Open carry triggers business to post gun buster.

[Guest ab28]

I see a "no firearms" sign in the same light - when you see a no firearms sign at the doorway to a business you are, in my mind, already guilty of criminal trespass because you already know you aren't supposed to be there and you intentionally entered the business anyway and such would be true whether there was any special verbage in the code about "firearms" or not.

Moreover, whether or not a person thinks their right to carry is "more important" than the rights of a property owner why would you walk into a business and give your custom to a business that obviously doesn't support your 2ND Amendment rights? I live by the motto that if my gun is welcome then my money isn't welcome either.

For the first part, I see a business as having different rules than a private home. If you have the public coming and going at your place of business, you don't really have the right to consider the building personal property like a house. I have also served a tour in Iraq, and have invested a lot of time and money in extra training courses for defensive handgun usage. I don't trust some overweight mall security cop to defend my life better than I can. Also, the "no guns" mentality is stupid and irrational, and I have no reason to acknowledge irrational beliefs. I carry anyways.

I generally won't go to a posted business, but I won't think twice about carrying there, either. I don't look like someone that carries a gun, and concealed means concealed. My personal self defense and how I choose to do so is my own decision, no one else's. The only place I won't carry is federal property, and on my campus.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ab28

[TMF]

Then don't go to that business. It is really that simple. Should I go to a black tie restaurant wearing board shorts and flip flops, then bitch that my 1st Amendment rights have been violated?

Private property is private property; it don't matter how many combat zones you go to or how much better you think you can handle a weapon. If I was a business owner and didn't want guns on my property that's my business. Don't like it then don't go there. Boycott it, encourage others to boycott it, but invoking the Constitution is completely misunderstanding the purpose of that document.

Edited May 15, 2012 by TMF 18B

[Guest ab28]

Then don't go to that business. It is really that simple. Should I go to a black tie restaurant wearing board shorts and flip flops, then bitch that my 1st Amendment rights have been violated?

Private property is private property; it don't matter how many combat zones you go to or how much better you think you can handle a weapon. If I was a business owner and didn't want guns on my property that's my business. Don't like it then don't go there. Boycott it, encourage others to boycott it, but invoking the Constitution is completely misunderstanding the purpose of that document.

Well, if I won't let the government deny me my rights, why would I let a private citizen do so? The simple fact is, I don't trust many people to have the skill to protect me. I'd trust you if that number in your name is an MOS.

I don't really consider it private property if the public is there regularly. Something open to the public cannot be under the same rules as a private home. I generally don't go there, but me and a friend decided that we wanted to go to Hooter's one night, they were posted. We went ahead and carried, concealed. No one said anything, because we didn't, and we didn't let anyone see it. My life is more important than some business owner's rules. The way I see it, if I was in a business, and someone walked in and started shooting, I doubt I would be thankful that I had followed the rules. Rules always have an exception, and the way I see it, if they let cops carry there, I should be able to, as my training is equal or better, at least with a handgun. When it comes to how I protect myself, the decision is mine alone to make, not some business owner's.

I see the posting as something to appeal to both sides, anyways. The non gun owners think it is safe because no guns are there, the concealed people carry anyways, both sides are happy and no one the wiser.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ab28

[chances R]

A business open to the public cannot discriminate. IMO infringing on my constitutional rights, especially concealed carry is such an infringment equal to forbidding my entry due to my color. Neither my color or my CC imposes on the propery owner. Wearing shorts to a black tie function is not a constitutionally protected act and not an equal analogy.

[TMF]

So I should be able to walk into a business and start cursing as loud as I want and the owners should have no recourse to have me removed from the premises? 1st Amendment.

[TMF]

A business open to the public cannot discriminate. IMO infringing on my constitutional rights, especially concealed carry is such an infringment equal to forbidding my entry due to my color. Neither my color or my CC imposes on the propery owner. Wearing shorts to a black tie function is not a constitutionally protected act and not an equal analogy.

My manner of dress is a part of my freedom of speech. If the gov said I can't wear dresses that would be the Amendment I'd be fighting them under.

[chances R]

That's a stretch, and can be offensive to others or the property owner....stepping on toes if you will. CC is neither. TMF I really never guessed you had that side given your picture!

Edited May 15, 2012 by chances R

[DaveS]

Folks, we all talk about OUR rights to carry where we please. What about the RIGHTS of the other person/property owner? Does OUR RIGHTS with an HCP "trump" the RIGHTS of the person that don't want our weapons there? Everyone HAS RIGHTS...lets respect them! The "NO WEAPONS" sign posted on a business holds the same weight as "NO HUNTING", NO FISHING, NO TRESPASSING, NO WALKING ON THE GRASS! Our HCP's don't TRUMP the rights of others! Your rights to carry a weapon on other peoples property against their wishes is NOT a VIOLATION of your 2A rights! Carrying with an HCP is NOT a RIGHT...it's a PRIVILAGE granted to you via training, background check and a bunch of money. As a property owner, If I say NO WEAPONS...I MEAN NO WEAPONS....you'll be left sobbing in the corner if the right property owner catches you!

Most of ya'll fuss'n about about your "Rights" most likely have NO CLUE what the 2nd Ammendment says in detail. Please read it! I promise you one thing, go against a property owner in this situation, and they'll win everytime!

I love to carry more than anyone I know....ONLY where it's not posted!

I'm off my soapbox now....flame away!

Dave Sayre

Edited May 16, 2012 by wd-40

[DaveS]

Well, if I won't let the government deny me my rights, why would I let a private citizen do so? The simple fact is, I don't trust many people to have the skill to protect me. I'd trust you if that number in your name is an MOS.

I don't really consider it private property if the public is there regularly. Something open to the public cannot be under the same rules as a private home. I generally don't go there, but me and a friend decided that we wanted to go to Hooter's one night, they were posted. We went ahead and carried, concealed. No one said anything, because we didn't, and we didn't let anyone see it. My life is more important than some business owner's rules. The way I see it, if I was in a business, and someone walked in and started shooting, I doubt I would be thankful that I had followed the rules. Rules always have an exception, and the way I see it, if they let cops carry there, I should be able to, as my training is equal or better, at least with a handgun. When it comes to how I protect myself, the decision is mine alone to make, not some business owner's.

I see the posting as something to appeal to both sides, anyways. The non gun owners think it is safe because no guns are there, the concealed people carry anyways, both sides are happy and no one the wiser.

Did Tennessee change the law about carrying in places that serve Alcohol? I don't remember, that's why I'm asking. Besides, why would you want to carry past a sign? Kinda gives us all a bad name, I don't care what your MOS is/was!

Edited May 16, 2012 by wd-40

[Guest ab28]

Folks, we all talk about OUR rights to carry where we please. What about the RIGHTS of the other person/property owner? Does OUR RIGHTS with an HCP "trump" the RIGHTS of the person that don't want our weapons there? Everyone HAS RIGHTS...lets respect them! The "NO WEAPONS" sign posted on a business holds the same weight as "NO HUNTING", NO FISHING, NO TRESPASSING, NO WALKING ON THE GRASS! Our HCP's don't TRUMP the rights of others! Your rights to carry a weapon on other peoples property against their wishes is NOT a VIOLATION of your 2A rights! Carrying with an HCP is NOT a RIGHT...it's a PRIVILAGE granted to you via training, background check and a bunch of money. As a property owner, If I say NO WEAPONS...I MEAN NO WEAPONS....you'll be left sobbing in the corner if the right property owner catches you!

Most of ya'll fuss'n about about your "Rights" most likely have NO CLUE what the 2nd Ammendment says in detail. Please read it! I promise you one thing, go against a property owner in this situation, and they'll win everytime!

I love to carry more than anyone I know....ONLY where it's not posted!

I'm off my soapbox now....flame away!

Dave Sayre

It's more a matter of personal choice than anything. The gun I carry has nothing to do with anyone else, and it is none of their business. As for the "right" property owner catching me, like I said, I've never been made. If they did, and said something, I'd leave. If they wanted to pursue the matter and get aggressive with me, I'd defend myself with the appropriate amount of force. I carry anywhere that is not a federal building.

Did Tennessee change the law about carrying in places that serve Alcohol? I don't remember, that's why I'm asking. Besides, why would you want to carry past a sign? Kinda gives us all a bad name, I don't care what your MOS is/was!

You can carry if you are not drinking. The sign is meaningless, my life is more important than their property, and I don't trust anyone else to protect me. If some crazy guy came in shooting, I'd not want to die because of some stupid rule. It is a rarity, of course, but I would rather have the option to defend myself. Signs are retarded liberal BS, I don't honor crazy ideas like gun control.

I rarely carry anyways, I am on campus a lot. I just don't see some sign meaning anything. It won't stop a criminal carrying a gun there, therefore I should be armed.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ab28

[DaveS]

Look at it this way friend.....If you called a cop and say "Joe Schmuck has a NO GUNS ALLOWED sign on the door, you'd probably be advised not to GO IN. If a property owner called the police and complained, guess who will be ESCORTED from the property, YOU!

You just gave everyone of us LAW Biding citizens with a HCP a bad name. What a shame....

I'm done!

Dave Sayre

[Guest ab28]

Look at it this way friend.....If you called a cop and say "Joe Schmuck has a NO GUNS ALLOWED sign on the door, you'd probably be advised not to GO IN. If a property owner called the police and complained, guess who will be ESCORTED from the property, YOU!

You just gave everyone of us LAW Biding citizens with a HCP a bad name. What a shame....

I'm done!

Dave Sayre

The problem is, people are still seeing public businesses as private property, when they should have different rules. If the public is allowed in and out, there should be other rules. It has nothing to do with the LAW, it has to do with not honoring crazy ideas like gun control. I'm not getting shot just because some idiot didn't want guns on his property.

It has to be properly worded anyways. The Hooter's had a sign saying no berettas, I was carrying a glock. It had a 92F with a slash through it.

[Deerbnb]

The Hooter's had a sign saying no berettas, I was carrying a glock. It had a 92F with a slash through it.

not taking your side on this one but had to laugh, sounds like something my son would say (once upon a time I would have said it too)

[1pointofview]

I am sure this has been talked about but not going to read 6 pages worth of stuff. I believe in property rights but lets look at it based on current laws/ society norms. In society today, can I put up a store front and say "whites only", "No Blacks" or "Blacks sit in the Back"?

My question is this, if I in today's society you can not turn someone away because of race or nationality why is it that you can keep someone out of your establishment based on the fact you are carrying a legally obtained fire arm while carrying a legally obtained permit to exercise constitutionally guaranteed right?

[Oh Shoot]

....My question is this, if I in today's society you can not turn someone away because of race or nationality why is it that you can keep someone out of your establishment based on the fact you are carrying a legally obtained fire arm while carrying a legally obtained permit to exercise constitutionally guaranteed right?

1. because Handgun Carrier is not a protected class as per federal law

2. because your 2A right is infringed

other questions?

- OS

[1pointofview]

well handgun carrier is a protected class but society has chosen to suppress those civil rights. So in the debate of property rights vs personal rights, in one breath If you can be sued for discrimination if you don't hire a women, a person of color or a person of sexual preference I just do not see how keeping someone from their second amendment rights with the second breath

[Guest 270win]

I have rarely ever seen a legal 'no guns' sign in Arkansas. I think part of the reason is because concealing a handgun is required there so businesses don't think about it. I think the few that openly carry are the reason that businesses like Regions tried to stick up legal 500 dollar fine signs. It is obvious this attention is why there are a lot of these signs in downtown Memphis and Nashville.

Conceal and keep quiet. If it is legal to carry then carry quietly and secretly. Less attention is better.

[chances R]

wd, I simply have the viewpoint of 1point and ab in that public establishments say come on in, we are open to the public. That is different than a workplace, your home, or your farm. I do not have the constitutional right to hunt or fish or run across your property. Your property rights are the trump in that case. I have read the 2nd Adm., not really that hard or that long....in fact, it is much more brief than this post......

[Guest ab28]

Like I said, I don't carry into a posted business most of the time. We went to that Hooter's at night, in a bad part of town. My judgement said carry, I did. I carry or not based on my skill, gut instinct, ect, not whether there is a sign or not. Same as the stones river mall. It is in the list of rules, a tiny sentence at the end. No one could see it just walking towards the doors. I read the rules just out of curiosity. I had already been there several hours. I just think you should use your own judgement when carrying, and the opinion of a buisiness owner has absolutely no factor in it. I don't feel that my rights change based on the piece of property I am standing on.

I carried at work, although the contract said no firearms allowed by employees. Like the other guy said, "shall not be infringed" isn't hard to understand.

I mainly don't look like I carry because I am tall and slim with long hair and delicate features, basically what you would call a "prettyboy", though I am not gay. I was on the way to a modeling interview in Nashville and got off on the wrong exit, almost had to shoot a crackhead that was walking up to my car and asking for a ride 2 blocks away. I asked him if he wanted a 9mm haircut.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ab28

[DaveTN]

I was on the way to a modeling interview in Nashville and got off on the wrong exit, almost had to shoot a crackhead that was walking up to my car and asking for a ride 2 blocks away. I asked him if he wanted a 9mm haircut.

If he had called the Police and you were stopped, you were subject to arrest for felony aggravated assault.

[Guest A10thunderbolt]

The problem is, people are still seeing public businesses as private property, when they should have different rules. If the public is allowed in and out, there should be other rules. It has nothing to do with the LAW, it has to do with not honoring crazy ideas like gun control. I'm not getting shot just because some idiot didn't want guns on his property.

It has to be properly worded anyways. The Hooter's had a sign saying no berettas, I was carrying a glock. It had a 92F with a slash through it.

I believe If you own it, it is you property. Also trying to force someone to believe in a idea ( Such as Carrying is Ok) seldom works. I believe some people are just misinformed and could change their minds if you showed respect for them and their property, instead of trying to create a legal battle taking away their personal beliefs, They worked hard purchased property, and are doing their best to serve the public within their beliefs. You have the right to disagree and go somewhere else. We don't need more fighting among Americans, tit for tat has gotten us no where.

[Guest ab28]

If he had called the Police and you were stopped, you were subject to arrest for felony aggravated assault.

He was walking up to my window, asking for a ride repeatedly, 2 blocks away. I told him no, then told him to stop, he failed to do so. That was the next step. I was doing what I could to not have to shoot him. He didn't look like a fine, upstanding citizen, so I wasn't worried about him calling the cops, I was more worried about him walking up to my car window and pulling a knife. My response was appropriate for the situation, and I would not have been arrested. You never let someone walk up to your car window.

I don't see how I would have been arrested. No one asks for a ride 2 blocks away, I had a hunch he was setting me up, and I acted on it. Any police officer would agree.

I believe If you own it, it is you property. Also trying to force someone to believe in a idea ( Such as Carrying is Ok) seldom works. I believe some people are just misinformed and could change their minds if you showed respect for them and their property, instead of trying to create a legal battle taking away their personal beliefs, They worked hard purchased property, and are doing their best to serve the public within their beliefs. You have the right to disagree and go somewhere else. We don't need more fighting among Americans, tit for tat has gotten us no where.

I see your reasoning, but do you feel that someone else's property is worth your life? That is why I carry anyways, it is not out of disrespect, it is the fact that that store is not worth dying for. I am not trying to create a legal battle, make a statement, force anyone to believe in an idea, or anything else. I mind my own business, carry my handgun, and keep my mouth shut. No one is the wiser. All rules have exceptions, and that one is ludicrous enough to be ignored. I rarely carry into a posted business anyways, usually go somewhere else. But the circumstances that night gave me a judgement call to carry anyways. I have to be the one to make that decision, it is strange to think that someone else should have a say in my own personal defense, I really don't understand the concept.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ab28

[TMF]

I see your reasoning, but do you feel that someone else's property is worth your life? That is why I carry anyways, it is not out of disrespect, it is the fact that that store is not worth dying for.

Then don't go there. It is that simple. You are the one CHOOSING to go to a posted business apparently at great risk of death.

Do you have a right to peaceful assembly? Not at Hooters you don't. If you wanted to have a peaceful protest for gun rights inside of Hooters they can kick you out, the same as if they catch you carrying.

Don't get me wrong, I understand some of what you're saying and I don't believe it should be a crime to carry past a gunbuster, but it is. If it wasn't a crime I'd carry concealed past the sign all day, BUT I respect the business owner's right to tell me to leave if I'm caught. That is the part you're missing here. Businesses have rights too, and if you don't like it don't go there... it's so easy a caveman can do it. Besides, how come you're okay with having your "rights" taken away on campus but not at Hooters? There have been far more college shootings than Hooters shootings.

Edited May 16, 2012 by TMF 18B

[tnhawk]

Well, if you have to look 'extra hard' to see the sign, it's not a valid sign anyway.......carry on.

I usually scan the entrances for signs but if it isn't easily visible I might miss it repeatedly.

[Guest Nikator]

He had to "post" his store not because he didn't want anyone to carry, but because his INSURANCE company said so! By the store being posted, that takes the "liability" off his insurance if a customer or "bad guy" gets shot in the store.

I work as a multi line insurance adjuster. I am unaware of any clause in standard commercial policies that require businesses to post a sign about firearms. I'm calling BS on his excuse. Its easy to blame it on insurance to avoid having to admit that he made the call to post.

Posting the sign does not remove liability.It might show that you attempted to prevent guns in the store. It might also have the exact opposite affect. If someone was shot in the store they could argue that the owner forbid legally carried guns, putting them at higher risk becuase those with the ability to protect were prevented from entering.