HCP & DUI???

[tnhawk]

So, by that rational, nobody who attends AA or NA should have a HCP in TN?

Attendance of a AA meeting doesn't qualify a being a patient in a rehab program.

[Guest jrholt9577]

Attendance of a AA meeting doesn't qualify a being a patient in a rehab program.

Ok. So what would the criteria be? Would it only apply to intensive inpatient programs?

[Fallguy]

Ok. So what would the criteria be? Would it only apply to intensive inpatient programs?

I guess in the end it would be up to the DoS what constitued someone as being a "patient" in rehab "program".

A question one may ask themselves is though.....how is the DoS going to know....again not suggesting any course of action.

[vontar]

Not a lawyer, but I think I would get a lawyer and try to appeal that there was not intent to operate the car on the grounds that he was in the back seat. That seems like an unfair DUI.

I found similar here.

Charged With DUI for Sleeping in a Car Here a person won an appeal with the engine running (running the heater while waiting on a AAA due to a flat tire on the ground it was some how clear he had no intention to operate the car because he had already called AAA.

I would think your cousin's ground would be clear he had no intention to operate being in the back seat of a parked car sleeping. If someone fails to have a back up plan home, at least they stayed off the road.

[Guest tommy62]

Ok. So what would the criteria be? Would it only apply to intensive inpatient programs?

The level of care is irrelevant. If a person is admitted into a program inpatient or outpatient they are still receiving substance abuse treatment.

[Guest jrholt9577]

Is there any place online that I can view the questions asked on the HCP application or view the form itself?

[Fallguy]

Is there any place online that I can view the questions asked on the HCP application or view the form itself?

This is not the actual form, but it has all the requirments...

Handgun Carry Permit Qualifications and Requirements

[Oh Shoot]

It's ironic that according to 39-17-1351, you could have had a DUI conviction the day before you apply for HCP and still receive the permit.

Yet, after having the permit, a Class A 'meanor conviction revokes the permit for the duration of the sentence, (generally 11/29 "suspended" but on probation).

So is this interpreted to mean that your permit would not be revoked, since the qualifying infraction occurred before the permit was issued? Or must they issue it and then revoke it all in one fell swoop?

- OS

[Fallguy]

It's ironic that according to 39-17-1351, you could have had a DUI conviction the day before you apply for HCP and still receive the permit.

Yet, after having the permit, a Class A 'meanor conviction revokes the permit for the duration of the sentence, (generally 11/29 "suspended" but on probation).

So is this interpreted to mean that your permit would not be revoked, since the qualifying infraction occurred before the permit was issued? Or must they issue it and then revoke it all in one fell swoop?

- OS

Well I don't think they would issue one just to suspend or revoke it. Also after thinking about it, you may not could get a HCP the day after a HCP convicition because of the whatever the sentence and certain conditions that apply.

[Oh Shoot]

Well I don't think they would issue one just to suspend or revoke it. Also after thinking about it, you may not could get a HCP the day after a HCP convicition because of the whatever the sentence and certain conditions that apply.

Well, I could see no disqualifying clause in the HCP disqualifications in 1351, only in the reason for revocation/suspension in 1352. And the disqualification doesn't speak clearly to Class A 'meanor received BEFORE receiving an HCP.

- OS

[Bprater]

I have not read this thread completely so the question could have been answered by now but I have had first hand experience with this. I was convicted of a DUI and two years after my conviction I took my class, turned in my paperwork and received my permit about two weeks later. I learned my lesson the hard way and while I still drink on occasion, I do it far less now and rarely "go out" anymore. I could have lost my job over this but fortunately did not being that I have a company vehicle. Another would definitely kill my chances of keeping my job and I would lose my permit. Im not wanting either to happen. Not to mention that when you do go to a bar, even if you are just there for a few beers, you could run into a drunken idiot who wants to fight and you could end up in trouble with the law right along side him. Not sure what you could be charged with for a bar fight or how this would affect your permit but I dont see chancing it. Ive changed my ways to some degree since I got the DUI and my permit.

[JReedEsq]

Not a lawyer, but I think I would get a lawyer and try to appeal that there was not intent to operate the car on the grounds that he was in the back seat. That seems like an unfair DUI.

I found similar here.

Charged With DUI for Sleeping in a Car Here a person won an appeal with the engine running (running the heater while waiting on a AAA due to a flat tire on the ground it was some how clear he had no intention to operate the car because he had already called AAA.

I would think your cousin's ground would be clear he had no intention to operate being in the back seat of a parked car sleeping. If someone fails to have a back up plan home, at least they stayed off the road.

That's an Illionis case. In Tennessee we are under a different statute. The key isn't his intent but control over the vehicle. Twice in the last three years I've had clients charged with DUI who were trying to sleep it off in their vehicle. In both cases I avoided convictions for my clients, but by other means. The control issue is a very difficult one to challenge under the Tennessee statute. There is actually a case where someone was found to be "in control" of his vehicle because he was merely walking toward it in a parking lot. The problem with the statute, as written, is that it doesn't allow someone to do the safe thing and sleep it off in their vehicle. Instead, it incentives someone trying to drive home and get off the road.

[DaveTN]

That's an Illionis case. In Tennessee we are under a different statute. The key isn't his intent but control over the vehicle. Twice in the last three years I've had clients charged with DUI who were trying to sleep it off in their vehicle. In both cases I avoided convictions for my clients, but by other means. The control issue is a very difficult one to challenge under the Tennessee statute. There is actually a case where someone was found to be "in control" of his vehicle because he was merely walking toward it in a parking lot. The problem with the statute, as written, is that it doesn't allow someone to do the safe thing and sleep it off in their vehicle. Instead, it incentives someone trying to drive home and get off the road.

It’s that way in Illinois also. It came about in the early 80’s from us having to wait for someone to attempt to drive their vehicle away before arresting them for DUI. I watched an Officer get hurt doing that. He was drug by the vehicle and the DUI suspect came a second away from getting shot.

Physical control s all that is (or was) required. The test is… without exiting the vehicle can he start it and drive off? If the answer is yes; he’s in physical control.

Fair? When it comes to DUI no one cares what’s fair or what your intent is. In Illinois our discretion on DUI was taken away anyway. So it really doesn’t matter what we would have thought your intent was.

[JReedEsq]

Fair? When it comes to DUI no one cares what’s fair or what your intent is. In Illinois our discretion on DUI was taken away anyway. So it really doesn’t matter what we would have thought your intent was.

For me it isn't a question of what's fair, it's more a question of encouraging someone to drive or to sleep it off in their vehicle. A little forethought would prevent someone from finding themselves in that situation to begin with. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences to poor planning, I just think it should treated as a lesser offense than actually risking the lives of others by driving impaired.

[Caster]

Does having a DUI prevent you from getting a HCP in TN?

It should, and it should do so indefinitely along with permanent revocation of driving privileges too.

Stay sober or stay home. If anyone disagrees, tell it to some mother who's baby is dead because some clown decided to have a few then hit the road. DUI = Premeditated Attempted Murder

All of us who like alcohol in it's various forms, know full well it's effects and no one...NO ONE has an excuse.

[BlackHawk93]

It should, and it should do so indefinitely along with permanent revocation of driving privileges too.

Stay sober or stay home. If anyone disagrees, tell it to some mother who's baby is dead because some clown decided to have a few then hit the road. DUI = Premeditated Attempted Murder

All of us who like alcohol in it's various forms, know full well it's effects and no one...NO ONE has an excuse.

I see, all too often with my job, the effects of drinking and driving and, while there is nothing wrong with drinking, acting irresponsibly, either by getting behind the wheel or by getting into a fight while intoxicated may be more likely, I feel like bprater mentioned below:

Not to mention that when you do go to a bar, even if you are just there for a few beers, you could run into a drunken idiot who wants to fight and you could end up in trouble with the law right along side him. Not sure what you could be charged with for a bar fight or how this would affect your permit but I dont see chancing it. Ive changed my ways to some degree since I got the DUI and my permit.

It's just not worth the chance that something bad will happen and I feel that having my HCP has definitely changed the way I act, carry myself and I DO NOT put myself in those circumstances because my license to carry is very important to me. As you can see in this story, Deputy accused of aggravated assault on The Murfreesboro Post even those who are supposed to be held to a higher standard of responsibility by being an officer do stupid and regrettable things when they choose to drink. It's just not worth it to me.