Which optics or scope is better for AR15?

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Just purchased a AR15 and would like to find a reliable and not too expensive optics or scope for it....don't know much about those. Any recommendations?

[Jon_L]

What do you want to do with it? (Hunting, home defense, competition, etc.)

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Mainly target shooting and home defense. A good SHTF gun basically.

I got the DPMS panther Oracle 16 .223.

[Jon_L]

A nice red-dot would do well, but I bought a Millet DMS-1 for my wife's SHTF AR, but I plan to use a Vortex SPARC on mine. Both would work well for self-defense/SHTF.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Personally I like red dots that change dot intensity automatically. Makes things easier if you are going from a dark area to a light area or if you are in a dark area and turn the lights on. I have a couple that are reasonably priced for what they are. If you are planning on anything over 100 yards you might also consider a low powered optic.

As far as red dots go I have tried a lot of different kinds and narrowed my own selection down to a couple, the Fast Fire and the Zoom Dot. The Zoom Dot was the same cost as the Aimpoint when I bought it. I could have easily just bought an Aimpoint but I was looking for something different and perhaps cutting edge.

The Burris FastFire is one I own and I like it because it works really well. It has a switch to turn it off when not in use. It is small and light weight. You will need to use a riser of some sort ot get it to a comfortable height on an AR. It automatically adjusts to ambient light on the fly. It uses a 2032 battery. Battery life has been great so far. Sometimes I remember to turn it off and sometimes it will sit for days or even weeks in the on position. I bought it in 2008 and I have been on my second battery for two years now. There are several high end makers of the mini red dots. And as long as you get a quality one you aren't going to have issues. One thing I will say is the Burris is it is an all metal sight with glass lenses while others use plastic housings and even palstic lenses. The new ones are even waterproof.

I also own a MIllet Zoom Dot (now Burris makes them). It is also a sight that automatically adjusts to ambient light conditions. The knob changes the dot size from miniscule to 10 MOA. It takes Aimpoint batteries or two LR76 types stacked. Battery life in the on position in a well lit area is about 1300 hours. It can be turned off using the knob to extend the abttery life. It is about the same size as an Aimpoint and in all honesty I like it better than the Aimpoints I have used. The Zoom Dot gives you an adjustable dot size and automatically adjusts to ambient light, the Aimpoint does neither. It uses a solid state circuit wafer that is user replaceable if you need to. It has no wires to work loose. The only bad thing was that it isn't NV capable. Not that big of a deal over here but overseas, where I used mine, it was.

Aimpoints are the standard for red dots or at least have been for a very long time. The biggest advantage to Aimpoints is battery life which can be measured in years. But they are not without their problems either. Moisture in the battery compartment of an Aimpoint can cause issues. There have been reports of the wire connections working loose from recoil but I am sure those are on heavily used ones. The other bad point is there are a lot of fakes out there. Some fakes are really well made while others are nothing but junk. I had a fakepoint that I bought to try out. It lasted thousands of rounds on an AR and never failed in any way.

Here is a good run down of spotting a fakepoint:

How to recognize a fake Aimpoint. - AR15.COM

I have used a lot of Eotechs over the years. Battery life is miserable compared to most others in the same price range. In the off position the batteries last only a few months. In the on position it is much worse. One good thing about the Eotech is they automatically turn themselves off. When they work they work well and I liked the reticle for use with night vision better than anything else I have found. Some bad things I have witnessed is they will shut off and never come back on even with a battery change. I have seen some that we could never get zeroed or that would loose zero for no reason. And as with the Aimpoint there are fakes out there. There are a few give aways for fake Eotechs. First is they only came with a red reticle, if they have any other colors they are fake. Second is the red light shouldn't be visible other than the reticle itself.

Here is a good break down of how to spot a fake Eotech:

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/Recognizing counterfeit EOTech Sights 4-09.pdf

Do not buy any of the NCStar mini red dots. I have tried a couple over the years and they all were the same. Battery life measured in days. The glass cracked on one and fell out on another. They are not worth the $50 most sell for. And that price applies to any other brands as well. If you are not spending at least $100 on any of the mini red dot offering s out there it is going to be a piece of junk. For tube type red dot sights it is possible to get a decent one for under $100 but there are few that I would trust my life with.

And let me give you this. If the weapon may be called upon to save a life get a decent optic. That doesn't mean you have to spend $500 but don't try to skimp on optics. The Vortex products seem to have a big following and there is a reason why. Used Aimpoints can be found for $250 but for $250 I would get something else. I wouldn't consider and Eotech if the weapon might sit for periods of weeks or months then have to be called into action.

And finally do not rely soley on your optic, whatever it may be. Get some irons and install them. Magpul makes some nice, reasonably price polymer sights if you have a quad rail forend or a front sight. But because all you have is a railed gas block the MagPul sights won't line up or even hold up to the heat of firing. In that case you probaby need to get a metal front sight to go on your railed gas block. Once you do that just get any rear sight you like.

Dolomite

[gregintenn]

I don't care for ARs, but my father ha a Colt HBAR Match, and he mounted a 2x7 Leupold Rifleman on it with good results.

[bigwakes]

I have always loved Eotechs. There happens to be an awesome guy selling some in the gear classified section.

Legal disclaimer: Awesome guy mentioned above is me.

[Rightwinger]

Leupold Mark AR 3 - 9x. No regrets.

[bigwakes]

Leupold Mark AR 3 - 9x. No regrets.

I have the Mark AR 3-9 on the wife's AR. Great scope for the money.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Personally I like red dots that change dot intensity automatically. Makes things easier if you are going from a dark area to a light area or if you are in a dark area and turn the lights on. I have a couple that are reasonably priced for what they are. If you are planning on anything over 100 yards you might also consider a low powered optic.

As far as red dots go I have tried a lot of different kinds and narrowed my own selection down to a couple, the Fast Fire and the Zoom Dot. The Zoom Dot was the same cost as the Aimpoint when I bought it. I could have easily just bought an Aimpoint but I was looking for something different and perhaps cutting edge.

The Burris FastFire is one I own and I like it because it works really well. It has a switch to turn it off when not in use. It is small and light weight. You will need to use a riser of some sort ot get it to a comfortable height on an AR. It automatically adjusts to ambient light on the fly. It uses a 2032 battery. Battery life has been great so far. Sometimes I remember to turn it off and sometimes it will sit for days or even weeks in the on position. I bought it in 2008 and I have been on my second battery for two years now. There are several high end makers of the mini red dots. And as long as you get a quality one you aren't going to have issues. One thing I will say is the Burris is it is an all metal sight with glass lenses while others use plastic housings and even palstic lenses. The new ones are even waterproof.

I also own a MIllet Zoom Dot (now Burris makes them). It is also a sight that automatically adjusts to ambient light conditions. The knob changes the dot size from miniscule to 10 MOA. It takes Aimpoint batteries or two LR76 types stacked. Battery life in the on position in a well lit area is about 1300 hours. It can be turned off using the knob to extend the abttery life. It is about the same size as an Aimpoint and in all honesty I like it better than the Aimpoints I have used. The Zoom Dot gives you an adjustable dot size and automatically adjusts to ambient light, the Aimpoint does neither. It uses a solid state circuit wafer that is user replaceable if you need to. It has no wires to work loose. The only bad thing was that it isn't NV capable. Not that big of a deal over here but overseas, where I used mine, it was.

Aimpoints are the standard for red dots or at least have been for a very long time. The biggest advantage to Aimpoints is battery life which can be measured in years. But they are not without their problems either. Moisture in the battery compartment of an Aimpoint can cause issues. There have been reports of the wire connections working loose from recoil but I am sure those are on heavily used ones. The other bad point is there are a lot of fakes out there. Some fakes are really well made while others are nothing but junk. I had a fakepoint that I bought to try out. It lasted thousands of rounds on an AR and never failed in any way.

Here is a good run down of spotting a fakepoint:

How to recognize a fake Aimpoint. - AR15.COM

I have used a lot of Eotechs over the years. Battery life is miserable compared to most others in the same price range. In the off position the batteries last only a few months. In the on position it is much worse. One good thing about the Eotech is they automatically turn themselves off. When they work they work well and I liked the reticle for use with night vision better than anything else I have found. Some bad things I have witnessed is they will shut off and never come back on even with a battery change. I have seen some that we could never get zeroed or that would loose zero for no reason. And as with the Aimpoint there are fakes out there. There are a few give aways for fake Eotechs. First is they only came with a red reticle, if they have any other colors they are fake. Second is the red light shouldn't be visible other than the reticle itself.

Here is a good break down of how to spot a fake Eotech:

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/Recognizing counterfeit EOTech Sights 4-09.pdf

Do not buy any of the NCStar mini red dots. I have tried a couple over the years and they all were the same. Battery life measured in days. The glass cracked on one and fell out on another. They are not worth the $50 most sell for. And that price applies to any other brands as well. If you are not spending at least $100 on any of the mini red dot offering s out there it is going to be a piece of junk. For tube type red dot sights it is possible to get a decent one for under $100 but there are few that I would trust my life with.

And let me give you this. If the weapon may be called upon to save a life get a decent optic. That doesn't mean you have to spend $500 but don't try to skimp on optics. The Vortex products seem to have a big following and there is a reason why. Used Aimpoints can be found for $250 but for $250 I would get something else. I wouldn't consider and Eotech if the weapon might sit for periods of weeks or months then have to be called into action.

And finally do not rely soley on your optic, whatever it may be. Get some irons and install them. Magpul makes some nice, reasonably price polymer sights if you have a quad rail forend or a front sight. But because all you have is a railed gas block the MagPul sights won't line up or even hold up to the heat of firing. In that case you probaby need to get a metal front sight to go on your railed gas block. Once you do that just get any rear sight you like.

Dolomite

Wow, thank you so much for that informative post! I am leaning towards the Fastfire now and will look into the others you listed above!

Thank you again...many props to you for that.

A nice red-dot would do well, but I bought a Millet DMS-1 for my wife's SHTF AR, but I plan to use a Vortex SPARC on mine. Both would work well for self-defense/SHTF.

I will look into those two.

Leupold Mark AR 3 - 9x. No regrets.

Quite pricey though but thank you.

[Capbyrd]

Leupold Mark AR 3 - 9x. No regrets.

I don't see this being a good choice if one were using his AR as a home defense rifle.

[Rightwinger]

I don't see this being a good choice if one were using his AR as a home defense rifle.

Mainly target shooting and home defense. A good SHTF gun basically.

Just going with what the OP said he was "mainly" going to do with it Capy. An AR isn't a great home defense weapon anyway and the OP will probably come to that conclusion after shooting it a few times. Unless he lives on the Ponderosa.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Rightwinger

[Capbyrd]

I took it as mainly target shooting AND home defense. No worries though.

I completely agree that an AR isn't the best. For MANY reasons. But if its what you have, then by all means...

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Well, I do have a G19 that I use for home defense pretty much so Im okay on that but it would be for SHTF type of thing.

The AR for home defense would be a bit overrated but if it came down to that....

[Dolomite_supafly]

Well there are better caliber choices in the AR platform if you plan on using it indoors or at short ranges.

My wife wasn't real keen on the muzzle blast of a 223 AR. And if you have ever fired a 223 in an enclosed space it can be disorienting to say the least for both the shooter and the suspect. Even with hearing protection it can cause issues to those not accustomed to it.

Because of that I built her an AR chambered in 9mm. It has very little, if any, muzzle blast. I wouldn't hesitate to fire it indoors if I had to. And because of the extra barrel length the 9mm becomes comparable to a 357 magnum in energy levels. Recoil is manageable but, believe it or not, is more pronounced with a blowback 9mm AR than a gas 223.

Also there is the fun factor and the cost of shooting it. The cheapest 223 ammo is about .25 a round compared to 9mm that can be had for about .18 a round. Not much of a difference unless you are shooting a lot. And because more people can tolerate the 9mm, more people like shooting it. It is also allowed in most indoor ranges where some don't allow bottleneck cartridges like the 223.

My wife's 9mm AR gets shot by more people than any other gun I have ever owned. Hers has over 7,000 rounds through it and still going strong. Other than a good cleaning every 1,000 rounds or so, because it is a blowback gun, it needs very little maintanence.

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

To echo what Dolomite said, I find a lot of value in Red Dots that have the auto brightness feature.

During SWAT funtimes, I really appreciated it when moving through different lighting environments.

It's not as big of a deal with the Aimpoint because of Aimpoint's single dot, but with EOTech's "circle and dot", it sucks. When seaching a mostly lit building for a suspect using an EOTech and you find yourself moving into a darkened area, you can end up with a giant, unuseable red blob (yes, the weaponlight helps, but it's not always tactically appropriate).

I've always been an Aimpoint guy (still am), but I recently put one of these on my work gun...

http://www.insighttechgear.com/products-mrds.htm

I'm not quite ready to sell my Aimpoint M3 yet, but I'm really digging the MRDS with the armored cover.

As with the Aimpoints, I never turn them off (unless the gun is in the safe) and just replace the batteries when appropriate (Aimpoint = annually / MRDS = bi-annually).

To the OP's post #3, those are really two completely different missions.

The only optic that might meet both of your expectations are the various 1x4 tactical scopes out there.

There's a wide range of price and quality in that catagory.

It seems that the Millett DMS might be a good entry level option for you.

http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/dms/

Personally, I have not seen a cheaper option that is worth owning.

Remember, target shooting is one thing, but if the rifle in question might be pressed into a defensive role, consider it (and what you put on it) a piece of life saving equipment and don't scrimp on cheap crap.

Edited October 2, 2011 by TN-popo

[Dolomite_supafly]

Not sure if they make them for your optics but I would look at getting one of the winged protectors for your MRDS. I can't tell you how many scratches are on mine that would have damaged my FastFire. They are cheap insurance and keep me from worrying about damaging it.

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

I'm not quite ready to sell my Aimpoint M3 yet, but I'm really digging the MRDS with the armored cover.

Not sure if they make them for your optics but I would look at getting one of the winged protectors for your MRDS. I can't tell you how many scratches are on mine that would have damaged my FastFire. They are cheap insurance and keep me from worrying about damaging it.

Dolomite

Yep

[RWF]

well the only eotech's we have owned are the "N" type the 512 i believe, we change the batteries once a year unless we forget to turn it off. the rated battery life for N model (no longer made) is close the time for the sleep mode. i have shot a whole match with the low battery blink. they are aweful in my opinion in low light, unlike a rifle scope were you still clearly see and make out your target even at only 50 or 60 yards. but if are room clearing, i could understand that going from light to dark, if you had it brightly set. but at the same time if it is a eotech or a aimpoint with a dead battery in a house with your target in the window you will have a hit.

i know that once the holosight went from bushnell to eotech, there was suppose to be zero (hold zero etc) issues. but have not heard about any in a long time. but do not not keep up with that stuff.

a very good friend of mine has used both across the pond. a hand grenade blew off all the plastic parts of his M4 and schrapnel through his aimpoint it never loss zero or stopped working, but he seemed to like the eotech and trigicon over the aimpoint.

anyway i prefer a low power scope most of all, a 1.5 x 5. i can shoot at a few feet or out to 400+. if had a few K$ to spend ($4000 i believe) the leuopld 1 x 8 is very nice. once you got use to the rectile being so very small at 1 power.

but anyway what do i know, happy shopping, have fun.

[Dolomite_supafly]

well the only eotech's we have owned are the "N" type the 512 i believe, we change the batteries once a year unless we forget to turn it off. the rated battery life for N model (no longer made) is close the time for the sleep mode. i have shot a whole match with the low battery blink. they are aweful in my opinion in low light, unlike a rifle scope were you still clearly see and make out your target even at only 50 or 60 yards. but if are room clearing, i could understand that going from light to dark, if you had it brightly set. but at the same time if it is a eotech or a aimpoint with a dead battery in a house with your target in the window you will have a hit.

i know that once the holosight went from bushnell to eotech, there was suppose to be zero (hold zero etc) issues. but have not heard about any in a long time. but do not not keep up with that stuff.

a very good friend of mine has used both across the pond. a hand grenade blew off all the plastic parts of his M4 and schrapnel through his aimpoint it never loss zero or stopped working, but he seemed to like the eotech and trigicon over the aimpoint.

anyway i prefer a low power scope most of all, a 1.5 x 5. i can shoot at a few feet or out to 400+. if had a few K$ to spend ($4000 i believe) the leuopld 1 x 8 is very nice. once you got use to the rectile being so very small at 1 power.

but anyway what do i know, happy shopping, have fun.

They automatically turn off after 4 or 8 hours. When I used them I never turned the off because they turned off on their own.

Dolomite

[Magiccarpetrides]

I have an older Eotech 552 (AA battery with NV) and it has been asleep for about 2 years and still comes on just fine...course im using lithium energizers....its a good sight but is a bit long compared to whats available now. Its mounted on my MSAR.

On my 5.56 AR I have an Eotech OPmod (optics planet) EXPs 2-2 it uses 1 CR123 battery and so far I like it a lot. Have only had it for about 2 months though...so far, so good.

On my 9mm AR I have a Bushnell TRS-25 and its awesome for $70.00

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Trophy-TRS-25-1xRed-Riflescope/dp/B00200E0HM

Buy a UTG high or med riser (co-witness or 1/3 co-witness) and your gtg for about $80 shipped to your door (sight and riser)

.'>Amazon.com: utg med riser: Sports & Outdoors.. I have over 400rds through it so far and its holding zero awesome...very easy to make hits on target and it doesnt look cheap. Funny thing is I have Troy Noveske labeled backups that cost almost twice what I got in the dot lol.

For under $100 the TRS-25 is a great buy and its not junky like the ncstar versions. For $400 range I like the eotech a lot but...its 4x more money.

A good inexpensive combo would be some arms polymer/metal flip up's combined with the Bushnell TRS25...you would have a red dot for recreational shooting and if shtf and the bushnell bit it you would still have some bombproof back up sights all for under $200 invested.

ARMS 71L-F & 71L-R Flip-Up Sights <----arms flip ups...I hear botach's customer service is getting better

[RWF]

They automatically turn off after 4 or 8 hours. When I used them I never turned the off because they turned off on their own.

Dolomite

correct, the run time for the "N" battery type is rated for 8 hours as i recall, the shortest rated battery life. at the time and may still be that way.

but to me its small size is perfect for SBR's and the 16" models.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Great info on these scopes and red dots you've mentioned.

Keep them coming, I am still doing research on those that you guys have mentioned and its hard to decide which ones! lol

I very much appreciate these info and experiences you've guys shared....feel free to share more.

[RWF]

as someone said before, it is all what u want to do with it. every one will have the there own flavor. just a note as i said before i think a low power scope is best. but if you go with a scope, i very, very much recommend a 1 piece scope mount with forward angle. burris and model 1 make a nice one for under 100. larue is my favorvite but they are just under 200. they also make one with a 10 moa offset if at some point you may want to go for some long stuff.

you need the forward angle to get the eye relief correct.

Edited October 2, 2011 by RWF
same as always, spelling

[Dolomite_supafly]

What price range are you looking at?

That would help us narrow down the best bang for the buck.

Dolomite