out to dry for a day. Some brass mind turn a little pink, this is completely normal and will not hurt anything, ecept maybe your ego if you show up at the range with the pink brass for all your friends to see.

Dolomite

[BPE]

I'm using Lee Carbine dies for all calibers on my Lee press. I hear that other manufacturers are preferred by those who reload often but this was a nice starter set for me and the one stage process is perfect, I feel, for keeping me under control and not prone to rush.

Thanks for the additional tip. May try it out once to say I did it but I already have the tumbler. I did notice tonight that some brass that was not sized prior to cleaning was more prone to having media lodged inside. A quick shot from the air compressor fixed that though. Using crushed walnuts.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I use mostly Lee stuff and never had any issues. I also use a single stage for the majority of my loading. I loaded about 300 45 ACP on my single stage the other day. It was just easier than changing the calibers on my progressive. I use the single stage when precision is the name of the game. I know a progressive can be as precise but it is about me feeling good about it. I prime my precision reloads on my single stage using a top mounted tool. I can set the primer depth to all one height. It is similar to their Ram Prime but allows you to use a tray to feed the primers.

The only thing I do not like about the Lee carbide dies is their decapping system. It is a slip fit and it can give way if you have crimped primers. Other than that their dies are as good as any others. I especially like their collect neck sizing die for rifle calibers. It is the easiest to setup and works very, very well. I also use a Redding body die along with the neck sizing die to bump the body back into shape when I need to.

One more tip for you. As far as media goes use walnut, cleans quicker than corncob and for me cleaning is more important than looks. Go to a pet supply store and buy the Zilla brand lizard litter. Make sure it is the desert blend. The reason is it is very fine walnut media. It does not get stuck in the flash holes of the deprimed cases. It also cleans very well and if you add a squirt of car polish to it your brass will come out very nice. Make sure you add the polish about 15 minutes before added the cases or you might get a glob stuck inside a case. And it is cheap at $7 for a 10 pound bag.

Which Lee Press do you have? I have had the Lee Breechlock and it was a good press for the money. It is what I started out on. After several thousand rounds I went to a Classic Cast with the Hornady Lock-N-Load conversion. It is similar to the Breechlock setup but is much, much easier to use.

Have you bought your powder? Which powder are you using?

I like Lee because anytime I have had an issue they took care of it. The only thing I do not like is their new XR hand primer. It is a pain to use. Luckily I still have an older Auto Prime hand primer so that is what I use when I have to hand prime.

Dolomite

[dlm37015]

i like lee dies as well.i sell them at least 30-1 over anything else.i live near and have a bunch of tumblers that were returns to a large mail order house i bought at auction if you wll come pick it up you can have one i have about 20