Federal ban at medical facilities????

[Sky King]

Yesterday I was escorting my wife to a doctor's appointment. The medical building was adjacent to Methodist North Hospital in Memphis which as many of may have seen the posts in other threads indicating that Methodist Hospitals in Memphis have recently posted their facilities. This building IS NOT part of the hospital facility or property. As I dropped my wife off at the door, I noted that there was NO posting at this facility and there was an armed security person standing out front. I went and parked the car and started to go in. The security person apparently was able to determine I was carrying, (I guess the summer weather and short sleeve shirts to not prevent the weapon from showing a bit of a bulge). He approached me, I must say he was very polite, and stated that weapons were not allowed in this building. I politely engaged him and stated that I saw no posting. He advised that he had asked the management to post the property IF they were going to ban weapons but they had declined. I stated that state law allows property owners to ban but they are required to post. He responded that it is FEDERAL LAW prohibiting weapons at ANY medical facility including hospitals, clinics and even private doctors offices. He said that includes your eye doctor and dentist. I told him I had never heard of this but would inquire.

I feel he is wrong. A federal ban of this scope certainly would not exist without SOME degree of common knowlege. Does ANYBODY know of ANY federal code that imposes such a ban OR code that could be read and be mistakenly understood to impose such a ban?

[Fallguy]

There is no such federal law to my knowledge. Sounds like he was just using that to end the discussion. If there was such a federal law, why would he be asking them to post the building per state law?

The trouble is even though a place is supposed to post they can still ask you to leave if you are armed, and if you don't you can be charged with trespassing.

[zapfbroad]

No federal law, doctors/dentists carry in clinics sometimes. Receptionists too in some smaller town facilities. I'm sure it's 99.87% concealed carry but there's no law. I love moments when people convey lies to end discussions. Grr.

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[daddyo]

Sounds like this security guard was determined to make you submit to his authoritah and was willing to lie to make it happen.

[zapfbroad]

+1 for authoritah!

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[zapfbroad]

But really like Fallguy said.. u could had TCA printed out with a lawyer standin there to read it & the guy could still say you're a troublemaker & this is private property & you gots to hit the road

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[Defender]

It wouldn't surprise me one damn bit to discover that Obama's health care bill has a provision in it that does just that-ban guns! If it don't, then it's ONLY becauswe they forgot to include it.

[Guest PapaB]

Somebody's confusing teaching hospitals, like Vanderbilt, with all medical facilities. I'll give the guard the benefit of the doubt. He wasn't lying, he was just an ignorant, mindless fool that repeated everything he was told as though it were absolutely true.

There, I stuck up for him. :biglol:

[Fallguy]

Somebody's confusing teaching hospitals, like Vanderbilt, with all medical facilities. I'll give the guard the benefit of the doubt. He wasn't lying, he was just an ignorant, mindless fool that repeated everything he was told as though it were absolutely true.

There, I stuck up for him. :biglol:

Even the federal law against carry in school zones doesn't apply to permit holders of that state though.

[Guest PapaB]

Even the federal law against carry in school zones doesn't apply to permit holders of that state though.

Thanks for the clarification Fallguy, my brain just thought law when it should have thought State law.

I hereby recind the post where I stuck up for the guard.

[monkeylizard]

Is there still a federal law against carry in school zones? I thought the SCOTUS killed that with US vs. Lopez in 1995.

[Guest bkelm18]

Is there still a federal law against carry in school zones?

No.

[Guest 270win]

There is no fed law against carrying at a hospital or med facility. I carry there all the time. Many states have laws against carrying at schools, including Tennessee. Some states it is legal for those with licenses, like Alabama.

[Dolomite_supafly]

He can ask you to leave or bar your entrance if you refused to disarm. Even as a HCP holder your right to carry doesn't trump the property owner's right to ask you to leave the property. Property owners can ask you to leave for any or no reason at all and you have to leave otherwise you are tresspassing.

Whether they are posted or not you can't refuse to leave when asked to or whether you are armed or not. It is their choice to allow you to carry on their property.

Dolomite

[daddyo]

He can ask you to leave or bar your entrance if you refused to disarm. Even as a HCP holder your right to carry doesn't trump the property owner's right to ask you to leave the property. Property owners can ask you to leave for any or no reason at all and you have to leave otherwise you are tresspassing.

Whether they are posted or not you can't refuse to leave when asked to or whether you are armed or not. It is their choice to allow you to carry on their property.

Dolomite

No one's disputing that. But the very fact that the management had declined to post seems to indicate that they don't have a problem with someone legally carrying a firearm. Sounds to me that the security guard took it upon himself to ban something that he might not have had the authority to. Would I have complied? Yes. But as soon as my business was finished, I would have contacted management and gotten clarification.

[Dolomite_supafly]

No one's disputing that. But the very fact that the management had declined to post seems to indicate that they don't have a problem with someone legally carrying a firearm. Sounds to me that the security guard took it upon himself to ban something that he might not have had the authority to. Would I have complied? Yes. But as soon as my business was finished, I would have contacted management and gotten clarification.

I would contact management.

People often say let sleeping dogs lie but I like to push questionable issues. I have asked for a decision and sometimes it doesn't go our way and sometimes it does. I just want to be clear in who I will support and who I will not. I will not support those who seem to "fence sit" just as much as I will not support those who are legally posted.

Dolomite

[Guest 270win]

Most property owners don't think about people carrying guns legally because not a lot of people do. It is not a big issue. If a property owner sees someone who is not going along with the behavior he likes, then he just asks the person to stop the behavior or leave. It is a lot easier to do that for the property owner than to stick ugly signs up.

The best thing to do is to get a good holster and small gun and hide it well. Dont tell anyone. Don't let anyone know. That is what I do and it has worked well for me. I don't care about anyone's opinion as long as I am legal.

[Oh Shoot]

Is there still a federal law against carry in school zones? I thought the SCOTUS killed that with US vs. Lopez in 1995.

No.

Yes, there is, BK.

Law was revised after Lopez case, then upheld to this day. Another bastardization of the "commerce clause".

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- OS

Edited September 1, 2011 by OhShoot
added link

[Guest bkelm18]

Yes, there is, BK.

Law was revised after Lopez case, then upheld to this day. Another bastardization of the "commerce clause".

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- OS

Exemptions are made to permit holders if state law allows. There is not a "blanket" ban on firearms on school grounds.

[Oh Shoot]

Exemptions are made to permit holders if state law allows. There is not a "blanket" ban on firearms on school grounds.

True, doesn't affect HCP holders here. But law exists which seemed to be the question.

Also, with the specific mention of "license", would seem that permitless open carry is not exempt, for all the states that allow that, or permitless concealed carry, in the few states that allow that.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

True, doesn't affect HCP holders here. But law exists which seemed to be the question.

Also, with the specific mention of "license", would seem that permitless open carry is not exempt, for all the states that allow that, or permitless concealed carry, in the few states that allow that.

- OS

The law also seems to do away with reciprocity as the BATFE has stated that in order to carry on school grounds, you must have a license from that particular state.

[Oh Shoot]

The law also seems to do away with reciprocity as the BATFE has stated that in order to carry on school grounds, you must have a license from that particular state.

Excellent point.

Another: in vehicle, even non permit holders must have gun unloaded and in locked box or rack, which goes well beyond most states' requirements.

It's a "add on" criminal charge law for the most part, or one that can be applied after a "reasonable suspicion" stop. And has been used.

- OS

[monkeylizard]

Thanks for the link to the GFSZA. It looks like it only applies to elementary and secondary schools. So it's still a non-issue for teaching hospitals which would be part of a university system. Right?

[Guest bkelm18]

Thanks for the link to the GFSZA. It looks like it only applies to elementary and secondary schools. So it's still a non-issue for teaching hospitals which would be part of a university system. Right?

If it's part of the University, it's a no-go (at least in TN).

[gl19gobang]

The guard had a little bit of barney fife syndrome

No one's disputing that. But the very fact that the management had declined to post seems to indicate that they don't have a problem with someone legally carrying a firearm. Sounds to me that the security guard took it upon himself to ban something that he might not have had the authority to. Would I have complied? Yes. But as soon as my business was finished, I would have contacted management and gotten clarification.