Hungry Children

[mav]

Dude you are one sick MF. Maybe you need to take your head out of you arse and read a book. Start with the Bible.

Hey Einstein, perhaps you should reread your's. I guess I must have missed the part where it is considered good Christian-like behavior to engage in a personal attack by calling someone MF on an open forum.

I disagree with Tresoso, and while I cannot speak for him, I don't thnk he would truly accept a forced sterilization program. I could be wrong, but I took it as frustration talking.

Forced sterilization is certainly not the answer. However, the assistance programs need to be restructured so they are not rewarding bad and/or irresponsible behavior. Personally, I would prefer that assistance programs be administered through the local level via private organizations, charities, and churches. They seem to have a better grasp on who actually needs assistance versus those who are milking the system.

[Guest TresOsos]

Government sanctioned mass sterilization of the poor? Tell me how that would work exactly.......Einstein.

Real easy...you go on welfare using public or section 8 housing you go on Norplant (chemical sterilization).

If you get pregnant and have a child while on government support (it's realty not assistance, it's a life style for many), you lose your housing and benefits. If we have a social contract to help the underprivliged then they should have a social contract of personal responsibility to those providing the funding for the brenefits. One of those should be no more children while you are on government support. You want to have more kids get a job support yourself and your children. Look they have no right to public housing, they have no right to a welfare check and if we are going to provide support they should have to do their part. And part of that would be not making a bad situation worse and further burdening the tax payer.

I think the Lord would call what we are doing now, giving support without conditions, the act of foolish men. I know this concept is foreign, but imho is more moral than letting welfare queens pump out more children they can't take care of, you have to try and end the cycle at some point. However the current system is used by the current political establishment to promote an agenda, so I don't think anything like this will ever happen at least not anytime soon.

[Will Carry]

I must apologize to TGO. I should have ignored the post and I never said I was a "good" christian but calling him a MF was probably out of line. I got angry because advocating the forced sterilization of poor people is such a sick evil terrible thing to say, even if he was speaking metaphorically. If the man (or boy) really feels that way then he is sick. Either way it is he who should be aplogizing.

He is saying on one hand he wants less government (which I agree with) then on the other hand he wants the government to spend tax dollars for an inhuman sterilization program that only a Nazi could love. I got no use for talk like that. I will try to ignore posts like his in the future....but it's hard.

[Mike.357]

I am curious Tres, are you throwing the welfare people's kids out too? Or can they still get help?

[Guest TresOsos]

Mike.357

No I wouldn't toss the kids to the curb for the adults irresponsible behavior and breech of the social contract.

They could be placed into foster care or placed with a responisible relative, but a system could be develeoped to handle those situations.

[Guest TresOsos]

I must apologize to TGO. I should have ignored the post and I never said I was a "good" christian but calling him a MF was probably out of line. I got angry because advocating the forced sterilization of poor people is such a sick evil terrible thing to say, even if he was speaking metaphorically. If the man (or boy) really feels that way then he is sick. Either way it is he who should be aplogizing.

He is saying on one hand he wants less government (which I agree with) then on the other hand he wants the government to spend tax dollars for an inhuman sterilization program that only a Nazi could love. I got no use for talk like that. I will try to ignore posts like his in the future....but it's hard.

I've been called a heck of a lot worse than anything you can come up with and besides I have a pretty tough hide. I will not apologize to you or anyone else for my opinions, you don't like them well .........., so far free speech still exsist and I don't believe I have broken any forum rules.

I'm not advocating forced sterilization, because the system is voluntary and not mandatory. I'm advocating submitting to voluntary temporary sterilization as a condition of recieving government support.You apply for the help, the system does not force it on you. You want the housing and the check you agree to the terms of service. That would include not having children while recieving benefits. Want to have kids, better yourself, leave the system and have a housefull, if you can fully support, house, feed and cloth them. I also believe this will save money and cut spending in the long run, Norplant cost a lot less than raising a child.

Is it too much to ask that the social contract work both ways, we help, you live by certain rules and help yourself.

We have spent 5 trillion plus over 40 years fighting a "War on Poverty". Sadly I have to say we have lost, not only the battles, but the war. We now have a dependent class that knows nothing else and I guess that is moral and good, right?

[Guest Bronker]

...Dude you are one sick MF. Maybe you need to take your head out of you arse and read a book. Start with the Bible.

...Tell me how that would work exactly.......Einstein.

I must apologize to TGO. I should have ignored the post and I never said I was a "good" christian but calling him a MF was probably out of line...If the man (or boy) really feels that way then he is sick. Either way it is he who should be aplogizing...I got no use for talk like that. I will try to ignore posts like his in the future....but it's hard.

Too bad this wasn't your forethought. Retrospect, unfortunately is going to cost you. Infraction issued.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tn-gun-owners-announcements/6530-tennessee-gun-owners-code-conduct-please-sure-read.html

[strickj]

To get back on topic, fat does not necessarily equate to eating. The way things are, a carrot costs more then a Mc. Double.

As far as food stamps goes, the system is broken. The welfare system has saved a lot of lives. And still does.

The problems we are seeing today stems from giving those on welfare jobs giving away welfare. When you give a woman that lives in the projects a job approving welfare applicants and determining how much those applicants receive, then it's almost guaranteed that she will give her friends all of the benefits instead of those that truly deserve them and need them.

It is really, really sad that kids have to go hungry because some project momma want's more stamps to sell to pay for a big screen.

[FUJIMO]

I have to feel that wherever there is a starving child there's a parent that should be trying to solve that issue. Yes there's starving children with no parents but someone has taken the responsibility to guardian that child ( private or gvt.) and they are failing in their duties.

And I would like to see a chart that splits the "starving because of poverty" and the "starving because their parents are worthless sacks of dog sh*t who need their fooking teeth kicked in" . I see far too many at the grocery store with buggies (that's plural) paying with their EBT (now called SNAP) and then 5 miles down the road I see them with a buggy of beer and smokes and paying with cold hard cash. My personal thought is stop doing the latter and you will have more money for the former. But then, that's rationale and they don't have it.

[Guest nicemac]

Saw a news story last week that showed food stamp recipients in several states (that have bottle deposits) walk into a store and buy cases of bottled water with their vouchers. They go to the parking lot and dump the water out. They walk back in the store and get cash for the bottles. They walk to the beer isle and pick up some beer.

I know this happens. Back in the day, I worked in a convenience store during college. Guys would come in and buy penny items and pay with a $1 food stamp. I had to give them $0.99 cents change in coins. Do that three times and they had enough for a six-pack. They system is being scammed. There may be more people than ever on public assistance, but I do not believe we have more needy people than ever before.

Are there hungry kids? Probably. Most of them are hungry because of choices their parent(s) make. (cell phone, cigarettes, drugs, etc…)

[Jonnin]

It's wrong...SO WRONG. In shame and secret I sympathize. As wrong as it is to say things like the above; It's equally wrong that ghetto trash breed more trash. Why should we (working folk) be made to feed an ever multiplying hoard of parasites? Pray for divine intervention is the only suitable remedy I can think of and maintain a clear conscience.

I cannot agree with this mentality. I understand it, but here is a story for you. My granddad was headed off to war, WWII, training to be part of a tank crew. Something blew up, I do not know what, and he was hurt. The doctors of the time managed to patch him up with plates in his head, and he lived. He HURT all the time and took to drinking to dull the pain and as far as I know did not hold much of a job. Long story short my dad's folks were about as poor and rough as it gets, and many folks considered them "trash" -- a drunk with his woman and kid in a hovel. He passed and dad ended up being the wage earner as a young teenager. Stayed in school but had to work in a mill for a long time and got married, lived in a trailer in his mom's back yard, 2 kids and the process begins again, right? Not really... he finally managed to get into night school and eventually earned his engineering degree, build a nice home, scraped and saved to send my sister and I to private highschool and college, and here I sit programming a computer for a pretty good living. I know some well to do folks (or kids of such) from my high school days, and some of them are living off mom & dad to this day, and I am getting close to 40. You know the drill, the kids went off to school to get a degree in fingerpainting or whatever and can't find a job, got married and made babies, moved back in with the folks.... sometimes poor folks get motivated and pull out of poverty, kicking and fighting the whole way as they work 2 jobs while taking a class here and there (we need more of these). Sometimes the "productive" folks breed kids that are nothing but mooches and parasites. So, I can agree that poor people should have enough sense to hold off on whelping until they get their feet under them, but this is not china. We do not deny people their rights or cut on their bodies because of their economic or social status. Education programs that recommend that poor people do not have kids, I support that. Snipping the works to ensure they do not have kids... I cannot support that idea. I am sort of ok with cutting off the handouts so people are forced to work their way out of starvation, however. As was said, plenty of "poor" have a car, tv, cigs, cell phones, and more. If they are hungy, its because that cell phone took priority over a burger.

[Caster]

Well, I never said deny anyone rights or cut on anyone. I said I can understand. What right does one person have because of their misfortune, to encroach upon my life and financial stability? NONE. It is sad that a veteran such as your granddad fell into such despair but that doesn't grant him the right to an entitlement at the expense of someone else. If it does than his sacrifice for freedom was a waste and for not. I've posted this so many times, to take from one to give to another in the name of charity or social programs is THEFT in every way shape form and fashion.

So it's not right to physically intervene upon someone's ability to breed. I agree. Let nature run it's course though. All other animals that cannot provide for themselves suffer. It's an extension of natural selection and man is insolent and arrogant to think he is above it.

Charity is voluntary. I'm inclined to give to the needy when it's my choice. When you take from me without my permission to give to someone else, I lose all sympathy. I don't take to being stolen from. If the only way the masses can walk, is on the backs of people like me who work everyday and provide for ourselves.....they can rot.

Genesis 3:19 In the SWEAT OF THY face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out OF it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

...meaning: WORK to support yourself until the day you die or starve!

Edited September 9, 2011 by Caster

[Guest TresOsos]

Let me try and make my view point clear. I should have used mandatory Birth Control, this can be accomplished through NorPlant a drug or by an implanted device such as an IUD. I do not advocate mandatory cutting on anyone, however if mom feels shes had enough children and request and consents a Tubal Ligation would be offered.

You do not have a right to public assitance, even though today people think they are "entitled" it's not a right!

Why should the tax payers have to continue to pay for bad choices and bad behavior and benefit recipients

get to abuse the system. If we help them then they should be responsible and held accountable for their actions and there should be consequences.

If you want to be a baby making machine fine, I have no issue with that other than do not under any circumstance ask me to help you support, feed and cloth them. That includes using any portion of the taxes I pay to do so. In todays world there is sensible none invasive technology that can prevent pregnancy. All I'm saying is that while you are on government support you don't get to have any more kids and further burden a already strained system.

Your right this isn't China you have the right to reproduce till your heart is content, and you have little ones coming out of the wood work, again just don't ask me or others to provide for your offspring.

[Jonnin]

I agree with all that, as I said, I am all for cutting off the handouts to encourage more folks to better themselves. I was just thinking about the forced sterilization mentality ... they would certainly have hit my dad up in his early years, and I would not be here. Who could stand here to make that judgement call? (this is not aimed at caster!). Would take a brave person to say that my dad should have had em cut off...

[MacGyver]

How about replacing money or vouchers with actual food? I recognize all kinds of people are going to come out of the woodwork and call this an invasion of privacy, humiliating, etc..., but I could argue that this might work a lot better than what we have now.

Heck, it could save some of those postal workers' jobs that their boss was on the news crying about the other day. If the numbers are really 1 in 10, that's 30 million boxes of food getting distributed on a regular basis - weekly, biweekly, whatever. For that matter, do it right and there's a boatload of jobs right there - as a part of the program, you can come pack boxes.

I'd much rather see communities support their own needs, but if there's no putting Pandora back in the box, let's at least make it sustainable.

[Guest TresOsos]

I agree with all that, as I said, I am all for cutting off the handouts to encourage more folks to better themselves. I was just thinking about the forced sterilization mentality ... they would certainly have hit my dad up in his early years, and I would not be here. Who could stand here to make that judgement call? (this is not aimed at caster!). Would take a brave person to say that my dad should have had em cut off...

The system back than was not what is and has become today. Your dad you said worked in a mill and helped to support his family.

This would in no way have applied to your father, btw glad your here.

[Chucktshoes]

Restaurants want a piece of food stamp pie

Here is the direction this is all going.

[Guest nicemac]

Restaurants want a piece of food stamp pie

Here is the direction this is all going.

The National Restaurant Association supports Yum!, said spokeswoman Katie Laning Niebaum, but the National Association of Convenience Stores does not.

"If the pie's only so big, nobody's going to want to see the pie sliced thinner," said Convenience Stores spokesman Jeff Lenard. "I'm not sure that's in the best interest of public health."

The convenience store guy calling out the restaurants because apparently he thinks convenience stores sell healthier food than restaurants. Priceless.

[Guest TresOsos]

How about replacing money or vouchers with actual food? I recognize all kinds of people are going to come out of the woodwork and call this an invasion of privacy, humiliating, etc..., but I could argue that this might work a lot better than what we have now.

Heck, it could save some of those postal workers' jobs that their boss was on the news crying about the other day. If the numbers are really 1 in 10, that's 30 million boxes of food getting distributed on a regular basis - weekly, biweekly, whatever. For that matter, do it right and there's a boatload of jobs right there - as a part of the program, you can come pack boxes.

I'd much rather see communities support their own needs, but if there's no putting Pandora back in the box, let's at least make it sustainable.

This is a excellent idea, and the benefit recipients could work to help offset the cost and pack food boxes.

The boxes could come with printed menus and preparation instruction and be heavy on bulk dried beans and rice and other staples. Printed non-transferable voucher with the recipients name printed on them could be used at local stores for milk,eggs and bread only.

If you want to eat preprepared food, frozen pizza and dine on filet mignon and frozen lobster, get a job.

Since I'm already labeled as a sick sick **"er I'd like to propose the following also.

Random drug testing 24/7 365 for Illegal drugs, alcohol and tobacco. If you test positive, then your benefits can be terminated.

If you want to use drugs, drink beer,wine or liquior and smoke cigarettes or use other forms of tobacco, then get a job.

Again before you blow a casket, government support is not a "right" so this would not violate any, you have a choice not to participate. Also I use to smoke, pack and a half a day and bought cigarettes by the carton. My cost in 2006 was almost $200 a month.

Remember currently the US Government is printing or borrowing 7,000,000,000.00, that's 7 billion dollars approximately every 30 hours.

We are going to have to make some very tough choices and reforms, or there will be nothing to help anyone.

[peejman]

How about replacing money or vouchers with actual food? I recognize all kinds of people are going to come out of the woodwork and call this an invasion of privacy, humiliating, etc..., but I could argue that this might work a lot better than what we have now.

Lots of churches (mine included) already do this. We have a food pantry that's open one day/week. I've never participated in handing out the food, but I know a lot is given away. I feel much more comfortable letting my church determine who's really in need and how to help them than my government.

This nonsense about restaurants accepting food stamps... What they should change is the laws regarding what restaurants are allowed to do with their left-overs.

Edited September 9, 2011 by peejman

[Caster]

Eliminate any open ends where it can be exploited for monetary gain. I see a guy begging on a street corner, I wouldn't hand him a dollar if he was on fire. BUT, if he wants to walk across the street to Wendy's....I'd buy him three sacks full of burgers to feed his wife and kids. Anytime, if have the $$$.

STOP giving out food stamp cards and start giving out the food itself, and I bet anyone here, the percent of people on them would drop overnight. I've heard people talking here at the shop how they go to the grocery store with a food stamp card holder. They buy up a bunch of groceries, get out to the parking lot and then pay the card holder like half receipt total, in cash. Person (A) gets 50% off their groceries, person ( gets money for meth.

[Jonnin]

The system back than was not what is and has become today. Your dad you said worked in a mill and helped to support his family.This would in no way have applied to your father, btw glad your here.

Aye but they were also, looking at it from the outside, a family living off the govt dime by and large and using that money to buy booze at times. Without knowing the why (and few did), they would have been a prime candidate for the no-kids solution. Just saying --- the point really was about the "american dream" -- that a kid with no chance can turn it all around. Enforced birth control doesnt fit that dream IMHO. Even when it might seem like a good idea, I cannot entertain it as a real solution. And trust me, every time I go out to eat, enforced birth control really does sound better and better

[Guest TresOsos]

Enforced birth control doesnt fit that dream IMHO. Even when it might seem like a good idea, I cannot entertain it as a real solution. And trust me, every time I go out to eat, enforced birth control really does sound better and better

First, you have a choice or not to participate in recieving benefits, take the benefits, accept the rules, we will have to agree to disagree and I'll remain one sick puppy.

Second, I understant how you feel about going out to eat..............................

[Jonnin]

I do not claim you are sick. I just think that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Effective, practical, and it would work wonders. Sort of like gassing all the folks in the jail showers to save taxpayer money. That also would work, but its not really a strategy that should be given a lot of consideration. But as you said, we can agree to disagree, and besides, its unlikely to ever be brought up by any politician who wants to keep his job, and they excel at keepin their jobs.

[enfield]

I can believe some children being hungry due to parental neglect, and some adults being hungry due to mental or drug problems.

But I don't believe anything published in the media.