Is a MAC reall worth it?

[Caster]

Another thing to think about. What "device" company comes close to the the "iPad, iPhone, iPod"? Oh they try...... The only thing they can do is create a reasonable facsimile....a copy at best.

Personally, I think Mac has alien (true ET) technology. Funny how they innovate the craziest stuff first....but that's just a wild conspiracy theory.

[Jonnin]

Mac is overpriced and brings little to the table. Hard core fans are going to tell you their preferred system is better but every example of "better" is either a lie, a personal preference, a misunderstanding, or a small feature that actually is better but is countered by some feature on the other system type that is better. Both are fine for a typical user, able to do gaming, word processing, internet, and so on without much difficulty. But you wait for it, some mac user (sorry, but they do have a reputation for this) will get on here to talk about how a poorly maintained windows system crashes or how a $300 walmart system does not have good graphics (buy a graphics card if you want graphics, or not if you do not, its a choice) or how some doofus who has 100000 viruses and malwares running has an unstable or slow system. A windows system requires the user to maintain it, so does a unix or mac system. Take the above post... "blue screen of what" .... my pc has not bluescreen failed in years, has only crashed a time or two this year and without the bluescreen (from bad third party software including a beta game). Its a misrepresentation, macs do not blue screen, that is the window's approach, instead they have a different looking crash screen. Does the color of the screen *really* matter when the machine crashes?! Or note how its ok for mac to virutal machine to run software that is not available on a mac (this is a common problem...) but somehow a windows machine with a virutal unix box is no good or impossible?? Of course windows users can fire up a unix VM or use cygwin command line tools (or dual boot). And, cygwin is freeware, linux is freeware, but when a mac user has a VM system running the windows OS, well, a lot of them "forget" to pay for the copy of windows and the copy of the software being used..... Not all users, but many pirate the windows to use in a VM. Note I am not saying windows is better. Let me stress that both can make a good or a poor system depending on what is needed and what is bought. Neither one is better than the other overall, they are just very different. But you should beware folks in either camp that claim their snake oil is better.... no matter what you choose, educate yourself on how to maintain that system, both the hardware and the software and the OS, so you can enjoy your new computer at its best every day.

[mikegideon]

WOW you all have given me a lot to think about. Thanks for staying on topic with such a touchy subject.

It's an old, and very valid debate. I was beating the Mac drum as loud as anybody here before WyattEarp was a sperm cell. I even have a couple of Macbooks in my department, and I approved the purchases. They're even used for IT support on Microsoft stuff.

With all that said, I live in a Microsoft world. My company has tens of thousands of Microsoft PC's on thier network. All the file and mail servers are Microsoft as well. The business world in general, is Microsoft. I'm stuck with it. You may be too if you find yourself in that world.

[Jonnin]

Oh and I am not sure dell counts. They add a premium as well, for their service agreements and brand name, or used to (?). I won't buy from them, I didnt accept the apology where they refused to sell to a gun shop a few years back and only backed down when it became bad PR. As far as the IPOD goes... my creative labs mp3 player has worked for a decade now and I can copy files off and onto it without dealing with any sort of frustration, something the same generation of ipod would not allow due to apple's heavy handed software.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jonnin

[Guest nicemac]

Let's see, creative labs mp3 player has sold how many units compared to the iPod? People vote with their dollars. The iPod changed the way people listen to music, because it was simple and it "just works."

I do not try to evangelize for Apple. I do not sell Apple products and make no money form anyone buying them. But I do recognize quality when I see it. And when asked my opinion, I give it.

iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook; Every one of these devices are best-in-class.

In the server room? Apple is not king of the hill in there. Go Linux. On the Desktop? In your pocket? The Mac is almost always the best choice.

Edited September 16, 2011 by nicemac

[G27]

If you don't like the 'closed wall' aspect of Mac's design, just say so. No problem. It's not everything for everyone.

But to claim Mac's aren't more reliable and better built is ludicrous. There's a reason I can still sell my 3+ year old Macbook for half of what I bought it for new. I also have several 12+ year old G4's running 24/7 as servers with zero issues - this sort of longevity is rather common with Macs, it's quite rare with PCs.

I use both every day, am very familiar with both platforms and quite frankly, in my opinion, Macs are just easier to use for a majority of common uses.

Again, if you don't like Apple's philosophy, that's perfectly fine. But don't let it bias your attitude towards the products.

[Guest uzzi]

Gentlemen-

Apple computers are far superior in many ways. First of all, Macs are designed to work the way people want computers to work. For example, when you buy a mac, you get a suite of apps called iLife that have picture management programs, iTunes, iMovie, garage band and so much more. What do you get with Windows? Paint. You load up your picutres in iPhoto, it organizes them by EVENT and there is even a little button to upload it in Facebook. Just an example of how a Mac is designed to work the way people want to use computers. It comes with a built in camera you can use for video chatting, Face time or just for recording yourself. Most new PCs do as well, but only after losing market share.

Windows - you must by additional virus software to keep it "safe." Mac - you don't have to. I always hear about the phantom mac viruses that are out there but have never heard or met anyone affected by one. We all know someone who's computer has been blown up by a virus. This is an extra cost to you and greatly affects performance.

If you get a Mac laptop (either MacBook or MacBook Pro) you get the most awesome touch pad that is capable of "multi expressions" meaning you can do more than just click. You can scroll, swipe, zoom in on any program on the screen and much more.

Fit, finish and quality - can't be rivaled by a plastic PC. Yes, Macs are expensive - but it is the highest of quality. Sure you can get a Windows laptop for half the price, but it comes with no software, is virus prone and in my view sub-par.

[mikegideon]

If you don't like the 'closed wall' aspect of Mac's design, just say so. No problem. It's not everything for everyone.

But to claim Mac's aren't more reliable and better built is ludicrous. There's a reason I can still sell my 3+ year old Macbook for half of what I bought it for new. I also have several 12+ year old G4's running 24/7 as servers with zero issues - this sort of longevity is rather common with Macs, it's quite rare with PCs.

I use both every day, am very familiar with both platforms and quite frankly, in my opinion, Macs are just easier to use for a majority of common uses.

Again, if you don't like Apple's philosophy, that's perfectly fine. But don't let it bias your attitude towards the products.

Macs ARE better in a lot of ways. The reason I abandoned the platform was simply that it's not the platform my industry uses. Your industry uses Macs, but it's one of the few.

If I had the ability to seperate my personal machine(s) from business, I would probaby still use a Mac. I spend a large portion of my working life on a computer, and it has to be seamlessly integrated with my world.

[Guest nicemac]

As more and more applications and services move to the cloud, this becomes less and less of an issue. Many apps today are simply web front ends that could care less what OS is accessing it.

[mikegideon]

As more and more applications and services move to the cloud, this becomes less and less of an issue. Many apps today are simply web front ends that could care less what OS is accessing it.

My company won't be moving to the cloud. Some of our systems are cloud-like, but the data lives on our secure servers. The entire company is sitting behind a firewall. It all comes down to how a computer is going to be used. kinda like guns :-)

[Guest nicemac]

"Cloud" can refer to internal services as well. Many of our internal processes that used to be proprietary applications or databases (Lotus Notes for example) are now front-ended by a web interface.

[mikegideon]

"Cloud" can refer to internal services as well. Many of our internal processes that used to be proprietary applications or databases (Lotus Notes for example) are now front-ended by a web interface.

We've been doing some of that stuff for years with centralized databases. There are some things that don't require local horsepower, and a lot more that do.

[Jonnin]

We've been doing some of that stuff for years with centralized databases. There are some things that don't require local horsepower, and a lot more that do.

Its been done for decades. Long long ago we had a dumb terminal. They renamed this idea to "the cloud" and suddenly its new and cool and stuff. Spin doctors and wordsmiths can sell anything, I guess.

[Guest nicemac]

I see us headed back (quickly) to what was originally called a mainframe. Personally, I don't like it. I like to be in control of my data. I don't want it stored on somebody else's servers. There are just too many risks security-wise.

[LagerHead]

Mac is overpriced and brings little to the table. Hard core fans are going to tell you their preferred system is better but every example of "better" is either a lie, a personal preference, a misunderstanding, or a small feature that actually is better but is countered by some feature on the other system type that is better. Both are fine for a typical user, able to do gaming, word processing, internet, and so on without much difficulty. But you wait for it, some mac user (sorry, but they do have a reputation for this) will get on here to talk about how a poorly maintained windows system crashes or how a $300 walmart system does not have good graphics (buy a graphics card if you want graphics, or not if you do not, its a choice) or how some doofus who has 100000 viruses and malwares running has an unstable or slow system. A windows system requires the user to maintain it, so does a unix or mac system. Take the above post... "blue screen of what" .... my pc has not bluescreen failed in years, has only crashed a time or two this year and without the bluescreen (from bad third party software including a beta game). Its a misrepresentation, macs do not blue screen, that is the window's approach, instead they have a different looking crash screen. Does the color of the screen *really* matter when the machine crashes?! Or note how its ok for mac to virutal machine to run software that is not available on a mac (this is a common problem...) but somehow a windows machine with a virutal unix box is no good or impossible?? Of course windows users can fire up a unix VM or use cygwin command line tools (or dual boot). And, cygwin is freeware, linux is freeware, but when a mac user has a VM system running the windows OS, well, a lot of them "forget" to pay for the copy of windows and the copy of the software being used..... Not all users, but many pirate the windows to use in a VM. Note I am not saying windows is better. Let me stress that both can make a good or a poor system depending on what is needed and what is bought. Neither one is better than the other overall, they are just very different. But you should beware folks in either camp that claim their snake oil is better.... no matter what you choose, educate yourself on how to maintain that system, both the hardware and the software and the OS, so you can enjoy your new computer at its best every day.

You know how much time I spend maintaining my Mac? None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nichts. Nada. You know why? Because it works. It works every time I turn it on and it works the entire time I use it without fail or complaint. I have never had a PC in my almost 30 years of having computers in my home, that even came close. I wish I hadn't waited so long to get one, especially knowing years ago how much better they are. I have been a computer repair tech, a Windows system administrator, a network admin, I have done design for national and global networks, so I'm not just talking out my fourth point of contact. Windows sucks. That's all there is to it.

They used to have a saying in the motorcycle world (which is not so accurate today): "Harley: Making mechanics out of motorcyclists for 100 years." While today's Harley may not fit that description, today's Windows certainly does. "Windows: Making computer repair techs out of users for 30 years."

[G27]

Your industry uses Macs, but it's one of the few.

Ironically, in my segment of the industry, Windoze boxes have become the prevalent platform. My DAW is a Windoze box, so I'm reminded daily of just how much I'd prefer working on a Mac...

[Guest WyattEarp]

Real engineering work, in the real world. NOBODY is using Macs. I'm not so sure you need to be making those kinda comments until you get out of school.

i'll give you a pass on what you said, because you didn't specifically say there were no AutoCAD programs for mac, you did say no one is using them, and that might be very well true, but I'm sure some companies are using them, otherwise AutoDesk wouldn't be in business, they just may be far and few between. But it's an age old myth that you can't use CAD/CAM on a MAC or that there are no programs available for use with MAC. It's just the fact that the companies that use AutoCad/CAD/CAM programs are using software that only works on PC's.

Do you work in Engineering? Do you use any CAD systems or do any CAM programming? Do you have to set-up or use any communications with machine tools? Of course you don’t, or you wouldn’t have posted something like that.

Why would you even make a statement like that, which clearly shows you are clueless about the field? Because you did a Google search? Roll those eyes and check back with us when you get out of school and have some experience.

your exact words are and I quote "For example; if you are a heavy graphics user you might want a MAC, if you are a heavy CAD/CAM user you can’t use a MAC. "

obviously this is just flat out wrong. Maybe you intended to say "if you're an engineer and you use AutoCad, you might find it difficult to work for a company in the engineering sector since most prefer PC applications in terms of engineering and design software" then your point would have been very valid. but to say you "can't use a MAC if you use CAD/CAM" is just ignorant, cause I'd invite you over and start working in CAD the minute you got here just to prove you wrong.

No I don't work in Engineering, yes I use Autodesk AutoCad 2012, yes I use it on a MAC.

The whole "You don't need virus/ malware software" aspect is a bonus.

Apple customer service–#1 for how many years running now? (Six years in a row–J.D.Power)

There is a reason that Apple is the most highly valued company in the world, (and still growing rapidly in a market where other manufacturers are shrinking), that their customers are loyal, and that their products continually outperform the competition. They make great products that typically have no peer.

a common misconception is the "no virus/malware software", there have been viruses and trojans and other forms of malicious software floating about for MAC, though they are not widespread yet. As MAC usage and purchases become more commonplace, I suspect that will change, though I hope not. I don't run any on my machine, just a firewall, but so far no issues, then again, I don't spend my time downloading porn, opening emails from people I don't know or that appear suspicious, or spam like, or getting into unknown sites where there's a ton of advertisements, pop-ups or other suspicious activities (porn subscription offers, adultfriend finder type offers, dating site offers) which is where a lot of viruses/trojans/mal-ware/spyware originate from.

I use a firefox browser, with no script, ad block, and pop up blocker add-ons, and for the most part that seems to keep the little computer bugs at bay.

As far as the IPOD goes... my creative labs mp3 player has worked for a decade now and I can copy files off and onto it without dealing with any sort of frustration, something the same generation of ipod would not allow due to apple's heavy handed software.

i have an ipod, but I dread hooking it up to upload more music to it. I hate how it's set up, I don't know why they just couldn't make it to where you go the drive when you hook it up and copy and paste what you want. Seems like they took the longway home in order to do something that should be so simple. aside from that, i'm ok with the ipod, just getting music on and off of it is a pain in the butt, and I hate how you can only sync to one computer, otherwise it wipes everything off your ipod. I have a laptop and a desktop, I should be able to sync to either one without issue.

Mac is overpriced and brings little to the table. Hard core fans are going to tell you their preferred system is better but every example of "better" is either a lie, a personal preference, a misunderstanding, or a small feature that actually is better but is countered by some feature on the other system type that is better. Both are fine for a typical user, able to do gaming, word processing, internet, and so on without much difficulty. But you wait for it, some mac user (sorry, but they do have a reputation for this) will get on here to talk about how a poorly maintained windows system crashes or how a $300 walmart system does not have good graphics (buy a graphics card if you want graphics, or not if you do not, its a choice) or how some doofus who has 100000 viruses and malwares running has an unstable or slow system. A windows system requires the user to maintain it, so does a unix or mac system. Take the above post... "blue screen of what" .... my pc has not bluescreen failed in years, has only crashed a time or two this year and without the bluescreen (from bad third party software including a beta game). Its a misrepresentation, macs do not blue screen, that is the window's approach, instead they have a different looking crash screen. Does the color of the screen *really* matter when the machine crashes?! Or note how its ok for mac to virutal machine to run software that is not available on a mac (this is a common problem...) but somehow a windows machine with a virutal unix box is no good or impossible?? Of course windows users can fire up a unix VM or use cygwin command line tools (or dual boot). And, cygwin is freeware, linux is freeware, but when a mac user has a VM system running the windows OS, well, a lot of them "forget" to pay for the copy of windows and the copy of the software being used..... Not all users, but many pirate the windows to use in a VM. Note I am not saying windows is better. Let me stress that both can make a good or a poor system depending on what is needed and what is bought. Neither one is better than the other overall, they are just very different. But you should beware folks in either camp that claim their snake oil is better.... no matter what you choose, educate yourself on how to maintain that system, both the hardware and the software and the OS, so you can enjoy your new computer at its best every day.

as a Digital media Comm major, I heartily disagree with that statement. I could put a person who knows PC on a PC in a classroom with the standard Windows software that comes loaded on a new machine, and I could put a person who knows MAC on a MAC machine that's freshly loaded with it's standard MAC OS X software right next to them, give them the following assignments.

1.) Design a 2 page webpage

2.) edit a video and add text and subtitles and special effects

3.) touch up 10 photos (re-size, crop, color correction, adjust saturation, exposure, sharpness)

4.) Watch a DVD

and the MAC user will complete their tasks before the PC user is even halfway finished.

PC has Movie Maker, an outdated piece of software that gets a new splash screen, but hardly any new features and that is not very user friendly, and is difficult to learn.

MAC has iMOVIE, you can quickly and easily edit video, add text, title's, subtitles, and special effects quite rapidly and be done in a short amount of time, it's very user friendly.

Windows doesn't have a wysiwyg editor, so that user will be coding html in text editor

MAC has iWeb, a very user friendly wysiwyg editor, to efficiently and quickly make quality websites, even for the most computer challenged user, it's quite easy.

PC/Windows hardly if ever come with DVD codecs to play DVD's. It's supposed to and Windows claims it does, but none of the versions (Win7, Vista, XP, or 95) have ever come with the proper codecs. I've always had to download a stand alone DVD Player (PowerDVD, WinDVD) or go visit Microsoft's website and download the latest codecs just to play a DVD.

MAC comes with DVD Player on the MAC OS disc, just pop it and enjoy. Nothing to download, no updates, no visit this site and download a codec from that site, just sit back relax and enjoy.

Pretty tough to edit photos in Paint, very few features aside from re-sizing, cropping, and saving as a different images.

iPhoto comes in OS, lets you do all that, along with color correction, adding filters, organizing, effects etc.

On a MAC i can get lessons on how to play the guitar with Garage Band. Video instruction, plus it recognizes if my guitar is out of tune, and helps me tune it (please, show me a base or even a premium model PC that does that, and comes loaded in the OS....it's impossible, you can't, because it doesn't exist).

Windows blue screens, MAC's grey screen. Mine grey screened the other day, said I had to shut down and reboot, but that's because of my error, I tried to install something that wasn't compatible.

BSoD's on Windows are the result of poorly written drivers, application conflicts, hardware conflicts and poor user computer management (not defragging and scandisking, and no virus/malware protection), unorganized files and folders (basically just cluttering your desktop and my documents folders with junk and never cleaning them out), users who don't clear their internet cache files or their windows temp files (all of which slow a computer down horribly, whether or not it's PC or MAC). Fact is, BSoD's happen more on a PC, than they do on a MAC.

in the end it comes down to what the user enjoys most and is most comfortable.

The best piece of advice I can give to anyone wanting to try a mac, or thinking about making the switch, find a used one on craigslist or ebay thats a few years old for $500 or $600 but in good condition, play with it, learn it, explore it, get comfortable with it, and then if you like it, go buy the one that fits your needs. If not, turn around and sell it for what you bought it for, they hold their value very well, and you'll not be out a thing if you decide MAC is not for you.

Let's see, creative labs mp3 player has sold how many units compared to the iPod? People vote with their dollars. The iPod changed the way people listen to music, because it was simple and it "just works."

I do not try to evangelize for Apple. I do not sell Apple products and make no money form anyone buying them. But I do recognize quality when I see it. And when asked my opinion, I give it.

iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook; Every one of these devices are best-in-class.

In the server room? Apple is not king of the hill in there. Go Linux. On the Desktop? In your pocket? The Mac is almost always the best choice.

Another reason why ipad sales are dominating PC tablet sales.

Apple That » Blog Archive » iPad Still Dominating Tablet Sales, Though Android is Catching Up Fast

Gentlemen-

Apple computers are far superior in many ways. First of all, Macs are designed to work the way people want computers to work. For example, when you buy a mac, you get a suite of apps called iLife that have picture management programs, iTunes, iMovie, garage band and so much more. What do you get with Windows? Paint. You load up your picutres in iPhoto, it organizes them by EVENT and there is even a little button to upload it in Facebook. Just an example of how a Mac is designed to work the way people want to use computers. It comes with a built in camera you can use for video chatting, Face time or just for recording yourself. Most new PCs do as well, but only after losing market share.

Windows - you must by additional virus software to keep it "safe." Mac - you don't have to. I always hear about the phantom mac viruses that are out there but have never heard or met anyone affected by one. We all know someone who's computer has been blown up by a virus. This is an extra cost to you and greatly affects performance.

If you get a Mac laptop (either MacBook or MacBook Pro) you get the most awesome touch pad that is capable of "multi expressions" meaning you can do more than just click. You can scroll, swipe, zoom in on any program on the screen and much more.

Fit, finish and quality - can't be rivaled by a plastic PC. Yes, Macs are expensive - but it is the highest of quality. Sure you can get a Windows laptop for half the price, but it comes with no software, is virus prone and in my view sub-par.

great post.

[G27]

[mikegideon]

Damn Mr. Earp... I'm not even gonna try to bust up that post . AutoCad cam from the DOS world. It was around forever before it was available on the Mac. FWIW, my original electronic design software (schematic capture and PCB design) was MacCad. I ran it on the Mac for years until M$oft could come up with a decent GUI. I still use it, but I use the Windows version so it can live on the same box as my other stuff.

The business world NEVER bought into the Mac. I was an expert on Excel before the business community picked up on it because PC's wouldn't run it for the first several years it was out. I fought the battle and lost.

[mikegideon]

Ironically, in my segment of the industry, Windoze boxes have become the prevalent platform. My DAW is a Windoze box, so I'm reminded daily of just how much I'd prefer working on a Mac...

Protools is still pretty much Mac driven, correct? I assume you're using something like Sadie. Last project I witnessed was on a sadie box.

[KahrMan]

That about sums it up.

[G27]

Protools is still pretty much Mac driven, correct? I assume you're using something like Sadie. Last project I witnessed was on a sadie box.

Yah, on the recording / mixing side, PT and Logic rule the earth. In mastering, it's Sequoia (what I use) Sadie, even Wavelab and a few others (all PC) - there aren't any solid solutions in the Mac realm that can compete with something like Sequoia. PT isn't a mastering platform though some guys use it for processing and editing, but it can't create production masters...

[Guest nicemac]

Viruses. The post above alludes to "not many yet, but hey will come soon, etc…"

Security through obscurity is a myth. There are over 50 million Macs in service right now in the US. 50 million. And Apple is selling around 5 million more per quarter. That is not a small number. Windows XP had its first virus appear in the wild when there were only 14,000 beta testers. 14,000 is 1/3571 of 50,000,000. There is a huge bullseye on Apple and if you were a hacker, wouldn't you want to be the guy who showed Apple it could be done?

We have Symantec Anti Virus (SEP) in house for our pcs. I looked at the Mac piece earlier this year.

There were 76,000 virus definitions in the package at the time. Three of them were for the Mac. THREE. All three were "proof of concept" viruses that have never circulated and had a threat rating of "lowest." Of the three, the newest one was from 2004.

It's UNIX. It is secure and no, you don't need anti-virus software for your Mac.

[mikegideon]

Yah, on the recording / mixing side, PT and Logic rule the earth. In mastering, it's Sequoia (what I use) Sadie, even Wavelab and a few others (all PC) - there aren't any solid solutions in the Mac realm that can compete with something like Sequoia. PT isn't a mastering platform though some guys use it for processing and editing, but it can't create production masters...

Garage Band will do it, and it comes with the box

[Guest bkelm18]

Classic.