What do you do?

[wcsc12]

I didn't see the video the first I saw this but OMG. Screw what I said earlier, I don't know if I would have drawn but I would have damn sure got involved with that. I mean, the dude recording this is screaming "she's having a seizure" at the end while still doing nothing. I mean, I understand that self preservation is natural but defending someone who obviously needs it should be natural as well.

[Erik88]

This thread has given me a bit to think about regarding the use of force continuum. I don't currently carry pepper spray but I think I might start. If nothing else just to have some when I'm on school property instead of being completely defenseless.

this is what I did when at UT. And I still carry pepper spray every day. Saber makes a really small container than I carry in my front pocket. I consider it to be just as important as my firearm honestly.

[LagerHead]

Not sure what I would do in that situation but I worked in Mc D's all thru high school. When I was 17 one of the female employees husbands came to the counter to continue a domestic dispute with his wife. It got loud and she walked away towards the back thru the kitchen. The husband followed her and started beating her. I was on the other side of the kitchen and was astonished that everyone nearby except the one smallest female worker were just watching her get beat on the ground. He just threw her across the room and continued his attack. I had to push my way thru the bystanders to help out. I was no match for the huge man who had his wife pinned on the ground but I had to do something. I grabbed him from behind and carried him in a bear hug out to the lobby and would not let him pass me while I was able to stand. He tried to move me aside a couple of times but I stood my ground and he ran off. I was scared to death but I had to do something, anything.

That took some major cajones. You should be proud.

Its sad but in the US today the best thing you can do is just stand back & record it. If you try to intervene you can end up being sued by someone for something & even if you didnt do anything wrong you will probably have to spend an assload of money just to defend yourself. The only thing you cant get sued for in today's world is if you do nothing. Thankfully there are no laws (yet) that compel you to act in these situations.

I'll take the hard, dangerous right over the easy, safe wrong every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Stepping in once the girl was on the ground is the right thing to do regardless of who started it and over what. Courage is both doing what's right when nobody is watching and doing what's right knowing it could turn out worse for you than anyone else.

[maddog909]

Have to agree with you Paddywak, really don't know the circumstances here. The employees should have shut it down and I see no reason to pull a weapon out......damn. women can be mean critters.

[southernasylum]

That took some major cajones. You should be proud.

Nah, it was a long time ago. I chalk it up to young and stupid but I'm glad it turned out ok. I think I went and vomited in the bathroom afterward. I started carrying a knife to work after that, not that I knew how to use it.

[chances R]

Disparity of force, a clear victim, and a continued attack all scream for intervention. Any altercation is potentially a serious bodily threat; if not deadly. All it takes is ONE blow to the head, either directly by the punch or by hitting your head on the ground. This video is clear on that point. See a girl in seizures for proof. To me there is no question that when there was an obvious victim it would be time to step in. IMO, if the threat was not stopped it wouldn't bother me to pull my weapon. I agree with Lumberjack; do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.

[BigK]

I understand some peoples' problems with exposure to liability/suit, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't step in to help the victim here. If that poor girl ended up permanently disabled or dead because I stood idly by while 2 girls way bigger than her stomped her in the head like that, I'd never sleep restfully again. Maybe it's because I have a daughter about that age, who knows?,

I warned my kids that there are people out there with no fear of consequences for their actions. They are the most dangerous people of all.

[Guest WyattEarp]

wouldn't have drawn my weapon, but I'd have punched both of those thunder ****s in the mouth, grabbed them by the hair, dragged their asses outside into the parking lot and kicked both of their asses. and if I went to jail for it, I wouldn't have given a damn.

there's absolutely no reason whatsoever those employees stood by and allowed that to happen. I don't know what the law saws about defending someone else in the state this took place in, but hopefully that poor victim gets a good attorney and sues the hell out of McDonald's for not intervening. Those 2 girls would surely have killed her if allowed to continue beating on her.

****ing animals. pick on someone just because they're different. I don't know why everyone else just can't leave everyone alone and let them be.

[Patton]

Not that it really matters, but does anyone else recall hearing that the "victim" was a tranny?

[Guest Broomhead]

Not that it really matters, but does anyone else recall hearing that the "victim" was a tranny?

You're right, it doesn't matter. It makes no difference. A victim is a victim, a fellow human being. I remember hearing that, and still stand by what I posted earlier.

[Guest BCMFAN]

The victim is trans-gender. The two attackers were convicted of a hate crime. The victim has filed a lawsuit against McDonalds.

[pattywak]

Whoah, I had no idea about the backstory. This changes things a little. If the attack was clearly shown as something going on on the grounds of a hate crime, then I would feel more compelled to do something about it. And yes, I think the lawsuit against McDonalds is a good idea for the victim.

[Guest Red5]

This changes things a little. If the attack was clearly shown as something going on on the grounds of a hate crime, then I would feel more compelled to do something about it.

Why?

I've never gotten the concept of the hate crime label. If you decide dish out a repeated, unwarranted beat down on someone (especially 3 on 1), then you should be punished. I don't care about your motivation.

One of my problems with our legal system is not the lack of laws, but the lack of punishment when you break said laws. I'm all for due process and innocent until proven, but once you are proven guilty, punishment should be swift and severe. I will go out on a limb and say that if some thug knew that once he was convicted of assault, B&E, robbery, etc. he (or in this case she) would have their happy ass caned in the town square, they may think twice to begin with. It would go a lot farther in preventing crime than simply making an already illegal action more illegal.

[Fallguy]

Why is everyone wanting sue McDonald's? What is you feel they did or didn't do? I mean if the police have no legal duty to protect you, how can you expect an employee of a place you are in to have a duty to protect you?

A business being held responsible for the actions of its patrons is one reason many places post. If we (HCP holders) shoot someone in there place they don't want to be sued for not banning firearms.

As far as hate crimes go...I'm with Red5...if someone commits a crime against someone, does it really matter what their motivation was?

[Lumber_Jack]

Why is everyone wanting sue McDonald's? What is you feel they did or didn't do? I mean if the police have no legal duty to protect you, how can you expect an employee of a place you are in to have a duty to protect you?

A business being held responsible for the actions of its patrons is one reason many places post. If we (HCP holders) shoot someone in there place they don't want to be sued for not banning firearms.

As far as hate crimes go...I'm with Red5...if someone commits a crime against someone, does it really matter what their motivation was?

Agree 100%

I see absolutely no negligence on the part of McDonalds. What are they supposed to do, post armed guards at every store?

[pattywak]

Why?

I've never gotten the concept of the hate crime label. If you decide dish out a repeated, unwarranted beat down on someone (especially 3 on 1), then you should be punished. I don't care about your motivation.

Well, my whole point was that before I knew that this was clearly 2 people who were attacking the victim for no reason other than the fact that she was transgendered, I had no idea what the situation in the video was showing. It could have been that the "victim" may have attacked one of the attackers before hand, and they were retaliating in defense. My point being, I just didn't know what the circumstances were. Crime should be punished, I agree with you completely there.

It's like if you watch a video, and all that is shown is someone shooting another person dead. People will be quick to assume, Oh that is a crazy criminal who just killed that innocent man! I've learned that there's always certain motivations behind acts, and you shouldn't draw final conclusions until you know the situation. At least that's how I think. The whole video may have actually been a man was attacking another person, and that guy was a legal HCP holder, drew his gun and shot the other guy in self defense. Knowing the whole story changes people's perspectives, that's all I'm trying to say.

[zapfbroad]

This disgusts me. Long before the old woman got involved or the seizures started I would have waded in with no knowledge of the back story aside from what I could see at the time and proceeded to BEAT the hell out of the hoodrats and demonstrate to them quickly what an asswhoopin looks like and it doesn't involved hair pulling. I hate girl fights. Two on one? I try to avoid places that altercations "normally" occur but obviously it can happen anywhere. It's not McDonalds fault, it's every man who stood there's fault. What if that had been their sister in some other state? How would they feel if they were the family that has to help take care of her now. Sometimes it's just a matter of principle. I had a homeless, drunk guy come into my store bout 5 years back and he spit on an older woman that hadn't even noticed him approaching. We discussed it further outside...

[Guest WyattEarp]

The victim is trans-gender. The two attackers were convicted of a hate crime. The victim has filed a lawsuit against McDonalds.

I find the whole hate crime title amusing. If you're committing a violent crime against someone, isn't that hateful anyhow? person on person violence is hate, no matter their color, sexual orientation, gender, ethnicity, religion or whatever.

but it's interesting, I have yet to hear of a "hate crime" ever being committed against a heterosexual white male or female....just some food for thought.