2nd trip, 1st shot of the day

[Guest Bill'dYourOwnGun]

I'm new to firearms, though I've owned my Glock 17 for around 2 years. My first trip to shoot the Glock yielded very poor hits...or very good misses.

My 2nd trip to shoot it was on 8/27, two weeks after first shooting the G17, and my first shot of that day is in the picture embedded in this message.

However all other shots were *way* off. I was shooting from a distance of about 20 to 30 feet, there was a bit of wind that day, and as you can see the sun was in the background. Still, I made that first shot and not sure why I wasn't able to follow up. Lots of holes in the saw horse though.

[Guest bkelm18]

We all start somewhere. You'll get better in time. Trigger control and breathing are pretty much key. Don't be afraid to start closer to the target and work your way back.

[Jonnin]

Shoot slowly at first. Glocks enhance recoil a bit, and if you fire fast, you will miss the follow up shots if you do not have an excellent grip (including strong wrists and arms) and a good stance. Accuracy and skill are the first things to build, speed comes naturally with practice as you gain skill. There are many instructional videos on line, and you can buy instruction as well, but for now just practice putting each shot on target, one at a time, at your own pace, and from there you will make steady progress. Enjoy the practice, its supposed to be fun even if you miss some -- when you become frustrated with it, put it down and try another day.

[Guest Bill'dYourOwnGun]

I did try one of the instructional videos that was posted in one of the forums here. I did the dry fire testing before my 2nd trip, and worked my way to keeping the gun steady while pulling the trigger. I think my grip was wrong after the first shot, and based on what ya'll are saying, the 'shock'? of that first shot may be causing me to alter my grip and/or throw off my focus. I was giving about 10 to 15 seconds between 1st and follow up shots on the first mag. Next mag I tried firing fast and it did no good either. I'm not in a hurry to go through ammo, so slow and accurate, for now, is what matters.

I'll give a try at shooting accurately at a shorter distance. I'll deal with speed after I've got accurate-at-a-distance taken care of.

Thanks a bunch.

[rgaper]

We all start somewhere. You'll get better in time. Trigger control and breathing are pretty much key. Don't be afraid to start closer to the target and work your way back.

This. Most basic pistol classes will start at 3 yards or less, so this is good advice.

When first getting started it's more important to "do it right" than anything else. If you start off with bad habits, it'll take a lot of work to fix them. Sounds like you are approaching it the right way - good luck and shoot safe.

[Guest Victor9er]

We all start somewhere. You'll get better in time. Trigger control and breathing are pretty much key. Don't be afraid to start closer to the target and work your way back.

+1

I'm new to guns also, and I've noticed a few things that greatly affect accuracy. Like the others mentioned, breathing plays a part in it. Also, your grip on the gun can affect how your finger falls on the trigger. Too much or not enough of your finger on the trigger can cause you to be off. I'll give you an example...

I have a gen4 Glock 19 and it felt great in my hand straight out of the box. (one of the reasons I chose it) Well after shooting it a few times I noticed I kept pulling my shots to the right a little. So I decided to try one of the thicker backstraps to see if it would change anything. I put the medium one on and bingo, immediate difference. What it did was it added a little more to the back of the handle, thus forcing my trigger finger back just a bit. It was enough of a difference that my finger rested differently on the trigger and allowed me to pull the trigger easier without pulling the gun.

Also, I find sometimes I still anticipate the recoil and I end up pushing the gun down before I shoot, which ends up in a very low shot. That's what the dry firing excercise is supposed to help with, I need to work on that some more myself.

But my biggest question for you is... you said you've had your gun for 2 years... why the hell did you wait so long to shoot it? Stop talking on these forums and get back out to the range, you need to sling some more lead through that puppy man!

[Guest tngw1500se]

Looks like a field behind the jug. Are you sure it's safe to shoot there? You should find a hillside to shoot into.

[Fourtyfive]

Shoot with a friend that has been shooting for a while , it will build your confidence and aim. Do not become discouraged , have you been carrying for 2 years and not shot the pistol since , was this the first time you hit the "target" ? Just curious , are you a carry permit holder ?

[Garufa]

Somebody post up the correction target.

[Guest bkelm18]

Somebody post up the correction target.

Drum roll please...

[UncleJak]

I find if I don't try to be a good shot I will be a good shot, and if i try to be a good shot, I won't. So now i just shoot and have become a fabulous shot by not caring if I hit it or not. (but I do hit it...seems weird but it works for me) I wish I could make more sense but maybe you just have to be there...

[Dolomite_supafly]

I will offer this, which I have never done on here before.

If you are ever in the Knoxville area I'll help you out to make sure you have the fundementals correct. I have helped out close friends and family with their gun related "issues" and most results have been positive.

I too was absolutely miserable with my G17. It took some serious one on one training by a Gunsite instructor as well as a few other instructors from other camps as well as a lot of practice. Finally I figured it out with their help. I eventually sold the Glock because even though I shot it good it wasn't up to what I felt I was capable of. I have a few other pistols and I can shoot all of them much better than the Glock.

I am far from an expert shot with a pistol, matter of fact I am on the other end of the spectrum. I have to work at how well I shoot by practicing 3-5 times a week just to keep up skills. If nothing else I go shoot a mag just to work on sight picture. This leads me to the first and most important thing which is practice, even if you are only dry firing it will help. The only problem is if you have bad habits then you are only going to reinforce those.

And when you are shooting you need to practice for the primary use. If you are going to be target shooting then that is what you need to concentrate on. On the other hand if it is a defensive pistol you need to practice at the likely self defense distances which, statistically, is up to 7 yards. Also, shooting at jugs isn't optimal for defensive practice. Make some cheap target stands and get some man sized targets. With a 8" wide jug what you think is a miss would be a lethal hit on a human.\

If you can't make it to the Knoxville area I am sure there are a few others on here that will match my offer that are in your area.

Dolomite

[Fourtyfive]

Nice Dolomite.

[MattCary]

dolomite +1 cool factor rating.

[Guest Bill'dYourOwnGun]

I will offer this, which I have never done on here before.

If you are ever in the Knoxville area I'll help you out to make sure you have the fundementals correct. I have helped out close friends and family with their gun related "issues" and most results have been positive.

I too was absolutely miserable with my G17. It took some serious one on one training by a Gunsite instructor as well as a few other instructors from other camps as well as a lot of practice. Finally I figured it out with their help. I eventually sold the Glock because even though I shot it good it wasn't up to what I felt I was capable of. I have a few other pistols and I can shoot all of them much better than the Glock.

I am far from an expert shot with a pistol, matter of fact I am on the other end of the spectrum. I have to work at how well I shoot by practicing 3-5 times a week just to keep up skills. If nothing else I go shoot a mag just to work on sight picture. This leads me to the first and most important thing which is practice, even if you are only dry firing it will help. The only problem is if you have bad habits then you are only going to reinforce those.

And when you are shooting you need to practice for the primary use. If you are going to be target shooting then that is what you need to concentrate on. On the other hand if it is a defensive pistol you need to practice at the likely self defense distances which, statistically, is up to 7 yards. Also, shooting at jugs isn't optimal for defensive practice. Make some cheap target stands and get some man sized targets. With a 8" wide jug what you think is a miss would be a lethal hit on a human.\

If you can't make it to the Knoxville area I am sure there are a few others on here that will match my offer that are in your area.

Dolomite

Thank you *very* much for the offer, Dolomite. Unfortnately I'm too far away, in Gallatin. I do see what you are saying and yes, this is for defensive use. I will make the changes you recommended.

Some of the other reading I've done shows that some folks change out the springs on the G17 because the factory one allows for too much of the recoil to be transferred to the gun. And yes, the other shots would have hit an attacker in the legs and the abdomen, but that wasn't where I was aiming.

To other posts:

1. i'm completely new to firearms - actually firing them....though in high school (1982 or 1983) I did a report on machine guns mac 10, uzi, H&K (but can't remember which model), the M16 (of which I had a solid cast replica I brought to school for the book report...can't do that today!)

2. I got the G17 due to violence spreading out from nashville, and the fact a baseball bat or Co2 BB/Pellet gun wouldn't cut it against most 2 legged threats

3. I don't have a HCP...yet - though I do believe the class could do a world of wonders for helping me learn more. I don't believe I would use a Glock as a carry, though. Personal preference about the safety.

4. My Sunday school teacher lets me shoot on his land. I'm shooting in the same place he shoots his .357, though I don't know ... does the 9mm travel farther because it is lighter than a .357 or should that be fine? He has fired my G17 and I haven't done anything different than what he was doing.

5. I've waited 2 years to fire the gun because I never feared using it to defend my family. I believe that if someone had broken in I could have used the gun correctly. Now, however, the bug has bitten me and, as my user id says, I want to build my own gun. Most likely an AR15 type with a .22 LR upper.

I truly appreciate all the advice and encouragement I've received here. And all the previous posts, recent and old, that have guided others to become better at using their handguns. It may turn out that the Glock is not the gun for me for target practice, and that is fine. But for home defense, I want something I know that will shoot and so far, the Glock seems to be the 'go to' handgun for that.

I am heading out to try the G17 again Saturday. Will give some of my old cardboard DELL computer boxes the opportunity to sacrifice themselves for the good of my family.

Hope everyone has a great labor day weekend!

[Guest Bill'dYourOwnGun]

Dang, bkelm18, I think that wheel has it in for me! I think the recoil expectation and poor trigger pull are getting me. I'll print that out and take with me Saturday. Thanks!

[UncleJak]

Dolomite is super, +1 for him. He has inspired me. I am no expert, but I am a pretty decent shot with glocks. I live in Portland, so I'll offer to help if needed.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Thank you *very* much for the offer, Dolomite. Unfortnately I'm too far away, in Gallatin. I do see what you are saying and yes, this is for defensive use. I will make the changes you recommended.

At any rate if you ever do make it this way my offer will stand.

Some of the other reading I've done shows that some folks change out the springs on the G17 because the factory one allows for too much of the recoil to be transferred to the gun. And yes, the other shots would have hit an attacker in the legs and the abdomen, but that wasn't where I was aiming.

Leave the gun as is and learn to use it. The recoil isn't that substantial that at a definsive shooting distance the recoil is going to cause you to miss. Test this when you go out. Take one of the cardboard targets and set it up. Take up a good solid, shooting position 3 steps away with the gun drawn and ready to fire. Fire two shots as quickly as you can. You will see that the rounds should both be on the cardboard. Even though they aren't on top of each other they are still going to be hits on target. Now that same spread at a 25 yard target will reqard you with at least one miss but 25 yards isn't a defensive shooting distance either, statistically speaking.

To other posts:

1. i'm completely new to firearms - actually firing them....though in high school (1982 or 1983) I did a report on machine guns mac 10, uzi, H&K (but can't remember which model), the M16 (of which I had a solid cast replica I brought to school for the book report...can't do that today!)

2. I got the G17 due to violence spreading out from nashville, and the fact a baseball bat or Co2 BB/Pellet gun wouldn't cut it against most 2 legged threats

All the cops as well as civillians using Glocks can't be wrong. The G17 is a fine piece that should go bang every time.

3. I don't have a HCP...yet - though I do believe the class could do a world of wonders for helping me learn more. I don't believe I would use a Glock as a carry, though. Personal preference about the safety.

Glocks are actually one of the safer pistols out there, even without a manual safety. In the heat of the moment I would rather have a gun like a Glock or a revolver than one that has one or multiple safeties. You would be surprized how how your motor skills go to hell under stress, especially the fine ones. Pulling the trigger is a gross motor skill while flipping the safety on some guns is what I would consider a fine motor skill.

4. My Sunday school teacher lets me shoot on his land. I'm shooting in the same place he shoots his .357, though I don't know ... does the 9mm travel farther because it is lighter than a .357 or should that be fine? He has fired my G17 and I haven't done anything different than what he was doing.

Nothing to worry about.

5. I've waited 2 years to fire the gun because I never feared using it to defend my family. I believe that if someone had broken in I could have used the gun correctly. Now, however, the bug has bitten me and, as my user id says, I want to build my own gun. Most likely an AR15 type with a .22 LR upper.

This is what I do 90% of my training with or at least did train with. I had a conversion that I had at least 15K rounds throguh before I went to a dedicated. I am about 1/2 way to that mark with the dedicated now. When I would come home between trips I would practice nearly every day to keep my skills up. Most days were 1,000 rounds with most being rimfire. I would generally end the sessions with a mag of 5.56.

I truly appreciate all the advice and encouragement I've received here. And all the previous posts, recent and old, that have guided others to become better at using their handguns. It may turn out that the Glock is not the gun for me for target practice, and that is fine. But for home defense, I want something I know that will shoot and so far, the Glock seems to be the 'go to' handgun for that.

I am heading out to try the G17 again Saturday. Will give some of my old cardboard DELL computer boxes the opportunity to sacrifice themselves for the good of my family.

And finally remember this. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. That is start out slowly making sure everything you are doing is correct and most importantly SAFE. Then keep the same smooth, steady actions and increase the speed until you see a degradation of accuracy. And as far as accuracy goes it needs to be what would be expected for what you are practicing for. People shooting bullseye or some other form of target shooting take their time but are rewarded with tight groups. In a self defense situation you need not worry with taking your time to get a decent group, only getting hits on target.

Hope everyone has a great labor day weekend!

See above.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

Thank you *very* much for the offer, Dolomite. Unfortnately I'm too far away, in Gallatin. I do see what you are saying and yes, this is for defensive use. I will make the changes you recommended.

Some of the other reading I've done shows that some folks change out the springs on the G17 because the factory one allows for too much of the recoil to be transferred to the gun. And yes, the other shots would have hit an attacker in the legs and the abdomen, but that wasn't where I was aiming.

To other posts:

1. i'm completely new to firearms - actually firing them....though in high school (1982 or 1983) I did a report on machine guns mac 10, uzi, H&K (but can't remember which model), the M16 (of which I had a solid cast replica I brought to school for the book report...can't do that today!)

2. I got the G17 due to violence spreading out from nashville, and the fact a baseball bat or Co2 BB/Pellet gun wouldn't cut it against most 2 legged threats

3. I don't have a HCP...yet - though I do believe the class could do a world of wonders for helping me learn more. I don't believe I would use a Glock as a carry, though. Personal preference about the safety.

4. My Sunday school teacher lets me shoot on his land. I'm shooting in the same place he shoots his .357, though I don't know ... does the 9mm travel farther because it is lighter than a .357 or should that be fine? He has fired my G17 and I haven't done anything different than what he was doing.

5. I've waited 2 years to fire the gun because I never feared using it to defend my family. I believe that if someone had broken in I could have used the gun correctly. Now, however, the bug has bitten me and, as my user id says, I want to build my own gun. Most likely an AR15 type with a .22 LR upper.

I truly appreciate all the advice and encouragement I've received here. And all the previous posts, recent and old, that have guided others to become better at using their handguns. It may turn out that the Glock is not the gun for me for target practice, and that is fine. But for home defense, I want something I know that will shoot and so far, the Glock seems to be the 'go to' handgun for that.

I am heading out to try the G17 again Saturday. Will give some of my old cardboard DELL computer boxes the opportunity to sacrifice themselves for the good of my family.

Hope everyone has a great labor day weekend!

3) Do not count on it, the class does teach you a lot about safety and what you can and cannot do, where you can and cannot go armed, etc, but its not a marksmanship/shooting/self defense class. If you cannot hit the man sized target at 10 yards or so, they will try to help and offer some pointers but there are just a couple of instructors/range officers for the 20 or so students and no time for one on one help. They sort of expect you to be able to hit the target by this time so your practice now is very important to passing the shooting part of the class. Its not hard, and one day you will see what I mean by that, but you need some more range time before you try to pass this test.

4) Ballistics is complicated. A 357 will go farther usually, but not by much, but its a "package deal" not just the mass of the bullet. Its a combination of how much powder is behind it, how heavy it is, how long the barrel of the gun is, aerodynamics of the bullet in question, and more. But one of the 4 important rules of firearm safety is to know what is behind your target. (There are a list of 10 that I disagree with, lets leave it at that, the list of 4 is sufficient and covers all the things that matter). Its your job to KNOW what is behind your target and where your bullets are ending up. Is there a hill, berm, or group of trees back there to stop the bullet? Or some guys house?! Or what? Find out, for your own peace of mind. (the 4 rules in short: treat all guns as loaded, never point the muzzle at anything/anyone you do not want to sprout a hole, know what is behind the target, keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire).

5) Shooting is fun! A good .22 saves a lot of ammo costs and is a lot of fun, we shoot our .22 pistols and rifles probably 50% of the time. I personally would just buy a good .22 rifle and build the AR in a true rifle caliber, but that is just me. That way you get 2 guns, and can learn rifle skills with the 22 while the other one is still in pieces.

[Guest FiddleDog]

I'm pretty close to you and I can PM you the next time I hit the range. I've got a new CM-9 coming to me, so I'll need to head to the range sometime soon to break it in. Also, the RO's at the TWRA Hunter Education Center are very helpful. Try shooting at that range, see if you can get a line close to the desk, and ask for help often. The Glock is a great platform, but can take some getting used to.

Just out of curiosity, are you hooking the trigger guard with the index finger on your support hand? If so, that can pull a shot left and down pretty hard...

[Guest motonut]

Thank you *very* much for the offer, Dolomite. Unfortnately I'm too far away, in Gallatin. I do see what you are saying and yes, this is for defensive use. I will make the changes you recommended.

Some of the other reading I've done shows that some folks change out the springs on the G17 because the factory one allows for too much of the recoil to be transferred to the gun. And yes, the other shots would have hit an attacker in the legs and the abdomen, but that wasn't where I was aiming.

To other posts:

1. i'm completely new to firearms - actually firing them....though in high school (1982 or 1983) I did a report on machine guns mac 10, uzi, H&K (but can't remember which model), the M16 (of which I had a solid cast replica I brought to school for the book report...can't do that today!)

2. I got the G17 due to violence spreading out from nashville, and the fact a baseball bat or Co2 BB/Pellet gun wouldn't cut it against most 2 legged threats

3. I don't have a HCP...yet - though I do believe the class could do a world of wonders for helping me learn more. I don't believe I would use a Glock as a carry, though. Personal preference about the safety.

4. My Sunday school teacher lets me shoot on his land. I'm shooting in the same place he shoots his .357, though I don't know ... does the 9mm travel farther because it is lighter than a .357 or should that be fine? He has fired my G17 and I haven't done anything different than what he was doing.

5. I've waited 2 years to fire the gun because I never feared using it to defend my family. I believe that if someone had broken in I could have used the gun correctly. Now, however, the bug has bitten me and, as my user id says, I want to build my own gun. Most likely an AR15 type with a .22 LR upper.

I truly appreciate all the advice and encouragement I've received here. And all the previous posts, recent and old, that have guided others to become better at using their handguns. It may turn out that the Glock is not the gun for me for target practice, and that is fine. But for home defense, I want something I know that will shoot and so far, the Glock seems to be the 'go to' handgun for that.

I am heading out to try the G17 again Saturday. Will give some of my old cardboard DELL computer boxes the opportunity to sacrifice themselves for the good of my family.

Hope everyone has a great labor day weekend!

I'm just south of Gallatin and use the indoor range at Asherbranner's Pawn Shop (Sam is the gunsmith there too) quite regularly. The range is not fancy by any means but it works just fine for me esp. since I go during the week and rarely is anyone else there. I like indoor ranges better for getting your grip, sight picture and fundamentals down, I think there are more distractions at an outdoor one. After you have the basics down outdoor ranges are fantastic.

Anyhow, if you'd like to meet up there some weekday send me a PM. I'm not an expert shot by any stretch of the imagination but I do hit the bulls eye once in a while. Hopefully I can at least get you going in the right direction.

[Guest Big-A]

Id try shooting at a large paper target with a small bright target in the center. You can see where your hitting and walk em to the target till you know where to hold your sights.

[JAB]

I find if I don't try to be a good shot I will be a good shot, and if i try to be a good shot, I won't. So now i just shoot and have become a fabulous shot by not caring if I hit it or not. (but I do hit it...seems weird but it works for me) I wish I could make more sense but maybe you just have to be there...

I have one even stranger than that - the absolute best shooting I have done with just about any handgun I have ever fired is almost always the first mag/cylinder full I put through it. I have actually sometimes amazed myself with how good a shot I could (potentially) be. Then I load up a second time, everything goes back to my normal (which is to say not as good) shooting and I spend months/years trying to shoot the same gun as well as I did that very first time.

Id try shooting at a large paper target with a small bright target in the center. You can see where your hitting and walk em to the target till you know where to hold your sights.

I am not a great shot - I'd say my shooting is 'serviceable' but that is exactly what I was going to recommend. I enjoy shooting (or shooting at, as is the case, sometimes) eight inch 'bullseye' targets and I do think they help build accuracy even for SD type shooting. That said, IMO nothing tells me where my shots would fall in an SD situation like a B27 (human silhouette) target. There are also some pretty inexpensive paper targets at WalMart that have a bigger target area (I think it is a 10 inch target) on a larger piece of paper (iirc, the paper, itself is 12 by 12.) I have used those in the past, shooting from about ten yards, to figure out how badly I am off so I could correct my grip or aim, zero in adjustable sights or whatever.

Edited September 2, 2011 by JAB

[Guest Bill'dYourOwnGun]

So I combined all the advice everyone has given me and yes, there are some jugs of water that will never hold anything again. (picture below)

The distance was roughly 10 feet, the jugs were on the ground, and popping the lids off of each jug on the first shot at each of the jugs was very cool.

I only emptied one magazine at the jugs, and once the water was gone from the first shots it wasn't much fun. I had just finished a few laps on my dirtbike, it was over 100 degrees out and I was exhausted, so I headed home. I am satisfied in my self defense shooting, but look forward to visiting a range to improve/keep up my skills. Since I run my own business my schedule is wacky and I can only do this when I have time.

Thanks again, to everyone, for their words of wisdom.

[Louisb]

My first guess would be to wear plugs or muffs when shooting.

Next suggestion requires NO expenditure of ammo,

Remove loaded magazine and get it away from the area where you plan to do the following drill

Clear gun, remove magazine,

Clear gun

check chamber to assure gun in unloaded,

Practice trigger control

Then throw in trigger control and sight alignment and practice,

then trigger control, sight alignment and sight picture and practice,

Then throw in live fire exercise

Low volume of fire, but well placed shots is your goal for a long time with a pistol.