Open Carry triggers school lock-down -- Police say HCP holder did nothing wrong

[Guest Pig957]

I'm not sure about this school, but in all the other places I know...in TN a "School Resource Officer" is a certified LEO for whatever Police orSheriff's Dept the scholl is located in.

I stand corrected. I should have researched "School Resource Officer". I did learn something today.

[Guest WingMan380]

I read threads like this and I wonder why I bother being a member of this forum. There are some stupid @$$ rednecks on here! Then I go read intelligent and prudent threads and remember why I keep coming back. Im sure someone had to look up "prudent".

[Guest Pig957]

P.S. I see no reason why you want feel the need to insult by insinuating that my statements are "liberal thinking"

A right is God given and guaranteed by the U. S. Constitution.

A privilege is granted by the government and may be revolved at a whim.

I n order to deny us our rights, Liberals proclaim rights to be privileges, which can be changed, replaced or removed at will.

[RobertNashville]

A right is God given and guaranteed by the U. S. Constitution.

A privilege is granted by the government and may be revolved at a whim.

I n order to deny us our rights, Liberals proclaim rights to be privileges, which can be changed, replaced or removed at will.

Did anyone say otherwise? Is there some reason why you want to discuss a point that no on disagrees with? There may be a few members here on TGO who don't but I suspect most people who frequent this forum understand what the U.S. Constitution says and what it means with regards to the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms but there is what the Constitution says and then there are the laws we MUST live under today, both Federal laws and the laws here in Tennessee.

As I said before, the Tennessee Constitution has granted the authority to the legislature to regulate the wearing of arms and they have so regulated. Until the law in Tennessee is changed, I do not have the legal authority or the "right" to carry a firearm on my person in public without a permit, issued by the state, that says I can do so...further, my permit can be withdrawn; perhaps not necessarily on a "whim" but it can certainly be withdrawn (as as one of our HCP holders found out not too long ago).

That regulation effectively makes my "going armed" a privilege whether you want to call it that or not and whether it should be or not...that is not "liberal thinking", at least not on my part...that's just the way it is.

Edited September 15, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest No Ammo]

That was at my son's school. I saw several cop cars rushing in that direction with their lights going, then several more staked out around the school. When we got there, a teacher was rushing the kids into the school.

I totally understand the concept of concealed carry to not "spook the horses", but I wonder if more people did open carry (on the street, not at the mall) if the sheeple would become more accustomed to it and not react so abruptly and cause such a scene.

+1

[Guest Pig957]

RobertNashville,

you seemed insulted that I said you were thinking like a Liberal, which is my point - you are.

I do not like the restrictions that the law has placed on my right to bear arms any more than the next. However, you seem to be overly accepting of the law as it stands. As law biding citizens, we are bound to following the law, but we also have the right to fight to change the law. You seem to have the attitude that "the law is what it is and I must live with it." The people here in Indiana were successful in making some good changes this year in the area of the 2A. I hope the good citizens of Tennessee have as much good fortune as we have in turning privileges back into rights.

[RobertNashville]

RobertNashville,

you seemed insulted that I said you were thinking like a Liberal, which is my point - you are.

I do not like the restrictions that the law has placed on my right to bear arms any more than the next. However, you seem to be overly accepting of the law as it stands. As law biding citizens, we are bound to following the law, but we also have the right to fight to change the law. You seem to have the attitude that "the law is what it is and I must live with it." The people here in Indiana were successful in making some good changes this year in the area of the 2A. I hope the good citizens of Tennessee have as much good fortune as we have in turning privileges back into rights.

Yes, given that I've been a firearms enthusiast and a conservative all my life, I am insulted to be called a liberal or told that I'm "thinking like a liberal"; especially so when the accusation comes from someone who doesn't know me - to me, that SEEMS like Bovine Scatology. Who are you to decide anything about me, label me or take me to task on what you perceive to be my position on an issue we weren't even discussing in this thread? You have a lot of gull and poor manners to come onto a forum geared to firearm enthusiasts in Tennessee (a state you don't live in) and make assumptions about and apply labels to someone you have never met and know nothing about.

It's also odd to make such assumptions when the "issue" you seem intent on making is immaterial to the point that was being made - my citing the law (Post 130) which you took exception to had nothing directly to do with the Second Amendment.- it was not nor was it intended to be a commentary on the rightness or wrongness, nor the constitutionality or lack of same with regards to Tennessee law as it currently stands. I cited the law to emphasize that refusing to use discretion about how and when and where someone carries a firearm in public can harm both their own ability to continue to carry in this state (under current law) as well as harm the carry population in this state in general. Even more odd that you want to continue to label me when I've already stated that I fully agree that we are supposed to have the right to keep and bear arms and that I understand the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" - why you seem to feel the need to infer anything else about my position on the matter makes it seem like you just want to find something to argue about.

There is nothing wrong with living in Indiana and belonging to the Tennessee Gun Owners forum...likewise, there is nothing wrong with and you certainly can hold any opinion you want on anything or anyone you want, including opinions about me...however, insulting someone you don't know is at best, childish and, in my opinion, isn't acceptable conduct on a forum whether you are in Tennessee or Indiana.

Edited September 16, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest WyattEarp]

He was legal. I've always felt that open carry was asking for trouble, but I'm starting to swing the other way. I am TOTALLY fed up with panic stricken idiots. Lock-downs, evacuations, and junk fondling at the airport. :panic:

just to goes to prove that the average American, is a fear stricken coward that's scared of his own shadow. The terrorists have succeeded in making Americans cower in fear, at the sight of a weapon, or in the presence of Muslims.

buncha pansy candy ass sheep. oh no a gun! whatever shall we do?!?

[RobertNashville]

just to goes to prove that the average American, is a fear stricken coward that's scared of his own shadow. The terrorists have succeeded in making Americans cower in fear, at the sight of a weapon, or in the presence of Muslims...

And don't you think, just possibly, that with such a fear now ingrained in many people (justified or not) that we (those who do carry) need to be mindful of when and were and the possible reaction we'll get?

There are times to push the envelope...there are times to be discrete and go unnoticed...the key is knowing which one to be and when.

[DaveTN]

the key is knowing which one to be and when.

[MississippiBoy]

Just my two cents, but as a guy who has studied past school shootings from a psychological aspect. I am glad that they locked down the school. My wife is a teacher and if someone is seen with a weapon near her school I would rather them be safe then sorry. The police did the correct thing by checking on a situation where multiple people stated concerns about the safety of children. As far as discussion about open carry, I personally don't want someone to know I am carrying. I believe that most criminals are not stupid. If they see my weapon before I see that they are a threat, I lose my edge and become their first target.

Also my "safe versus sorry" logic is why I carry a gun as often as possible.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

As far as discussion about open carry, I personally don't want someone to know I am carrying. I believe that most criminals are not stupid. If they see my weapon before I see that they are a threat, I lose my edge and become their first target.

Criminals don't target people with guns. They target people that look like sheep.

And sorry, criminals are stupid. If they were smart they wouldn't be criminals.

[RobertNashville]

Criminals don't target people with guns.

Other than scattered anecdotal stories; that's opinion. It maybe right or it maybe wrong but still opinion.

There is significant evidence/research to show that an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime. However, I've not found any research that quantifies whether criminals do or don't target "people with guns".

They target people that look like sheep.

Generally true (except where the potential reward is significant enough to overcome the risk of targeting a sheepdog). However, carrying openly doesn't make one a sheepdog nor does carrying concealed make one a sheep.

And sorry, criminals are stupid. If they were smart they wouldn't be criminals.

Some are and some aren't and even the stupid wolf can be very dangerous, even to a well trained sheepdog.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Other than scattered anecdotal stories; that's opinion. It maybe right or it maybe wrong but still opinion.

There is significant evidence/research to show that an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime. However, I've not found any research that quantifies whether criminals do or don't target "people with guns".

Generally true (except where the potential reward is significant enough to overcome the risk of targeting a sheepdog). However, carrying openly doesn't make one a sheepdog nor does carrying concealed make one a sheep.

Some are and some aren't and even the stupid wolf can be very dangerous, even to a well trained sheepdog.

why are you still reading my posts?

2. Nothing else you have to say on the subject deserves to be read.

[RobertNashville]

why are you still reading my posts?

It gives my mind a rest.

[hornett22]

And don't you think, just possibly, that with such a fear now ingrained in many people (justified or not) that we (those who do carry) need to be mindful of when and were and the possible reaction we'll get?

There are times to push the envelope...there are times to be discrete and go unnoticed...the key is knowing which one to be and when.

No,i do not. Makes us just as bad as them.

[macville]

I just want to point out that pretty much in everything else, when people push the envelope (sex outside marriage, homosexuality, drugs, to name some big ones) that they become normal in society. Do we expect people to get comfortable with people carrying firearms if they have no clue how many people are carrying them? Is there a way for them to get comfortable without them knowing?

[TMF]

If I see someone open carry it doesn't bother me at all or make me uncomfortable. I understand that it makes many people who are not familiar with firearms very uncomfortable, and I don't think it is somehow my duty to educate them or change their opinion. I don't open carry for the same reason I don't wear loud t-shirts exclaiming my political opinions. Both are exercising my constitutional rights, but both are also drawing unneccessary attention to myself. I don't carry to make a statement or be an activist, I carry to protect my wife, kids and myself.

[RobertNashville]

I just want to point out that pretty much in everything else, when people push the envelope (sex outside marriage, homosexuality, drugs, to name some big ones) that they become normal in society. Do we expect people to get comfortable with people carrying firearms if they have no clue how many people are carrying them? Is there a way for them to get comfortable without them knowing?

I don't expect people to be comfortable with others carrying a weapon...frankly, whether or not other people are or aren't comfortable with people carrying weapons is a secondary, even a minor issue. At the same time, I try not to carry in such a way that it makes others uncomfortable or in a way/in an area where it can cause a problem - I don't need that headache and, at least in my opinion, it can lead to a backlash against all of us who carry.

I would suggest that most of the angst against people carrying weapons isn't about whether the weapon is carried openly or concealed...it isn't about whether it's "normal" or not...sometimes it is based on fear and and a lack of experience with/understanding of firearms but I truly believe, more often than not, it's based outright hatred of firearms in general. For those people, I find it odd to think that seeing others carrying a weapon openly is going to change their minds about the issue; in fact, it might well just reinforce their hatred of all things "firearms".

I don't carry to make a political statement - I work on bettering weapon's related laws through the political process both directly through my own meager efforts and through my membership in and donations to groups that do the same.

I don't carry to change people's attitudes about or comfort level with firearms...I do that by taking people to the range with me and through discussion and through being their friend.

I don't carry to draw attention to myself (in fact, I would rather do precisely the opposite).

Like TMF 18B stated, I carry to have a tool to protect my life and maybe the life of some other innocent person.

Edited September 18, 2011 by RobertNashville

[East_TN_Patriot]

Perhaps walking within sight of the school crossing guard while open carrying wasn't the smartest thing to do. Regarding the "lock down"... Put yourself in the cops' position. What else could they do? It's a school. Could you live with the consequences of under-reacting to a perceived threat?

I agree with this statement and again point out the problems associated with open carry. I've said here many times before that given the current social attitudes, OC is a bad idea. Even when I was a LEO, most agencies I am familiar with required their officers to conceal their duty weapon when in plain clothes just for this reason. I understand the tactical reasons one may prefer to carry concealed, but the reality of the majority of shootings is that open carry wouldn't give you much of a tactical advantage if any at all. Police open carry in uniform because they are actively seeking out and engaging bad guys with the intent of arresting them. Private citizens are not in that position and the likelihood any of us will ever actually need to use our firearm in self-defense is very small. I wish our world was more accepting of open carry, but it isn't and no amount of foot stomping and gnashing of teeth will fix that. I wish people possessed more common sense and a more realistic perception of gun carry. They don't and with the media representations of gun ownership and incidents like this, they aren't apt to change their views anytime soon. When those with carry permits question the logic and need for open carry, how can anyone else think that those who think carrying a firearm for self-defense would see it as a wise decision?

Also, on the "perceived threat" point, with our overly litigious society anything that is deemed even remotely irresponsible is met with a lawsuit and calls for people's jobs. Had this officer not done anything and an armed person entered the school, we'd be sitting here talking about how stupid and irresponsible people were for not taking the threat posed by an armed person walking near a school as a seriously as they should. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy for us to do, and with the alarmist mentality of people in our society, I understand why they did what they did (especially when I believe that open carry is generally a really unwise idea - just because you can doesn't mean you should).

Edited September 22, 2011 by East_TN_Patriot

[peejman]

3 weeks later you guys are still arguing about this? Good grief.

[RobertNashville]

3 weeks later you guys are still arguing about this? Good grief.

Is there a time limit on threads that I'm not aware of?

I think the "school lock down" issue is "done"...but that that doesn't mean there aren't still some good points to make.

[mikegideon]

Is there a time limit on threads that I'm not aware of?

I think the "school lock down" issue is "done"...but that that doesn't mean there aren't still some good points to make.

Yep. The open carry debate is like the "should she shave it or not" debate. It goes on forever

[peejman]

Yep. The open carry debate is like the "should she shave it or not" debate. It goes on forever

That's up for debate?

[Fallguy]

Yep. The open carry debate is like the "should she shave it or not" debate. It goes on forever

That's up for debate?

Careful guys........