Open Carry triggers school lock-down -- Police say HCP holder did nothing wrong

[RobertNashville]

...The man lives in the neighborhood, off of/near the Poplar Wood. Why should he change the way he carries just because there is a school in the neighborhood? [emphasis mine]

Well...maybe because it can (and in this case did) cause a problem???

There is a great line from the Star Trek movie "The Undiscovered Country" where the chanchelor of the Klingon Empire, making the opening speech at a peece conference said, (paraphrasing here) "Let's acknowledge that just because we can do a thing it does not follow that we must do a thing". We can legally open carry in Tennessee but just because we can doesn't mean should. Exercising some common sense and discretion about how we carry can go a long way.

Perhaps you do know but I don't know how close this man was to the school in question...I don't know, when he was seen (and which generated the call to toe police/school) if he was heading toward the school or away from it...I don't know why he decided to carry openly (maybe he thought it necessary given his medical condition/restriction he had to deal with...maybe he just "always does"..maybe he wanted to "make a statement"???

Bu however close he was and whatever direction he was heading and whatever precipitated his decision to carry openly, we all DO know his openly carrying, albeit it perfectly legal, DID cause a problem; one that could have been avoided.

Edited September 8, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Exercising some common sense and discretion about how we carry can go a long way.

What makes your idea of "common sense" any different from this?:

Common Gunsense A blog to advocate for sensible gun legislation

[RobertNashville]

What makes your idea of "common sense" any different from this?:

Common Gunsense A blog to advocate for sensible gun legislation

My common sense says you don't open carry at a time and/or in a location when there is any significant chance that it will cause a problem.

My common sense tells me that openly carrying anywhere near a school and especially during the time of day children are arriving or departing might cause a problem and therefore, probably not a good idea.

This man's decision to openly carry DID cause a problem.

We can bemoan the fact that in this society today many people out there don't like guns/hate guns/are afraid of guns/think that "guns = bad", etc. and will often overact to seeing a man with a gun...we can bemoan that until hell freezes over...I wish things were otherwise. However, to not understand or to ignore that many people are that way and to not understand or ignore the possible consequences of openly carrying in places where we might encounter such people is to be reckless and to shirk part of the responsibility that goes alone with strapping on a firearm and walking out into public with it.

One of our responsibilities we have as HCP holders is to NOT so stupid things that reflect badly on all other HCP holders. This man may have had good intentions...he may be a great guy...he may be a very responsible HCP holder in many, many respects but his openly carrying where he did and when he did certainly did cause a problem and did not help bolster the acceptance of civilians carrying a firearm in public.

[Guest nicemac]

What makes your idea of "common sense" any different from this?:

Common Gunsense A blog to advocate for sensible gun legislation

From that blog post:

"Some new information for data collected regarding 2008 deaths and methods of death show clearly that firearms are the cause of the majority of homicides and suicides."

Firearms cannot cause homicide and suicide any more than a paintbrush can create art. Why can't these people understand that PEOPLE are responsible for homicide.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

My common sense says you don't open carry at a time and/or in a location when there is any significant chance that it will cause a problem.

My common sense tells me that openly carrying anywhere near a school and especially during the time of day children are arriving or departing might cause a problem and therefore, probably not a good idea.

How about if someone said this:

My common sense says you don't carry a gun at a time and/or in a location when there is any significant chance that it will cause a problem.

My common sense tells me that carrying a gun anywhere near a school and especially during the time of day children are arriving or departing might cause a problem and therefore, probably not a good idea.

See how you are making the same arguments the anti-gun people are?

[RobertNashville]

How about if someone said this:...See how you are making the same arguments the anti-gun people are?

So you change the words, change the meaning and claim both examples express the same sentiments? Really???

In an "open carry" thread that you started, you once said...

...I don't worry too much about theories until there are facts to back them up.

In this case, we know that this person openly carrying at that time and at that place did caused a problem. That isn't "theory"; that's fact - a fact you seem absolutely opposed to acknowledging.

We can open carry in Tennessee but openly carrying can, and sometimes DOES cause a problem as it did here.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

So you change the words, change the meaning and claim both examples express the same sentiments? Really???

The meanings are exactly the same. You think it's common sense that a law abiding citizen should not OC in his neighborhood since that neighborhood is near a school. The anti-gun people think it's common sense that no one should be allowed to carry a gun period. Who's common sense is really common sense?

In an "open carry" thread that you started, you once said...

In this case, we know that this person openly carrying at that time and at that place did caused a problem. That isn't "theory"; that's fact - a fact you seem absolutely opposed to acknowledging.

We can open carry in Tennessee but openly carrying can, and sometimes DOES cause a problem as it did here.

So someone should not do something because it may cause a problem? Is that really your position? In some places seeing a black man with a white woman going about their business causes a problem. Look at the thread 808 commented in talking about the bigotry he sees because of his ethnicity. Do you really want to go there?

[Fallguy]

Just because it did cause a problem doesn't mean it is up to him to change.

Also kirkosaurus makes a good point, even though he changed the words...what some see as "common sense" about not OCing here or there or at certain times, many anti-s make the same "common sense" argument about carry period.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

In this case, we know that this person openly carrying at that time and at that place did caused a problem...

....We can open carry in Tennessee but openly carrying can, and sometimes DOES cause a problem as it did here.

Another point to be made: Everyone thinks that this incident is a problem. As a story being covered by several different news sites and even nationally on several blogs I think this is a great eye opener to the public. People are seeing several things. A normal man taking a normal walk can be carrying a gun and be "near" a school and not shoot it up. OC is legal in TN if you have a permit (something many people do not realize). The man was a law abiding, HCP holding citizen, not some crazy loon with a gun. The police actually stating that a man with a gun was following the law.. etc...etc....

I see many positives to this "problem"

Edited September 8, 2011 by kirkosaurus

[Guest nicemac]

I looked around that "common sense" blog a little more. Got more and more irritated the more I read.

They claim that it is "common sense" that guns cause homicide, suicide and violence in general. Oh, the mind of a liberal.

Look at homicide rates around the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at suicide rates around the world.

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The USA is no where near the top of either list. Actually, look at gun ownership around the world. None of the top countries lead in homicides or suicides.

List of countries by gun ownership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People kill themselves and each other without guns. Japan is at near the top of the list for suicide. Private ownership of most guns is illegal and rare. They still find a way to kill themselves at a much higher rate than in the USA. (I envision all of them by samurai sword)

Gun ownership in Honduras is 6.2 %, or about 1/15 of that of the United States. Yet the homicide rate in Honduras is 12 times that of the United States.

They can blame violence/ homicide/ suicide on guns all they want, but guns are not the problem. People are. Why can't they see that? It is COMMON SENSE!

[Guest kirkosaurus]

I looked around that "common sense" blog a little more. Got more and more irritated the more I read.

Sorry for linking to it. My blood has boiled so much reading that kind of crap that I don't even bother anymore.

[RobertNashville]

Just because it did cause a problem doesn't mean it is up to him to change.

I don't think anyone said that it was and whether he does or doesn't change is up to him. However, I think he should.

Also kirkosaurus makes a good point, even though he changed the words...what some see as "common sense" about not OCing here or there or at certain times, many anti-s make the same "common sense" argument about carry period.

Well, changing someones words and then claiming the sentence says the same thing is bad form in my opinion. In any case, my"common sense" is based on logic and facts; their "common sense" is based on fear, hatred, ignorance and emotion.

Edited September 8, 2011 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

We got anonymous "suspicious person’s" calls all the time; we responded and checked the person out. That’s what cops do and Police Departments advertise on TV (Crime Stoppers) for citizens to make those calls.

If you look suspicious to someone (or they don’t think people should carry guns) they will call. Hopefully we will never see a time when someone sitting at a telephone will decide if someone they can’t see is a threat or not.

The cops checked the guy and said he was okay. This was a non-event.

[RobertNashville]

Another point to be made: Everyone thinks that this incident is a problem. As a story being covered by several different news sites and even nationally on several blogs I think this is a great eye opener to the public. People are seeing several things. A normal man taking a normal walk can be carrying a gun and be "near" a school and not shoot it up. OC is legal in TN if you have a permit (something many people do not realize). The man was a law abiding, HCP holding citizen, not some crazy loon with a gun. The police actually stating that a man with a gun was following the law.. etc...etc....

I see many positives to this "problem"

You may think there are positives here but that's pure conjecture on your part. At lest as likely, and admittedly my own conjecture, is that this incident will simply provide more fodder to feed the hysteria about firearms among the anti-gun crowd and could even serve the interests of those who would like to see open carry made illegal as it is in so many states.

And I doubt that the school administration and students who were locked down see positives and I don't see any positives about the tax dollars...some of which were mine, spent on the response to the "man with a gun near a school" call.

The only "positive" I see here is that it gives armchair quarterbacks with nothing better to do, something to talk about on the internet.

Edited September 8, 2011 by RobertNashville

[tt0511]

[RobertNashville]

The meanings are exactly the same.

They are not the same...you change the words; you change the meaning.

You think it's common sense that a law abiding citizen should not OC in his neighborhood since that neighborhood is near a school. The anti-gun people think it's common sense that no one should be allowed to carry a gun period. Who's common sense is really common sense?

You comparison is flawed; mine is common sense; theirs is not.

My position...my "common sense", whether you agree with my position or not, is based on facts, logic, and experience. The "anti-gun people's" position...their "common sense" isn't "common sense" at all because it is based on hatred, ignorance and fear and they ignore the abundant facts and experience that unequivocally demonstrates how illogical and incorrect their position is.

So someone should not do something because it might cause a problem? Is that really your position?

Well...let me see here...I think my answer would be YES; THAT'S MY POSITION.

Every situation has to be judged based on its own facts but in general, I think not causing a problem is better than causing one. Do you really find that an odd position to take?

In some places seeing a black man with a white woman going about their business causes a problem. Look at the thread 808 commented in talking about the bigotry he sees because of his ethnicity. Do you really want to go there?

I'm not the one "going there" and why you seem to want to is difficult to fathom.

[Fallguy]

Wait....are you saying your common sense (based on logic, fact etc...) says those who OC should change what they do because of the common sense (based on emotion, fear etc...) of the anti-s?

[RobertNashville]

Wait....are you saying your common sense (based on logic, fact etc...) says those who OC should change what they do because of the common sense (based on emotion, fear etc...) of the anti-s?

I'm saying...don't cause problems that can be avoided and don't provide the "anti-gun" radicals ammunition.

Sometimes, it's good to make a "statement"...sometimes it's good to keep a low profile...common sense helps you know which is best.

[durtyzulu]

Who in TN ****s themselves when they see someone open carry? Apparently not RUTHERFORD CO law enforcement. Lesson learned? People are stupid, cover it up.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Wait....are you saying your common sense (based on logic, fact etc...) says those who OC should change what they do because of the common sense (based on emotion, fear etc...) of the anti-s?

And his argument falls on it's face...

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Who in TN ****s themselves when they see someone open carry? Apparently not RUTHERFORD CO law enforcement. Lesson learned? People are stupid, cover it up.

Why should I cover it up because people are stupid? Holy crap...is this the kind of arguments we have against OC?

[QuietDan]

Why should I cover it up because people are stupid? Holy crap...is this the kind of arguments we have against OC?

Yeah, pretty much! People can be pretty darn stupid. It's a part of our reality. Shaking your fist at stupid people is like shaking your fist at the rain.

Don't want to be simplistic, but:

You, kirkosaurus, are probably one of the sheep-dogs.

You know the old formula about wolves, sheep-dogs, & sheep.

The sheep-dogs are actually protecting the sheep from the wolves.

But, all the sheep know is that the wolves have teeth and they're afraid of them.

The sheep-dogs have teeth too, that's the only way they can fight the wolves.

But if the sheep see the sheep-dogs' teeth, they're afraid of them too!

The sheep see the teeth, and they think it's baaaaaaad!

The sheep are afraid of EVERYTHING. And, the sheep, for the most part, will always be sheep. It'd be great if the sheep-dogs could teach the sheep to not be afraid of everything, but for the most part, it's a lost cause.

Don't scare the sheep, it makes them scatter. Don't scare the sheep, it makes it harder to protect them from the wolves.

Best wishes to you.

Edited September 9, 2011 by QuietDan

[tnhawk]

I noticed two men with open carry weapons today at a Sam's. I didn't notice any reaction from other customers or employees in the store.

[RobertNashville]

Why should I cover it up because people are stupid? Holy crap...is this the kind of arguments we have against OC?

There are a number of other arguments that can be made against OC; all of which have been made. In fact the subject of OC vs CC has beaten to death on more than one occasion on this and many other forums and are generally about as useful as counting grains of sand on a beach.

Carry openly to your heart's content but do so understanding what Tennessee law says about it and the possible consequences. Carrying openly without regard for where you'll be/who will see you, etc. is what causes things like the subject of this thread to happen.

[RobertNashville]

And his argument falls on it's face...

Wishful thinking I think

Edited September 9, 2011 by RobertNashville