Handgun Transfer

[A.J. Holst]

I currently have a handgun on loan from a GA. resident for sporting purposes.

I am now redy to take possession of said handgun.

Is it as simple as taking the bll of sale and handgun to a TN FFL?

If so, any recommendations for an FFL in the Knox area?

Thanks.

[monkeylizard]

No. Technically the FFL has to be the middle man in between the buyer and the seller (or giver and giftee if you're lucky ). So the gun has to be returned to the current GA owner, then delivered to a TN FFL (either personally by him/her, or via courier/mail). The FFL will do the paperwork and then you can get the handgun from the FFL.

If the GA resident is coming up for a visit some time, you could continue to hold on to it as a "loaner" until that happens. Then you both can take it to a local TN FFL for the transfer.

[peejman]

^ correct.

I believe the current owner must have his FFL send the pistol to your FFL for transfer.

As for a local FFL, I've had good experiences with Bill's Outpost in Maryville. Home - Bill's Outpost

[Jonnin]

The big question here is "can you legally deliver it to the FFL as a courier for the seller". You want to find out from some legal expert if there is any way you can perform that function instead of UPS or Fedex or whatever at the seller's request. From there, the seller would contact your FFL to tell them it is coming, then you deliver it. Then you pick it back up after they log it into their books, and its golden. IFF you can find a way to play delivery boy legally.

[dralarms]

The big question here is "can you legally deliver it to the FFL as a courier for the seller". You want to find out from some legal expert if there is any way you can perform that function instead of UPS or Fedex or whatever at the seller's request. From there, the seller would contact your FFL to tell them it is coming, then you deliver it. Then you pick it back up after they log it into their books, and its golden. IFF you can find a way to play delivery boy legally.

Yes, you can, as the owner, bring it into the state and then "sell or transfer" to a local resident through a FFL.

[monkeylizard]

Right, but what the OP is about is if the buyer can be the courier, not the seller. There may be legal ways to do it, but it certainly goes against the spirit of the law, which is to keep the firearm out of the buyer's hands until the proper paperwork is done.

[Guest bkelm18]

I believe the current owner must have his FFL send the pistol to your FFL for transfer.

Not really. Both the buyer and seller can meet at an FFL in TN. The seller transfers the firearm to the FFL, then the FFL transfers it to the buy. Now as to the legalities of the seller actually having to be present, I don't know. My guess would be the seller has to be present. The act of taking the gun and bill of sale to the FFL yourself (as the OP is asking) means that the sale has already occurred, meaning the out of state resident transferred ownership of the handgun directly to a resident of another state, which is illegal.

[peejman]

Not really. Both the buyer and seller can meet at an FFL in TN. The seller transfers the firearm to the FFL, then the FFL transfers it to the buy. Now as to the legalities of the seller actually having to be present, I don't know. My guess would be the seller has to be present. The act of taking the gun and bill of sale to the FFL yourself (as the OP is asking) means that the sale has already occurred, meaning the out of state resident transferred ownership of the handgun directly to a resident of another state, which is illegal.

That's basically what I meant. The person in GA would have to send the gun to a TN FFL who accepts firearms from individuals or have a GA FFL send it.

I don't think he can go to GA and take possession of the gun there. I believe the GA FFL would have to send it to a TN FFL.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

[Guest bkelm18]

That's basically what I meant. The person in GA would have to send the gun to a TN FFL who accepts firearms from individuals or have a GA FFL send it.

I don't think he can go to GA and take possession of the gun there. I believe the GA FFL would have to send it to a TN FFL.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Right, the seller can either send the gun to a TN FFL or the seller can meet the buyer at a TN FFL.

[TGO David]

^ correct.

No, the person out of state can ship the firearm to a FFL holder in the state of the recipient without going through an FFL in his/her own state. It's just sometimes easier to have an FFL do both sides of the shipping process because UPS and FedEx equally seem inept and inexperienced when it comes to handling personal shipping of firearms and do not care to be versed in the law, which can cause a hassle at the counter.

[Jonnin]

An individual can send a gun to an FFL without his own FFL, though. Its quite legal for example for me to ship my gun to the manufacturer for service via UPS, as the manufacturer has a type of FFL (has to, to make guns!). And while I looked it was simply unclear (as legal crap usually is) as to HOW the gun gets to the FFL for the transfer to happen. In other news, its quite legal to loan a firearm to another person under various conditions but I do not know if what has been done so far (long term/overnight, out of state loan?) violates any rules. As far as I know if I sold gun on an auction site I could also ship directly to a FFL for the buyer. As far as the spirit of the law thing, so long as the gun is passed thru the FFL eventually, it conforms to the spirit of the law as the background check is performed, the tax paid, the gun numbers ran to check for stolen, etc. I see nothing wrong with what is happening here -- its a simple try before you buy deal not any sort of attempt to bypass any laws. He is clearly trying to get it right without paying $100 in shipping to get right back where it started from.

[Guest bkelm18]

An individual can send a gun to an FFL without his own FFL, though. Its quite legal for example for me to ship my gun to the manufacturer for service via UPS, as the manufacturer has a type of FFL (has to, to make guns!). And while I looked it was simply unclear (as legal crap usually is) as to HOW the gun gets to the FFL for the transfer to happen. In other news, its quite legal to loan a firearm to another person under various conditions but I do not know if what has been done so far (long term/overnight, out of state loan?) violates any rules. As far as I know if I sold gun on an auction site I could also ship directly to a FFL for the buyer. As far as the spirit of the law thing, so long as the gun is passed thru the FFL eventually, it conforms to the spirit of the law as the background check is performed, the tax paid, the gun numbers ran to check for stolen, etc. I see nothing wrong with what is happening here -- its a simple try before you buy deal not any sort of attempt to bypass any laws. He is clearly trying to get it right without paying $100 in shipping to get right back where it started from.

So what's the time frame of getting the gun to the FFL after the transaction has occurred? A day... a week... a year? When does it go from "legal" to transfer ownership of the gun to "illegal"? I still say the buyer can't take the gun and the bill of sale to the FFL by himself. IMO. Definitely something you want to find out for sure before doing it. A call to the ATF may be in order.

[Jonnin]

The time frame is whenever the legal borrowing of the firearm ends and ownership begins --- that would be when money changes hands IMHO. Expert advice is absolutely needed, to get it right, but looking at the firearms laws of TN and the USA, I do not see anything that prevents this man from acting as a shipper at the request of the owner to get the gun from one place to another. The letter of the law is sufficient, and I would respect the law more but according to the BAFTE (or whatever the letters are now) its quite legal for us to sell guns to criminals living in another country, so selling them across state lines should be no problem at all. The bill of sale SHOULD be faxed from the owner to the FFL. The guy in GA MUST contact the ffl.

[monkeylizard]

Be sure to start the call to the ATF with "Um...I have this friend..."

[Jonnin]

Be sure to start the call to the ATF with "Um...I have this friend..."

I have this wealthy friend in mexico who wants my uzi, I loaned it to him to try out and he wants to buy it now for some sort of shooting sport called "termino de patrolos bordoros" or something. Can he just pay me now or does he need to get one directly from you guys?

[A.J. Holst]

Thanks for all the feedback and yes, we were trying to figure out how to avoid the shipping charge as my buddy won't be able to travel to TN before heading back to Afghanistan.

I am heading down this weekend to visit before he heads out and have an opportunity to participate in my first IDPA event on Sunday so I am pretty excited about the trip.

His gunshop will ship back to TN for $40.00 so it's a pretty good deal, but if I could save the $40...

(I will call Bill's Outpost tomorrow to see if they would be OK with a BoS faxed)

Edited September 14, 2011 by Gotthegoods

[peejman]

Why not just let it remain "on loan for sporting purposes" until the formal transfer can be made at a mutually convenient time.

[JeffsSig]

The FFLs I use will accept guns from out of state with a copy of the sellers drivers license ( to show who they revived the gun from)

No matter how its get to the shop. By UPS USPS FEDX or me carrying the gun in. Once the background check runs the gun is then mine. No bill of sale involved.

[A.J. Holst]

I took the advice of calling the ATF Knoxville Field Office; this is how it was explained to me by the agent I spoke to:

The GA-resident owner CAN travel to TN and in the presence of a TN FFL, sell / gift the handgun to the TN resident

OR

The handgun must be legally shipped to a TN FFL

[southernasylum]

I have this wealthy friend in mexico who wants my uzi, I loaned it to him to try out and he wants to buy it now for some sort of shooting sport called "termino de patrolos bordoros" or something. Can he just pay me now or does he need to get one directly from you guys?

That's the funniest thing I've read today! I lol'd.