Open carry triggers business to post gun buster.

[hornett22]

I carry open most of the time. If a property owner doesn't like it,they can ask me to leave. I gladly will take my wallet and go,and I will NEVER return! whether I am armed or not.

I do believe they have a right to set the rules on their property though and I respect their wishes and rights.

[Guest TAFKAP]

I don't think the Costco on Winchester is posted, at least I dont think I have ever seen it.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

I've heard that COSTCO is anti-carry, but I've never seen it posted at either Memphis store.

[DaveS]

At times I do not think it's the store owners or managers that restrict carry. I have a friend who is a business owner here in town. He hunts, shoots and even has a HCP. He had to "post" his store not because he didn't want anyone to carry, but because his INSURANCE company said so! By the store being posted, that takes the "liability" off his insurance if a customer or "bad guy" gets shot in the store. Keep that in mind next you see a "gun buster" sign.

[Oh Shoot]

At times I do not think it's the store owners or managers that restrict carry. I have a friend who is a business owner here in town. He hunts, shoots and even has a HCP. He had to "post" his store not because he didn't want anyone to carry, but because his INSURANCE company said so! By the store being posted, that takes the "liability" off his insurance if a customer or "bad guy" gets shot in the store. Keep that in mind next you see a "gun buster" sign.

That's a recurring rumor on TGO, but we have never had actual verification from an insurer that that is true.. Matter of fact, see if your friend will come onboard and confirm that, naming the insurer, as we've not have any actual verification from a business owner that this has actually occurred in a policy clause.

Frankly, I just don't believe it myself. For the simple reason that if it were an industry standard that posting lowered biz insurance premium, EVERY biz would be posted. Not even sure it would be a legal option for an insurer to offer; can see various interstate issues regarding that.

Can tell you I've had a $100K liability coverage attached to my State Farm renters insurance ever since I started a biz in my home, and can assure you there is no option to lower premium for posting no guns.

- OS

Edited April 27, 2012 by OhShoot

[DaveS]

I see it, I believe it and I'm not disclosing his personal information to you on a public forum. Call an insurance agent and get you a quote for a "make believe" business, see what they tell you about allowing or not allowing guns. It also must be remembered that we all whine about our so called rights " to carry any damned place we care too", we forget about the "rights" of property owners, to keep your guns off his property. It's all simple....if it's posted...go some where else, or we can all leave our guns in our cars. Property and business owners have RIGHTS too! It's no different than a business owner posting a sign on his door telling you to "take off your hoodie, sunglasses, bandana, ski mask and PULL up your pants before you come in". It's his right....why not honor that?

[Caster]

There's a time and place for everything, but the time and place for open carry rarely comes along. Everyone is CERTAINLY within their right to do so, I will not say nay against it, but it's idiocy to me. Why start a confrontation, scare the sheep, or cause uneducated people to make rash decisions. What forward movement have you made there? I'm first to admit I have been and will continue to be a touch hypocritical on open carry as I will [as inconspicuous as possible] switch to open carry when I sense a tremor in the Force, but NEVER inside a business. Really guys, what good does it do? Your right to do so set aside for a moment, what GOOD does open carry do for anyone? IMHO .....none.

[Oh Shoot]

I see it, I believe it and I'm not disclosing his personal information to you on a public forum. Call an insurance agent and get you a quote for a "make believe" business, see what they tell you about allowing or not allowing guns....

Tell me the insurance company and I will do just that.

I already told you that mine does not have that as an option. I don't believe any do, but completely and avidly willing to be proven wrong if you'll point me at the insurer in question, which will of course not give any clue as to your friend's identity.

- OS

[DaveS]

There's a time and place for everything, but the time and place for open carry rarely comes along. Everyone is CERTAINLY within their right to do so, I will not say nay against it, but it's idiocy to me. Why start a confrontation, scare the sheep, or cause uneducated people to make rash decisions. What forward movement have you made there? I'm first to admit I have been and will continue to be a touch hypocritical on open carry as I will [as inconspicuous as possible] switch to open carry when I sense a tremor in the Force, but NEVER inside a business. Really guys, what good does it do? Your right to do so set aside for a moment, what GOOD does open carry do for anyone? IMHO .....none.

Very well said!

[JayC]

At times I do not think it's the store owners or managers that restrict carry. I have a friend who is a business owner here in town. He hunts, shoots and even has a HCP. He had to "post" his store not because he didn't want anyone to carry, but because his INSURANCE company said so! By the store being posted, that takes the "liability" off his insurance if a customer or "bad guy" gets shot in the store. Keep that in mind next you see a "gun buster" sign.

I call BS on that... My family, my wife's family, and I own between us 10+ different business entities, each with insurance policies... I can't tell you how many different insurance companies I've met with and received quotes from in the last 10 years... I've NEVER seen a single policy with that type of language in it... People keep claiming that is why some businesses post... but nobody has ever been able to produce said policy.

And even if his insurance company does have such a clause... I'm willing to bet a beer that he can find the exact same coverage from at least 3 different companies for the same price as he is paying now.

There are LOTS of anti-gun businesses out there that need to be tossed under the bus... Banks, who won't provide credit to firearms related businesses, just because they're firearm related businesses... but insurance companies requiring that your building be posted, isn't one of them yet....

Edited April 27, 2012 by JayC

[DaveS]

I'm not going to argue my friends Insurance company's liability requirements for posting or not posting, no more than I'm going to try and explain why my insurance company charges me almost 500 more dollars in liability because I have 2 pittbulls in my fenced in yard. I mearly stated facts about my friends reasoning for posting his store. It was all about liability and premiums. I'm sorry you all can't find the answers you're looking for...

It's all about liability.

Edited April 27, 2012 by wd-40

[Oh Shoot]

.... It was all about liability and premiums. I'm sorry you all can't find the answers you're looking for...

We're discussing premium discount for business firearms posting and now you want to somehow equate pit bulls at your home?

Insurance companies have rates and rules, their agents can't just conjure up some discount out of the blue to sell a policy.

Since you won't even "reveal" the company for me to call and verify (something that would reveal nothing about you or your friend's identity whatsoever), afraid I can only call same ole BS urban legend also.

- OS

Edited April 27, 2012 by OhShoot

[Fallguy]

The law clearly says that posting a sign does not alter any liability the business may or may not have.

So if his insurance company is telling him this, they simply are not familiar with TN law it seems.

[DaveS]

Fellow TGO'rs, I didn't come over here to argue, I merely stated the reason why my friend "posted his business". I'm sorry you find the reason unexceptable. Those that are whinning are the same ones that whine at any "gun buster" sign, on any door, for any reason. Heaven forbid, and to hell with property owner rights. I love to carry my hand gun too. But I'm not going to bawl my eyes out and go into mourning because I can't carry into a particular business. Hell, if you're that scared that you can't go out into public without your gun, stay at home and carry every thing you own! This about ALL RIGHTS, not just 2A!!

Edited April 27, 2012 by wd-40

[Guest bluecanary25]

I have had numerous people ask me if I am a cop. I tell them I am a legally armed citizen and smile.

Many times this opens discussion on how they can get a permit to carry.

These are opportunities to educate the sheeple.

[Guest 270win]

This is why the state needs to remove the 500 fine and let the signs be a civil matter, not a criminal matter between property owners and those with handgun carry permits. Someone can always be asked to leave property with these signs, even if it is not a criminal offense. Why the state finds it necessary to add a fine to property and parks to apply to those with handgun carry permits is silly. What is the point of getting a permit when you can get fines slapped on you AFTER getting a permit?

[DaveS]

Why should signs be a matter at all? If a property is posted, that's the business owners "business". Why should anyone be sued or prosecuted because he/she doesn't want your gun on their property, or even the type of sign he has or doesn't have? No weapon means NO WEAPON, I don't care what language you post it in. An HCP doesn't let you come and go as you please. I owned a business for about 20 years. No body, I mean NO BODY is going to tell me that I HAVE TO ALLOW YOU to carry on/in my business or even how I post it. Criminal/Civil, makes no different, I don't care how many HCPs you own. That's my whole point. It's not a "God given right". It's a privilage that has been allowed to us. It's up to all of us to insure we continue to enjoy those rights. The more fuss'n we do, the more we give to the anti's. We as gun owners, have to support the laws of the state and the rights and wishes of others. If we have to depend upon the state to clarify signage for "NO GUNS", we are in a sorry state of affairs.

Just is closing friends, if a business is posted, no matter how, what, or why...please respect their wishes and leave your poppers in the car or take your business some where else! Fuss'n about it isn't going to do anything but make matters worse. "Educate not Regulate"!

Edited April 28, 2012 by wd-40

[Guest TAFKAP]

With wording like that, it sounds like you've already given into the antis....

[Guest 270win]

There are MANY states that do not have criminal penalties for walking past a sign. I can think of Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, just to name a few that are close to Tennessee. The business owner can already ask someone to leave if he notices someone's gun. TN does not need to add a state criminal offense to a sign whether it be parks or govt property or business property.

[Oh Shoot]

There are MANY states that do not have criminal penalties for walking past a sign. ...

Two or three have a penalty for posted bars, but I don't know of any at all that have one for general posted properties.

Then again, I don't know of any other state that has felt it necessary to specifically pass a law to allow consumption of road kill either.

TN lawmakers are always a vanguard within the nation's legislative intelligentsia.

- OS

Edited April 28, 2012 by OhShoot

[Motasyco]

This is pretty simple to me. If you want to post your business, no problem, post it. But if you post it there should be some requirement for size and placement of the posting. A 3 inch gunbuster in the lower corner of a door would not reasonably be expected to be seen. In my opinion, it should be a minimum of 18x18 inches, directly in front of the entrance. That way I can see it as I pull in to the parking lot and move on to another business that wants my money. Actually a 4x 8 foot sign I can see from the road would be even better. I hate taking the time to park and get all of the way to the door before finding I'm not wanted there.

[1pointofview]

I have an. Idea. Much like the "thin blue line" bumper stickers and such, I think a simple pro self protection bumper sticker needs to be made. Something that is simple yet effective and will send a message. Then, when people start seeing them they will Google what the sticker means and hopefully will find a site that will explain in rational terms what self protection means and more importantly what it does not mean

[Guest 270win]

I don't mind people sticking up signs, it is when those signs have a criminal penalty for people WITH permits. Kind of pointless to get a permit and still get fined for carrying somewhere.

[DaveS]

What if the signs read, "No Weapons Permitted, Violators Will be prosecuted to the Fullest Extent of the Law". I don't think this is what we want. 18 x 18 right on the front door, would be OK. But how about those who are too STUPID to abide by those request? Felony? Misdemeaner? Fine? Jail, Both maybe? There has to be something to get your attention! There are several good businesses around I enjoy going to. They posted...big deal! It's their right...That's my whole point. Our little pittetly a** HCP's don't over rule their rights. Just a fact we all have to accept! We don't need courts and laws to explain to us simple minded people that NO guns, means NO GUNS...folks we have enough laws and rules now...don't need no more!

[TMF]

Walking barefoot past a sign that requires it shouldn't be a criminal act. Neither should carrying past a gunbuster. I've walked by at least one that I know of that I didn't see. That could have earned me a bad day if someone would have noticed, and yet I had no intent to break the law. Walking past a sign should only earn an invitation to leave, not fines and jail.

[Guest 270win]

That's right no fines. Just asking to leave is enough to work. If it works in Alabama this way, why not in Tennessee?